HEQ5 Pro - Mains Power Supply - Will This Work?

[Ross1204]

Hello,

After multiple hours of reading articles, blogs, forum posts and tutorials I am still in need of a little help/advice on which power solutions will be best. I have seen there are loads of choices such as linear bench power supplies, switching PSU's, car jump starters and the good old DIY leisure battery box.

All that being said would the following be OK as well.

1) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Masterplug-ARCDKG-Safety-RCD-Adaptor/dp/B000RZDNZM/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1511983372&sr=1-1&keywords=rcd

 

2) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Masterplug-BOG10OMS-Outdoor-Socket-Extension/dp/B004I5BQ1A

3) https://www.amazon.co.uk/DRiBOX-FL-1859-285-IP55-Medium-Weatherproof/dp/B00274SLK8

4) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cigarette-Lighter-Voltage-Converter-Adapter/dp/B00PUNIEI2

So RCD on to mains socket, extension lead in to DriBox, 12v Cig adapter into the HEQ5 power lead that comes with the mount.

Any ideas?

Ross

[symmetal]

Yes, that all looks fine to me. 

Alan

[bottletopburly]

you could do but 12v is safer especially where  damp is an issue 

[Ross1204]

1 hour ago, bottletopburly said:

you could do but 12v is safer especially where  damp is an issue 

Has always been on my mind as most suggestions I've read advise 12v for that reason. Just thinking though if I position the Dribox off the floor on something nearer the mount that may also help if only for the cables not needing to be as long.

The main concern is will the 12v Cig adapter survive the elements, is the box sufficient enough? Or can the cold also mess with it as damp shouldn't be a problem when closed up and sealed.

Lastly do you or anyone happen to know if a 12v bench power supply would still work ok if the cable to the mount from the unit was 10m or so? Will there be any drops in the voltage or amps over that distance.

Thanks

Ross

[RayD]

9 minutes ago, Ross1204 said:

Has always been on my mind as most suggestions I've read advise 12v for that reason. Just thinking though if I position the Dribox off the floor on something nearer the mount that may also help if only for the cables not needing to be as long.

The main concern is will the 12v Cig adapter survive the elements, is the box sufficient enough? Or can the cold also mess with it as damp shouldn't be a problem when closed up and sealed.

Lastly do you or anyone happen to know if a 12v bench power supply would still work ok if the cable to the mount from the unit was 10m or so? Will there be any drops in the voltage or amps over that distance.

Thanks

Ross

If you use a bench power supply, such as the Nevada one from FLO, it runs at 13.8v and will be absolutely fine with cables of 10m.  Run a larger pair of cables, such as 2.5mm and you will have no issues at all.  Far safer.

[Mered]

9 minutes ago, Ross1204 said:

Has always been on my mind as most suggestions I've read advise 12v for that reason. Just thinking though if I position the Dribox off the floor on something nearer the mount that may also help if only for the cables not needing to be as long.

The main concern is will the 12v Cig adapter survive the elements, is the box sufficient enough? Or can the cold also mess with it as damp shouldn't be a problem when closed up and sealed.

Lastly do you or anyone happen to know if a 12v bench power supply would still work ok if the cable to the mount from the unit was 10m or so? Will there be any drops in the voltage or amps over that distance.

Thanks

Ross

Yes, I have a bench power supply which stays indoors and I use 2 x 6m 12v extension leads. According to the hand control, I still get 12.5V.

[Ross1204]

5 minutes ago, RayD said:

If you use a bench power supply, such as the Nevada one from FLO, it runs at 13.8v and will be absolutely fine with cables of 10m.  Run a larger pair of cables, such as 2.5mm and you will have no issues at all.  Far safer.

 

5 minutes ago, Mered said:

Yes, I have a bench power supply which stays indoors and I use 2 x 6m 12v extension leads. According to the hand control, I still get 12.5V.

