Jump to content

Stargazers Lounge Uses Cookies

Like most websites, SGL uses cookies in order to deliver a secure, personalised service, to provide social media functions and to analyse our traffic. Continued use of SGL indicates your acceptance of our cookie policy.

sgl_imaging_challenge_banner_lunar_landings.thumb.jpg.b50378d0845690d8a03305a49923eb40.jpg

Piero

Ideas about a Berlebach UNI tripod

Recommended Posts

In the end of July I ordered an AOK AYOII mount from FLO which should arrive soon, depending on the time schedule of Mr. Beat Kohler. :) 

I've been thinking for years (!) about getting a Berlebach tripod at some point and I might be close to take a decision soon! 

The payload will be about 5.5kg (OTA + accessories) + 3.4kg mount head, so 9kg. Right now, I use an SW AZ4 with 1.75" steel legs and I am glad that I found this promptly in the s/h market (thanks Chris! @Lockie ) just after the Tak FC 100 arrived, as it has given me more knowledge and experience about these astronomical tripods (before I was using a photo video tripod with the TV60). The 1.75" steel legs do a proper job at attenuating vibrations in less than 1 second, and this is a welcome feature as I tend to enjoy observing at high magnifications rather often. The weight of this tripod is 5.6kg, therefore a replacement should cope vibrations at least as this tripod. The other lesson that I learnt using the AZ4 is the observing position. With the TV60 and video tripod with central column, I used to observe standing and adjust the height of the telescope using the central column rather than the legs. This works great to me. However, the Tak 100 is a different beast compared to the much shorter TV60. An extension pillar would help to raise the telescope, but it could also cause some difficulties when observing low targets. After learning from some very valuable posts by Shaun ( @Pig ) on how he observes using the same tripod, I eventually managed to take advantage of a sitting position with a short camping stool chair and fully retracted tripod legs. Of course this requires to move to a kneeling position when observing at the zenith, and a slightly taller tripod when observing rather low targets. Can this be optimised a bit more? Well, an adjustable chair would do the trick of course, but it also requires an adjustment of the person position every time the chair is adjusted. It works though, and many use this approach. 

Given the weight of my setup, the length of the Tak100, and my observing tastes, in my opinion an UNI tripod would be the best option. But which one? The UNI18 and 28 look great, but their weights are overkill for the Tak FC100. Somehow I still want something that is reasonably portable, but sturdy. Also, I accepted to observe in a sitting position, so the extra height of these tripods is not really necessary for me. A Berlebach that attracted my attention for medium size refractors to be used in sitting position is the UNI 9 (https://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=details&id=241&sprache=english). The adjustable column can be handy for preventing the tube to hit the tripod and regulating the eyepiece height rather than adjusting the chair. The idea comes from this Andreas on CN: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/254938-which-berlebach-tripod/page-2#entry3244045 . Andreas uses an UNI 19, AYOII fitted with 3/8" connection, and a TEC140 f7.

Now a bit of maths.. 

- UNI19 leg length: 970mm, UNI9 leg length: 710mm; UNI19-UNI9 legs: 260mm.

- the leg spread stopper fixes the angle at 23deg, or 0.40rad. 

- the minimum tripod height using the leg spread stopper is 970mm*cos(0.40)=893mm (UNI19) and 710mm*cos(0.40)=654mm (UNI9); UNI19-UNI9 minimum height at 23deg: 893mm-654mm=239mm

- TakFC100 f.l.: 740mm, TEC140 f.l.: 980mm. TEC140-TakFC100 f.l= 240mm, or 120mm at each side.

- AYOII height is 244mm in 3.8" mode, and 302mm in M10 mode. AYOII_M10-AYOII_3/8=58mm.

- Difference between TEC140+UNI19+AYOII_3/8” and Tak100+UNI9+AYOII_m10 in terms of eyepiece position at corresponding angles: 239mm-120mm-58mm=61mm.

- TakFC100+UNI9+AYOII_M10 leg extension required for having the eyepiece at the same height as TEC140+UNI19+AYOII_3/8” with no leg extension: 61mm/cos(0.4)=66mm (feasible!). 

 

Also, the UNI 9 weighs 5.6kg, similarly to the SW 1.75" steel tripod, but is only 71cm when retracted meaning that it could be placed into a large suitcase for travelling.

