High power eyepiece for TAK100DL

[festoon]

I am looking to purchase a high power eyepiece to compliment my lovely TAK FC100DL

My question is - if money was no object, what eyepiece would you choose for looking at objects like Jupiter at high magnification?

I fully understand that the limit will be the seeing conditions, however, what eyepiece could you suggest to give the least distorted views

Currently my best views have been with a x2.5 powermate and my 10mm radian - but I suspect I could go one better and reduce scatter with other options.

[Moonshane]

I really like my Delites. A step up from the Radians in several departments. 4mm would replicate what you have and 3mm would be a step up in magnification.

[Doc]

If money is no object then I would imagine the 4mm ZAO 11 or the 5mm and 2.5mm Pentax XO's.

[rwilkey]

I rate the William Optics SPL 6mm very highly and would recommend this to you, also very comfortable to use.

[alan potts]

Rather like Doc answer but finding them may well be difficult even with the money at hand. As Shane says De-lites have a very good press though I have not actually bought any myself yet. I would say Delos which I do (4.5mm& 3.5mm) have at the short end are also very good indeed.

Also do not forget Pentax XW's 3.5 & 5mm

Alan

[DirkSteele]

I am a big fan of the short focal length Delos as well, and as others have said, the Delites also have a great reputation but I have not been fortunate enough to use one yet.  If you can deal with the small apparent field of view, one of the TMB supermonocentric EPs are reputed to have incredible planetary performance, though only available second hand now.  I have had quick goes from time to time with them and they are great, but it can feel like looking through a drinking straw.

[AstroSylv1]

Takahashi TOE and Vixen HR or Fujiyama Orthos

[Piero]

As you explicitly mentioned Jupiter, I would go for something giving 150x-200x, which on your f9 telescope is 6mm-4.5mm.  

If you don't need spectacles and are fine with tight eye relief eyepieces, then a couple of orthos would do the job. If you need glasses or you like more field of view, you could go for Pentax XWs or TV Delos or TV delites. A high quality zoom eyepiece + barlow can cover all all of these focal lengths. The Zeiss Zoom Diascope 20-75x + Baader VIP do an excellent job. 

For lunar observing, you can push the mag a bit higher than Jupiter, seeing permitting. The best high power eyepiece I have tried is the Vixen HR 2.4mm. That's a gem. 

On your telescope, it gives 375x, so you need to be in steady territory to take advantage of this and it is more for Lunar / tight double stars in my opinion. There are nights for this though.

I'd love to know how whether the Takahashi TOE are really at the level of the Vixne HR. If so, the 4mm could be interesting on your scope for observing Saturn, I reckon. 

[Timebandit]

 

If money was no object then it would have to be the ZAO and or the TMB super mono for sharpness of image. That is if you can live with the narrow fov and tight eye relief.

If in the event you wish to have comfortable viewing,but with great optics at Ortho level then I would get the Pentax XW 3.5 , 5 ,7 to suit viewing conditions. Just great eyepieces?

 

 

[John]

In my FC-100DL I find the 5mm and 3.5mm Pentax XW's and the Tele Vue 2-4mm Nagler zoom excellent high power eyepieces.

For Jupiter I'd also use my 6mm Ethos and sometimes even the 7mm Pentax XW because often that planet does not respond to really high magnifications as well as, say, Saturn does.

 

[F15Rules]

I use Tak HI- LE 3.6mm and LE 7.5m with my FS128 and Vixen ED103 scopes and am very happy with them. I also 2.25x Barlow my Pentax XL 10.5mm to give a 4.66mm FL with good results. 

I've also used the XW5, a lovely eyepiece, and Vixen LVW 5mm also a good performer.

I too would love to read user reviews of the new Tak TOE range of you'd like to be a guinea pig purchaser??!

Dave

[Highburymark]

I've gone for two Delites for high power moon and planets with my FC-100 after being so impressed with the 7mm - only had one session with them so far - beautifully sharp and pure lunar views. 

[festoon]

Thank you for all the replies so far there are lots of eyepiece choices here that I have not tried before...

The Delites and Delos sound like they have a very good reputation, and it sounds like for pure performance but with narrow FOV and small eye relief the ZAO or TMB super mono's would be a good choice (assuming any of these come up for sale second hand).

What is the difference between the Pentax XO, XW, XL. @Timebandit mentions " If in the event you wish to have comfortable viewing,but with great optics at Ortho level then I would get the Pentax XW 3.5 , 5 ,7 to suit viewing conditions." - are the XW models orthos?

Just been looking at the Tak TOE eyepieces...they look really nice Not sure if I want to be a guinea pig though Also are the Tak TOE eyepiece a replacement model for the Tak Hi-LE's?