 Seems like the way to go then. Can you run multiple things off it or just the mount? Thinking maybe laptop, camera and dew straps if needed. 

Ross

[Mered]

The Nevada power supply runs my mount and guider with plenty of amps to spare. It should also cope with a couple of dew bands I think? I've not tried myself.

Not sure if it would do a laptop as well, I think mount + dew straps + laptop would possibly be too much. They are cheap enough (compared to most astronomy gear) that you could get two, and have one for the laptop.

I use a dual cigarette socket at the end of the extension, which also has a USB port, but I keep looking at the 12V power boxes that the folks are making in the DIY Astronomer section with envy!

[RayD]

1 minute ago, Mered said:

The Nevada power supply runs my mount and guider with plenty of amps to spare. It should also cope with a couple of dew bands I think? I've not tried myself.

Not sure if it would do a laptop as well, I think mount + dew straps + laptop would possibly be too much. They are cheap enough (compared to most astronomy gear) that you could get two, and have one for the laptop.

At 6-8A it should be fine for your mount and a couple of dew strips (they are only an amp or so).  May be a push on your laptop also, but only during a slew (depending on the size of your mount) so I would say probably fine assuming your laptop charges at 12-13v.

[cletrac1922]

Ross, you only intend to operate from home, then probably be OK

Option 4 with power supply with lighter outlet if away from moisture would be my second weapon of choice, and have one

I use battery jump pack, which mine has 2 12volt outlets, as operate away from home a lot with public displays, primary schools, scout/guide groups with my astronomy club

John

 

[Ross1204]

Thank you all for the extremely helpful advice it is very much appreciated.

I am now pretty much decided on purchasing the Nevada power supply on Flo's website but before pulling the trigger is there a way to work out what my Laptop will draw to see if its a possibility as well to run from the same PSU?

 This is a picture of the back of the AC/DC laptop charger. 

And this is a picture and details of the 12v DC laptop charger I have found which supports my laptop model.

Hp 14-an000 car charger dc adapter

This Hp 14-an000 car charger simply plugs into your 12v car cigarette lighter and allows you to use your Hp 14-an0000 laptop and covers all models that use a normal charger output of 19.5v 4.62a 90w, 19.5v 3.33a 65w or 19.5v 2.31a 45w, so if you have run out battery or you simply want to power your Hp notebook whenever you are out and about in your car, van or motorhome. Then look no further, we are a UK company and hold UK stock and next day delivery is available, but we also send to all over the world. This also has 2x USB ports, so you can connect your iPad, iPhone, Smartphone or device for USB charging also.

Hp 14-an000 car charger for 12v charging.
Hp 14-an000 car charger specification:
Power: 90W
Input: 12v-16V
Output: 19.5V 4.62A

• Supports chargers:
• 19.5V 2.31A
• 19.5V 3.33A
• 19.5V 4.62A

https://www.coywood.co.uk/hp-14-an000-car-charger-dc-adapter-62084-p.asp

Just not entirely sure how to work it out as a complete novice when looking in to things like this, even after a lot of reading on the astro power supply dilemma.

Ross

[symmetal]

Ross, the laptop mains psu supplies 19.5V at 2.31A max which is 45W max power.

The car to laptop supply will be powered from your 13.6V Nevada so to supply 45W it will draw 3.3A at 100% efficiency. Switch mode power supplies are never 100% efficient, 80%-90% is more likely. At 80% efficiency it will draw 4.1A from your nevada, half of its rating of 8A.

However your laptop will never draw the max 2.31A in normal use probably 1A is typical so your nevada will supply around 1.8A to the laptop in normal use.

This is within its capabilities. The mount will draw around 1A tracking and 2 to 3A slewing. A dew strap heater about 1A.

Worst case scenario is a total of 8A from the Nevada, within the Nevada PSU capability for short periods. In reality the laptop won't be drawing anywhere near max power so 5A total while slewing is more realistic. 

So it's fine to run everything off the Nevada if that's what you want to do. 