I haven't decided yet, but this is my current idea: UNI 9 with M10 thread, leg spread stopper (https://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=details&id=170&sprache=english), and leg brackets. 

 

What do you think?  Is it a crazy idea? 

Edited by Piero
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As you know, I have just received my UNI 29C. It's basically the stand-up variant of your idea.  :happy11:

I am convinced that the UNI with the column is sturdy enough for your plan - and so, it would seem, is the guy with the TEC. :grin:

Not sure about airline travel with it. But if you can get it in a case in the hold, why not? (Mine is for car trips and domestic use.)

On the other hand, you could also wait until the AYO arrives and get some experience with it before deciding...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Mike @iPeace ! :) 

About airline travelling, I was not thinking about holidays, but rather the case if I ever have to move away (by plane) due to job relocation. If so, I won't have to sell the tripod which would be a shame, and the tripod can be transported using a checked luggage.

Edited by Piero
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems like a sound idea to me. The centre column looks very nicely engineered, it seems fairly compact when retracted, and it states that vibration suppression is excellent. I should imagine the Tak would do very well on it :) 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Piero said:

Thanks Mike @iPeace ! :) 

About airline travelling, I was not thinking about holidays, but rather the case if I ever have to move away (by plane) due to job relocation. If so, I won't have to sell the tripod which would be a shame, and the tripod can be transported using a checked luggage.

Ah, well, the tripod can be couriered if necessary in extremis...

If it's not for regular travel, I guess, depending on the likelihood of relocation, I would go for the UNI 19 / centre column solution displayed by our friend with the TEC. Not that I think you would regret your UNI 9 idea, but you may get marginally more enjoyment - that solution seems to be a proven one - and perhaps better resale value?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, iPeace said:

Ah, well, the tripod can be couriered if necessary in extremis...

If it's not for regular travel, I guess, depending on the likelihood of relocation, I would go for the UNI 19 / centre column solution displayed by our friend with the TEC. Not that I think you would regret your UNI 9 idea, but you may get marginally more enjoyment - that solution seems to be a proven one - and perhaps better resale value?

You are right about the resale value, but don't plan to get refractors of larger aperture. If/when I'll step up, it will be something like a Dobson 12". :) 

Therefore, this tripod would be a long term purchase, as well as the AYOII and the Tak FC100. 

Observing in a sitting position is fine with me as long as I don't have to assume weird uncomfortable positions because the eyepiece height changes too much. This is also true for standing. Therefore, a central column is the way to go for me. :) I remember how practical it was with the TV60.. :icon_biggrin:

Weight is another concern. At 15kg (w/ UNI 9), I can still carry the whole telescope around if I need to, whilst at nearly 20kg (w/ UNI 19) things become a bit trickier in the dark, particularly give the larger size.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Piero said:

Weight is another concern. At 15kg (w/ UNI 9), I can still carry the whole telescope around if I need to, whilst at nearly 20kg (w/ UNI 19) things become a bit trickier in the dark, particularly give the larger size.

That should clinch it, then. Your selection would seem to be an optimal combination of size and strength, as compact as you can go but still seriously sturdy. You will really appreciate the UNI's legs - that sounds wrong, but let's move on :p - and the geared centre column is guaranteed to be in a different league when compared with the experience of using the TV-60 on a photo tripod. Just like you, I have grown used to that and wanted the 'heavy duty' variant. Given that you are fine with sitting down to observe - and I enjoy that as well - you will love the UNI.

:icon_biggrin:

Edited by iPeace
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure you can get the column with a M10 bolt, though...?   :icon_scratch:

Ah, yes, you can.  :icon_biggrin:

Edited by iPeace
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, iPeace said:

Not sure you can get the column with a M10 bolt, though...?   :icon_scratch:

According to their website (https://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=details&id=241&sprache=english), I can select the M10 thread.  

 

p.s. I updated the maths as it was just a quick approximation before.  

Edited by Piero
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, iPeace said:

Yes, I concur.  :happy11:

Out of curiosity, what is the difference between the UNI 29 and the UNI 29 C? They both have the central column as far as I can see.. 

https://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=details&id=246&sprache=english (UNI29C)

https://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=details&id=243&sprache=english (UNI29)

Is it only that the C version comes with `leg spread stops` on top of the legs? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Piero said:

Out of curiosity, what is the difference between the UNI 29 and the UNI 29 C? They both have the central column as far as I can see.. 

https://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=details&id=246&sprache=english (UNI29C)

https://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=details&id=243&sprache=english (UNI29)

Is it only that the C version comes with `leg spread stops` on top of the legs? 

