M33, a first for me!

[estwing]

In good dark sky some are neither faint or fuzzy, get out there!

[furrysocks2]

2 minutes ago, estwing said:

In good dark sky some are neither faint or fuzzy, get out there!

Looking good later!

[Stu]

4 hours ago, John said:

Calvin / estwing's data demonstrates the massive difference between the published integrated magnitude figure for M33 of mag 5.7 and the actual brightness of the extended surface of the galaxy and that provides the observing challenge.

I guess even that figure is an average of the brightness over the whole extent, so the core will be a little easier and the outer arms harder.

I've seen NGC604 in an 8" SCT from a reasonably dark sky (Mag 20.5 ish), and had lovely views of M101 in my 16" at SGL10. I seem to remember one night was better than the others due to better transparency.

[John]

I can recall seeing M101 clearly in my 50mm finder at the last SGL star party that I went to.

NGC 604 is visible in my ED120 from home on a good night - it's quite a tight spot of light compared with the sprawl of it's host galaxy.

[Stu]

3 minutes ago, John said:

NGC 604 is visible in my ED120 from home on a good night - it's quite a tight spot of light compared with the sprawl of it's host galaxy.

Lucky you John! No hope of seeing M33 from here at all  

[chiltonstar]

I always find M33 and M101 rather a conundrum - we are so used to seeing images of them that we tend to be over-optimistic about what we are likely to actually see. I personally find M101 a lot harder than M33 because of it lying to the N, where I have a lot of LP - mine is what is euphemistically called an "urban-rural" location. On really good nights, I've seen M33 with the naked eye from home when it's overhead, and it is often very obvious in a 50mm finder and quite nice with my ED80. M101 only really shows well from here on exceptional nights, and when it is high in the sky.

From a dark site in Cornwall this Autumn, both were superb in my 15x70s, and again M33 visible with the naked eye.

Chris

[Timebandit]

1 hour ago, estwing said:

In good dark sky some are neither faint or fuzzy, get out there!

 

1 hour ago, Stu said:

Lucky you John! No hope of seeing M33 from here at all  

 

30 minutes ago, chiltonstar said:

I always find M33 and M101 rather a conundrum - we are so used to seeing images of them that we tend to be over-optimistic about what we are likely to actually see. I personally find M101 a lot harder than M33 because of it lying to the N, where I have a lot of LP - mine is what is euphemistically called an "urban-rural" location.  

From a dark site in Cornwall this Autumn, both were superb in my 15x70s, and again M33 visible with the naked eye.

Chris

 

 

 

This is why a lot of the time they are faint and fuzzy. Due to light pollution to which a lot of us have no control over, it does make a lot of DSO hard work. I do most of my observation from home to which in 5 mins I am up and running. Scope out of shed , eyepiece in. This is just a such an easy and quick way to get some time in at the eyepiece. But as a consequence of this convenience way to observe then unfortunately light pollution is a factor that can not be escaped, and those galaxy's certainly are faint and fuzzy. But I do get some enjoyment out of the challenge of locating them and as long as I can get a reasonable image then it's been a worthwhile exercise.

Dark sites are really the answer. Time and distance factors do come into this as well as the weather. The last two times out to a reasonable dark site in the region of Brecon ,then just cloud and rain. So disappointing when all the effort was made. The only consolation was a visit to the chippy on the way home to cheer me up a bit?. Then I get back home and reasonable clear sky's , typical?

I certainly have not given up on dark site trips as these dark sky's do pay dividends when DSO do pop instead of faint and fuzzy. But I wish the UK weather would be a bit more forgiving, but something we have no control over.  Dark black ink sky's are what we are all looking for when DSO ,and when they are there then a feast to the eye's are the reward?

 

 

[chiltonstar]

43 minutes ago, Timebandit said:

 

Dark sites are really the answer. Time and distance factors do come into this as well as the weather. The last two times out to a reasonable dark site in the region of Brecon ,then just cloud and rain. So disappointing when all the effort was made. The only consolation was a visit to the chippy on the way home to cheer me up a bit?. Then I get back home and reasonable clear sky's , typical?

I certainly have not given up on dark site trips as these dark sky's do pay dividends when DSO do pop instead of faint and fuzzy. But I wish the UK weather would be a bit more forgiving, but something we have no control over.  Dark black ink sky's are what we are all looking for when DSO ,and when they are there then a feast to the eye's are the reward?

 

 

The map of the UK showing sky darkness combined with no. of clear nights per year is an interesting one and says it all........it tends to show of course that those wonderful dark skies are rarely available because of cloud, and that often the best location is one with less dark skies but more clear nights per year (obviously it is different if you actually live somewhere dark). What it will be like for sky darkness with 100 million people squatting on this small patch of land beggars belief.... 