I'm running a dual imaging rig with a CCD and CMOS cooled cameras, guider, on board mini pc, 3 dew straps and an AZ-EQ6. With the cameras cooled to 25 degrees below ambient and slewing both axis, the 13V power supply current is around 7A.

Alan

[RayD]

Yep agree with @symmetal,  all the currents noted are maximum and typically will not be present at the same time anyway, so I would say you'd be fine.  Thing is it has overcurrentt protection anyway, so you won't blow it up, but I recking it'll tick along nicely.

Just make sure you use reasonably big cable (1.5mm minimum) between the supply and the equipment as you will want the starting voltage as near to the 13.8v as you can get it, which will help with the current draw.

[Ross1204]

13 hours ago, symmetal said:

Ross, the laptop mains psu supplies 19.5V at 2.31A max which is 45W max power.

The car to laptop supply will be powered from your 13.6V Nevada so to supply 45W it will draw 3.3A at 100% efficiency. Switch mode power supplies are never 100% efficient, 80%-90% is more likely. At 80% efficiency it will draw 4.1A from your nevada, half of its rating of 8A.

However your laptop will never draw the max 2.31A in normal use probably 1A is typical so your nevada will supply around 1.8A to the laptop in normal use.

This is within its capabilities. The mount will draw around 1A tracking and 2 to 3A slewing. A dew strap heater about 1A.

Worst case scenario is a total of 8A from the Nevada, within the Nevada PSU capability for short periods. In reality the laptop won't be drawing anywhere near max power so 5A total while slewing is more realistic. 

So it's fine to run everything off the Nevada if that's what you want to do. 

I'm running a dual imaging rig with a CCD and CMOS cooled cameras, guider, on board mini pc, 3 dew straps and an AZ-EQ6. With the cameras cooled to 25 degrees below ambient and slewing both axis, the 13V power supply current is around 7A.

Alan

 

4 hours ago, RayD said:

Yep agree with @symmetal,  all the currents noted are maximum and typically will not be present at the same time anyway, so I would say you'd be fine.  Thing is it has overcurrentt protection anyway, so you won't blow it up, but I recking it'll tick along nicely.

Just make sure you use reasonably big cable (1.5mm minimum) between the supply and the equipment as you will want the starting voltage as near to the 13.8v as you can get it, which will help with the current draw.

Thank you Alan and RayD for the extremely well detailed replies, they have been so helpful in making me understand what is now required for my setup.

As you have both suggested that the Nevada PS-08 6-8A from FLO should be sufficient in powering my HEQ5 Pro and laptop at the same time could I be annoying and ask for you opinion on this other supply I have found?

http://www.kcb.co.uk/shop2/contents/en-uk/p1722_QJE_QJ1863__10A_Power_Supply.html

This description states it is again a linear supply but this one supplies 10amp constant and 12amp surge.

If you had the choice which is best?

I guess with this one though there is only one output so is it at all possible to split the power for the mount and laptop?

Thanks

Ross

[symmetal]

Hi Ross, the QJE linear supply you listed would be fine as well and it has a bit more current in hand to cover any future expansion. You would have to have a power splitter to connect your equipment to it. With the Nevada one you would need a splitter anyway if your going to connect cameras or dew straps to it. There are many ways of doing this and a quick search in the 'DIY Astronomer' section of the forum would give you some ideas.

The QJE supply doesn't have an ammeter on it compared to the Nevada but I found my Nevada ammeter is inaccurate anyway, reading 2A higher than the actual current. 

I don't know if it's been mentioned but linear supplies do get hot in use so need good ventilation particularly around the heat sinks at the rear.

The Nevada has a good reputation on here and I have no experience with the QJE though it's probably just as good. There is little to go wrong in linear supplies as long as they don't get too hot.