Possibly the Vixen HR is too powerful, with the lowest mag being with the 2.4mm focal length --> that would give a mag of 375, which would be lovely for Lunar, but can I have an opinion on if that is pushing it for planets? From my experience I would think so for Jupiter, but not sure about Saturn.

I have never come across the Fujiyama Orthos before..they seem very reasonably priced...do these compare to the University Optics HD Abbe Orthoscopic or the Baader Genuine Ortho range?

[John]

7 hours ago, festoon said:

 The Delites and Delos sound like they have a very good reputation, and it sounds like for pure performance but with narrow FOV and small eye relief the ZAO or TMB super mono's would be a good choice (assuming any of these come up for sale second hand).

What is the difference between the Pentax XO, XW, XL. @Timebandit mentions " If in the event you wish to have comfortable viewing,but with great optics at Ortho level then I would get the Pentax XW 3.5 , 5 ,7 to suit viewing conditions." - are the XW models orthos?

Just been looking at the Tak TOE eyepieces...they look really nice Not sure if I want to be a guinea pig though Also are the Tak TOE eyepiece a replacement model for the Tak Hi-LE's?

Possibly the Vixen HR is too powerful, with the lowest mag being with the 2.4mm focal length --> that would give a mag of 375, which would be lovely for Lunar, but can I have an opinion on if that is pushing it for planets? From my experience I would think so for Jupiter, but not sure about Saturn.

I have never come across the Fujiyama Orthos before..they seem very reasonably priced...do these compare to the University Optics HD Abbe Orthoscopic or the Baader Genuine Ortho range?

This is my take on your questions:

The ZAOs and TMB Supermonos are really the top tier planetary eyepieces but out of production now. If they ever come up they are offered for around £350 each and upwards. I owned a 5mm TMB Supermono for a while and found it superb on the nights of best seeing (say around 20% of the time where I am). On more regular nights the views through a £50 (used) University Optics HD ortho 5mm (similar to a Fujiyama or Baader Genuine Ortho) matched it and give a slightly larger field of view. Don't under estimate the challenges of using an eyepiece with a 30 degree apparent field, tiny eye lens and short eye relief even if it is optically superb !

Pentax XOs are a another top tier but out of production eyepiece which are as rare as hens teeth and will also set you back £300 plus if you ever come across one. They are available in just 2 focal lengths (5.1mm and 2.5mm I think) and have a narrowish field of view and short eye relief.

Pentax XLs and XWs are entirely different - wide field eyepieces with very large eye lenses and lots of eye relief. They are equal to or get extremely close to Abbe Orthoscopic (eg: Baader Genuine, Fujiyama or University HD orthos) levels of performance but are much more comfortable to use even in the very short focal lengths. The Tele Vue Delos and Delites are in a similar category. Choosing between these is pretty much a matter of personal preference as much as anything else. The XW's superceded the XL's and offer a slightly wider field of view and slightly better coatings but the word "slightly" is optimal here !

I don't know whether the Tak TOE eyepieces are destined to replace Tak LEs but I've read a mixed set of feedback on both the LE's (some love them some don't) and a few negatives about the new TOEs lately which, for me, mean that I'd hang back from investing in a TOE just now and I'd not put LE's top of my list from the couple that I've tried - I obviously fall into the "Not an LE fan" camp !

300+ is useable on Saturn, Mars, Uranus, Neptune the moon and double stars with the TAK FC 100 but tends to be too much for Jupiter, I agree. Personally I like to have the 300x - 400x option which is where my Nagler 2-4mm zoom comes in. From what I've read the Vixen HR's are knocking on the "tip tier" performance door as well and are actually available new !

I've already mentioned Fujiyama orthos, above.

Hope that helps a little

 

 

 

 

 

[AstroSylv1]

It depends if your mount has some tracking capability or not : if you don't have any motors, then, the Delos, Delite and XW will be a joy to use, and the Orthos will give you headaches. But it your mount has tracking capabilities, then the orthos are unsurpassed the few good nights of seeing, in terms of sharpness and transmission, scatter control, etc.... personally, on my DL, I use orthos (Zeiss and Fujiyama) on some very good nights, for lunar and planetary, and tight double stars, all on a motorised mount. When I do a short one hour observing session, on a non-motorised alt/az mount, I use the XW's for everything....

[Doc]

I personally don't find ortho's hard to use with a non driven mount. I just place the object on the edge of the FOV and let it drift accross then once it's drifted move it back again and repeat.

[John]

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

I personally don't find ortho's hard to use with a non driven mount. I just place the object on the edge of the FOV and let it drift accross then once it's drifted move it back again and repeat.