Chris

[estwing]

I understand about the clear skies in dark places ratio but I'm a galaxy hunter and there's only one place to do that. Finding them in LP skies is not only very hard but demoralising. Draco triplet last month and there was clearly spiral action going on, impossible from anywhere else.

M101, M33 etc are great catches from anywhere but for those special views effort has to be made!

[faulksy]

what a brilliant topic and congrats furrysocks. go somewhere dark as you are and m33 is brilliant, as estwing(cal) says m101 is stunning in dark skys seeing the HA regions blows your furry socks off and is our transparency indicator

[furrysocks2]

57 minutes ago, faulksy said:

what a brilliant topic and congrats furrysocks. go somewhere dark as you are and m33 is brilliant, as estwing(cal) says m101 is stunning in dark skys seeing the HA regions blows your furry socks off and is our transparency indicator

Loading the scope into the car just now, 35mm and 16mm in hand, better check how to find M101 before I leave.

Edit: looks like M101 is going to be about as low as it can get, but I won't be hanging around...

[faulksy]

23 hours ago, furrysocks2 said:

Loading the scope into the car just now, 35mm and 16mm in hand, better check how to find M101 before I leave.

Edit: looks like M101 is going to be about as low as it can get, but I won't be hanging around...

i love it when people go to proper dark skys and not ones they claim to be dark because they don't know any better. good hunting mate and clear skies

[faulksy]

On 12/9/2017 at 15:20, Stu said:

Lucky you John! No hope of seeing M33 from here at all  

go somewere proper dark stu and you will see it, or come with us and look through our dobs. make sure you bring some elastics though

[furrysocks2]

7 minutes ago, faulksy said:

i love it when people go to proper dark skys and not ones they claim to be dark because they don't know any better. good hunting mate and clear skies

 it wasn't proper dark, and I didn't know any better 

Cheers, though.

[Stu]

23 minutes ago, faulksy said:

go somewere proper dark stu and you will see it, or come with us and look through our dobs. make sure you bring some elastics though

Seen it a few times Mike, just not from my back garden like John!

Perhaps in a few years I'll find it a bit easier to get away for a dob mob weekend!  

[John]

It's all very well saying go to properly dark skies but some of us have to make do with what we have or end up being anti-social towards families etc. It's just a hobby

[Stu]

7 minutes ago, John said:

It's all very well saying go to properly dark skies but some of us have to make do with what we have or end up being anti-social towards families etc. It's just a hobby

I totally agree John. That has been my position for a while.

I absolutely support and agree with the opinions that dark skies give the best views, and are worthwhile seeking out.

I equally absolutely refuse to give up my hobby because of light pollution and I modify my budget and the objects I view so that I can carry on whilst juggling a young family and work commitments.

I won't ever subscribe to the 'dark skies or nothing' opinion, because that would mean giving up.

[furrysocks2]

I don't know how my garden is but I'm tending to think I'm starting from "ok"... I can always see seven in the Pleiades, orientation of milky way is always evident, and I can typically identify M31 naked eye, very rarely does it go unseen.

I've found a dark site 1h30 away, I'll give it a go... but for the family's sake and for mine, I'll need to pick my time carefully.

[faulksy]

i understand what your saying and i do view from home a lot. we only meet up when the forecast is good and we are around new moon. the rest of the time i dedicate my time to my family and i don't go out socializing. my occasional free time is with the mob which isn't as often as we would like 

[John]

16 minutes ago, faulksy said:

i understand what your saying and i do view from home a lot. we only meet up when the forecast is good and we are around new moon. the rest of the time i dedicate my time to my family and i don't go out socializing. my occasional free time is with the mob which isn't as often as we would like 

Well I do enjoy reading the dob mob reports so I hope you do manage to get together reasonably often

 

[Stu]

1 hour ago, furrysocks2 said:

I've found a dark site 1h30 away, I'll give it a go... but for the family's sake and for mine, I'll need to pick my time carefully.

That's about the same for us to get somewhere dark. We've been once so far, need to get back soon but biggest challenges are coordinating availability, weather and not being too knackered!

[furrysocks2]

3 minutes ago, Stu said:

That's about the same for us to get somewhere dark. We've been once so far, need to get back soon but biggest challenges are coordinating availability, weather and not being too knackered!

Also, the one I've found may not be passable - weather dependent. I lost my 4wd this year. Second choice is an even steeper access road.

[kirkster501]

I've never seen any detail in M33 from this country, even in a 16" Dob I couldn't see anything.

In the Oman desert I saw incredible detail in the spiral arms even with a 8" dob.

[furrysocks2]

Bagged M33 in the 8x60s last night. Couldn't get M101 though.