Alan

[Ross1204]

On 12/1/2017 at 14:21, symmetal said:

Hi Ross, the QJE linear supply you listed would be fine as well and it has a bit more current in hand to cover any future expansion. You would have to have a power splitter to connect your equipment to it. With the Nevada one you would need a splitter anyway if your going to connect cameras or dew straps to it. There are many ways of doing this and a quick search in the 'DIY Astronomer' section of the forum would give you some ideas.

The QJE supply doesn't have an ammeter on it compared to the Nevada but I found my Nevada ammeter is inaccurate anyway, reading 2A higher than the actual current. 

I don't know if it's been mentioned but linear supplies do get hot in use so need good ventilation particularly around the heat sinks at the rear.

The Nevada has a good reputation on here and I have no experience with the QJE though it's probably just as good. There is little to go wrong in linear supplies as long as they don't get too hot.

Alan

Thanks again Alan for the much appreciated advice and insight.

I have decided I shall go ahead and buy the QJE power supply as the additional amps for potential expansions seems something to beware of so I won't have to buy another later down the line if the time came for it. Not entirely sure if its wise to buy a supply without any sort of ammeter but I guess I would like to think that a power supply with 10 amps consistent current should be easily sufficient to run all the gear I have.

Ross

[symmetal]

Looks like a good choice Ross. As you say, there won't be any problem with it supplying all the power you'll need.  There's no problem with it not having an ammeter. You may already have one, but a multimeter is a very useful tool to have and they're not expensive. You can then easily do spot checks on the voltage, current and do continuity checks.

Alan

[RayD]

Great stuff, looks ideal.

I can honestly say I've taken no notice of my ammeter on either of my supplies and at 10A I wouldn't think you'll need to be too concerned.

Enjoy.

[smr]

On 29/11/2017 at 21:18, RayD said:

If you use a bench power supply, such as the Nevada one from FLO, it runs at 13.8v and will be absolutely fine with cables of 10m.  Run a larger pair of cables, such as 2.5mm and you will have no issues at all.  Far safer.

Hi, I know this is an old thread but I'm in exactly the same position of the OP... wondering how to power my HEQ5 Pro outside. I should preface this by saying I'm completely clueless when it comes to electronics and voltages etc.

I have actually gone and bought the kit in the OP.. so 

RCD plug > 10 meter cable > Dribox with 4 socket extension lead inside it > PSU for mount.

Why would it be far safer to use a bench power supply such as the Nevada one instead? Is the way I'm trying to do it dangerous and if so why? 

[RayD]

3 minutes ago, smr said:

Hi, I know this is an old thread but I'm in exactly the same position of the OP... wondering how to power my HEQ5 Pro outside. I should preface this by saying I'm completely clueless when it comes to electronics and voltages etc.

I have actually gone and bought the kit in the OP.. so 

RCD plug > 10 meter cable > Dribox with 4 socket extension lead inside it > PSU for mount.

Why would it be far safer to use a bench power supply such as the Nevada one instead? Is the way I'm trying to do it dangerous and if so why? 

This will be fine.  It isn't dangerous running 220v outside if it is connected to a RCD protected circuit, but 13.8v is safer.  Basically if the worse happens, you won't come to any harm at these voltages.

The power supply is designed for indoor use, but provided it is in a case and/or well protected against the elements and dew etc. then it'll be fine.

[smr]

1 minute ago, RayD said:

This will be fine.  It isn't dangerous running 220v outside if it is connected to a RCD protected circuit, but 13.8v is safer.  The power supply is designed for indoor use, but provided it is in a case and/or well protected against the elements and dew etc. then it'll be fine.

Ok thanks. Why would it be dangerous if the RCD wasn't on it?

[RayD]

Just now, smr said:

Ok thanks. Why would it be dangerous if the RCD wasn't on it?

Because there would be nothing to detect earth leakage, and this is potentially (very likely) lethal when outside in damp conditions.  A RCD detects very low fault currents (30ma) and operate very quickly to cut the power if there is a fault.  It is an absolute must to fit an RCD on any mains connected devices being used externally, in my opinion.  They are very cheap but will potentially save your life.