I agree - thats the method I use as well. It's just that you get more time between nudges with a widefield eyepiece and if you loose that little eyelens in the dark it can be quite hard to find it again !

 

[Timebandit]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

I personally don't find ortho's hard to use with a non driven mount. I just place the object on the edge of the FOV and let it drift accross then once it's drifted move it back again and repeat.

 

That's exactly what I do to ??

I love using Orthos. And when I did not have the Pentax XW ,the humble Ortho was my sharpest eyepiece available in my case. The Pentax XW came along and in all fairness are so much more comfortable to use. But I am still trying to decide if the Ortho is the king of sharpness in my case or if it's the XW now. I still have not decided as they are both so good on the quality of optical performance. But what I do know if I am up for a quick session, it is so much easier to put 2 or 3 Ortho in my coat pocket for transport/safe keeping, you can't do that with the Pentax XW because they are a bit bigger?

I would love to have the budget to get a ZAO or TMB supermono to put against the Pentax XW or my existing Ortho. Just to see in my own eyes if they really are that much better on a good night of seeing conditions. And if I really am missing out on not having some ZAO or TMB in my case. ?

 

 

[Doc]

I agree the time is short between nudges but you get used to it. I think the sharpness and clarity an ortho gives outweighs the small FOV. I normally wear a large RAB coat with deep pockets and fit all my ortho's in them, as Timebandit says you cannot do that with XW's or Delos's.

[mikeDnight]

The best mono eyepiece view I've had through my Tak DC and through a friends DL was provided by a 5mm TMB Super monocentric. Other excellent views have been given by a 4mm Nirvana, 5mm & 3.5mm XW's and a 2.5mm Vixen LV. Nothing as yet however has given anywhere near the same level of sharpness and definition as a pair of cheap Super Abbe Orthoscopics in my cheap binoviewer, with barlow or extender Q. 

[paulastro]

I agree with Mike, not surprisingly perhaps .  I've used some of the excellent eyepieces mentioned on the DC and DL on the same night, then observed immediately afterwards with Mike's binoviewer and two Orthos, and the binoviewer image was MUCH, better.  One of the single eyepieces used on this particular night was a TMB Super Mono. It gave such a WOW view on Jupiter I immediately wanted one, only to change my mind immediately having then viewed the planet with the Orthos in a cheap  binoviewer!!

[Stu]

22 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

The best mono eyepiece view I've had through my Tak DC and through a friends DL was provided by a 5mm TMB Super monocentric. Other excellent views have been given by a 4mm Nirvana, 5mm & 3.5mm XW's and a 2.5mm Vixen LV. Nothing as yet however has given anywhere near the same level of sharpness and definition as a pair of cheap Super Abbe Orthoscopics in my cheap binoviewer, with barlow or extender Q. 

I have no doubt you are correct Mike, but it's worth acknowledging that binoviewers don't work for everyone. I've done comparisons between binoviewers and cyclops views on planets and I definitely see far more detail with a single eyepiece.

For solar and lunar observing I much prefer binoviewers, but for planetary, definitely not. It is all down to your eyes I think and you won't know until you've tried!

[John]

I can't get on with binoviewers at all so we are all a little different in these things. Likewise our fondness for tiny eye lenses and AFoV's

Fortunately there is lots of choice these days so something for all !

[Timebandit]

41 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

The best mono eyepiece view I've had through my Tak DC and through a friends DL was provided by a 5mm TMB Super monocentric. Other excellent views have been given by a 4mm Nirvana, 5mm & 3.5mm XW's and a 2.5mm Vixen LV. Nothing as yet however has given anywhere near the same level of sharpness and definition as a pair of cheap Super Abbe Orthoscopics in my cheap binoviewer, with barlow or extender Q. 

 

14 minutes ago, Stu said:

I have no doubt you are correct Mike, but it's worth acknowledging that binoviewers don't work for everyone. I've done comparisons between binoviewers and cyclops views on planets and I definitely see far more detail with a single eyepiece.

For solar and lunar observing I much prefer binoviewers, but for planetary, definitely not. It is all down to your eyes I think and you won't know until you've tried!

 

 

 

Shame that you did not have a pair of TMB supermono to go up against the cheap pair of Abbe Ortho. As if the cheap pair of Abbe Ortho in the binoviewers bested a single TMB supermono. Just think what a pair of TMB supermono would possibly be like in the binoviewers. Find another TMB supermono chaps and let us know ?

 

 

 

[Louis D]

On 12/4/2017 at 08:25, festoon said:

My question is - if money was no object, what eyepiece would you choose for looking at objects like Jupiter at high magnification?

Well, then there are the unobtanium Zeiss observatory grade professional monocentrics discussed here.  Truly rare as hen's teeth.