That's the only difference I have found. You can configure the 29 to have leg spread stops, and the price becomes identical to the 29C.

Incidentally, I informed about installing the standard spread stopper, in particular whether it would clash with the central column, and didn't get a specific answer, just that the 'C' stops were preferable because they give multiple angle options. I was leaning that way anyway, so just went with it. If you want the standard spreader instead, it may be worth getting a specific answer.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, iPeace said:

That's the only difference I have found. You can configure the 29 to have leg spread stops, and the price becomes identical to the 29C.

Incidentally, I informed about installing the standard spread stopper, in particular whether it would clash with the central column, and didn't get a specific answer, just that the 'C' stops were preferable because they give multiple angle options. I was leaning that way anyway, so just went with it. If you want the standard spreader instead, it may be worth getting a specific answer.

 

That's a good idea. Thanks for the advice! :)  I will ask them to be sure. 

mm..the column is 500mm long (with 390mm adjustment range).

- How long is the segment from the floor to the top of the first clamp? 

- how large is the clamp vertically?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Piero said:

 

That's a good idea. Thanks for the advice! :)  I will ask them to be sure. 

mm..the column is 500mm long (with 390mm adjustment range).

- How long is the segment from the floor to the top of the first clamp? 

- how large is the clamp vertically?

DSC_1218.thumb.JPG.66990bf2edc41eb4bd70849d7167a8f4.JPG

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, iPeace said:

And you're sure you're OK with observing near the zenith?

on the website they say that the tripod maximum height with legs at 20deg is 1290mm (with extended column), The Ayo is 310mm tall. Roughtly the eyepiece position at the zenith should be at around 1.1m. This should be fine with a camping stool. In my SW tripod, it is way lower right now.. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Piero said:

on the website they say that the tripod maximum height with legs at 20deg is 1290mm (with extended column), The Ayo is 310mm tall. Roughtly the eyepiece position at the zenith should be at around 1.1m. This should be fine with a camping stool. In my SW tripod, it is way lower right now.. 

1290mm (UNI9 with fully extended legs and fully extended central column, angle at 20deg) + 310mm (AYOII_M10)=1600mm. TAK clamp-to-eyepiece distance is about 400mm. The adjustment range of the central column is 390mm.

Eyepiece position when telescope at 90 degrees altitude:

- central column fully extracted: 1600mm-400mm = ~1200mm 

- central column fully retracted: 1600mm-390mm-400mm = ~810mm

Eyepiece position when telescope at 0 degrees altitude: 

- central column fully extracted: 1600mm 

- central column fully retracted: 1600mm-390mm = ~1210mm

 

If the maths is correct, it should be okay to use with a camping stool and the legs extracted according to the stool height.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

UNI 9 
- Legs fully extended, sitting position using camping stool
- Leg spread stopper likely not possible, grab 'n' go

UNI19
- Legs fully extended, standing position
- Legs fully retracted, sitting position using camping stool
- Leg spread stopper possible, grunt 'n' go

:unsure:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Piero said:

UNI 9 
- Legs fully extended, sitting position using camping stool
- Leg spread stopper likely not possible, grab 'n' go

UNI19
- Legs fully extended, standing position
- Legs fully retracted, sitting position using camping stool
- Leg spread stopper possible, grunt 'n' go

:unsure:

The "C" leg stops are nice - I don't think you'd miss the central stopper.

On the other hand, how far do you actually want to 'go'? Neither option is a bicycle ride, unless you pull a cart along (this could work!).

So you might not want to carry the tripod around with the scope mounted on it. You may need to make two trips to deploy and take down. Is this a compromise you would make in favor of the actual observing enjoyment?  Maybe carry the scope on your back, and the tripod in its bag?

You can win this - just decide where the finish line is.

:happy11:

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

alls well said!

Edited by Piero
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Berlebach is currently offering 10% discount until Jan. 6th. Check out their home page for the 'discount code'.

:happy11:

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

mm.. that is teasing! :thumbsup: 

thanks a lot for the heads up! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Piero said:

I had an exchange of email with Berlebach today 

And....?  :icon_biggrin:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.