[Xiga]

On 02/10/2018 at 20:21, RayD said:

Because there would be nothing to detect earth leakage, and this is potentially (very likely) lethal when outside in damp conditions.  A RCD detects very low fault currents (30ma) and operate very quickly to cut the power if there is a fault.  It is an absolute must to fit an RCD on any mains connected devices being used externally, in my opinion.  They are very cheap but will potentially save your life.

Having recently realised that my Celestron LifoPo4 powertank cannot quite manage a full night (10+ hrs) in frosty conditions for powering my HEQ5 Pro (alone) i too am looking at a power-from-home solution. Hence i have come across this excellent thread! 

My initial thought was to look into another expensive power supply, but i'm now thinking what about just getting a longer cable and keep the Celestron powertank inside the house? I suspect the much higher inside temperature would be enough that it could last a full night? (which in fairness here in the UK, is not that common, but even so...). So with this in mind, would the following fit the bill ok?

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/astronomy-cables-leads-accessories/lynx-astro-silicone-21mm-dc-jack-to-female-cigarette-socket.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/astronomy-cables-leads-accessories/lynx-astro-mount-power-cable-for-sky-watcher-mounts.html  (the 5m version)

5m should be enough, just , i think! Although if a 10m version was available i'd much rather go for it instead.

Or am i mistaken here in thinking that a 7 Ahr psu could power the HEQ5-Pro for 10 hrs? Note, this is for AP only, so virtually all of the time would be spent tracking, with very little slewing. 

On another note, something someone above posted made me start to wonder if what i'm currently doing is safe. At the moment, i run a regular extension cable outside to the driveway, where it resides in a thick plastic bag. Into it i plug the laptop psu, along with the item below, which receives the 2-channel dew controller (with dew strips for my 80ED and finder-guider). Is this ok?! Basically, am i in danger of damaging myself or my gear anytime soon? The dew strip for my finder-guider failed on me last night. I need a new one, and i'm now wondering if this was just a coincidence or if it's something more serious i need to address. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00PUNIEI2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks in advance!

[RayD]

4 hours ago, Xiga said:

Having recently realised that my Celestron LifoPo4 powertank cannot quite manage a full night (10+ hrs) in frosty conditions for powering my HEQ5 Pro (alone) i too am looking at a power-from-home solution. Hence i have come across this excellent thread! 

My initial thought was to look into another expensive power supply, but i'm now thinking what about just getting a longer cable and keep the Celestron powertank inside the house? I suspect the much higher inside temperature would be enough that it could last a full night? (which in fairness here in the UK, is not that common, but even so...). So with this in mind, would the following fit the bill ok?

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/astronomy-cables-leads-accessories/lynx-astro-silicone-21mm-dc-jack-to-female-cigarette-socket.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/astronomy-cables-leads-accessories/lynx-astro-mount-power-cable-for-sky-watcher-mounts.html  (the 5m version)

5m should be enough, just , i think! Although if a 10m version was available i'd much rather go for it instead.

Or am i mistaken here in thinking that a 7 Ahr psu could power the HEQ5-Pro for 10 hrs? Note, this is for AP only, so virtually all of the time would be spent tracking, with very little slewing. 

On another note, something someone above posted made me start to wonder if what i'm currently doing is safe. At the moment, i run a regular extension cable outside to the driveway, where it resides in a thick plastic bag. Into it i plug the laptop psu, along with the item below, which receives the 2-channel dew controller (with dew strips for my 80ED and finder-guider). Is this ok?! Basically, am i in danger of damaging myself or my gear anytime soon? The dew strip for my finder-guider failed on me last night. I need a new one, and i'm now wondering if this was just a coincidence or if it's something more serious i need to address. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00PUNIEI2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks in advance!

Hmmmmm, tricky one.

In theory any cable should be rated for the maximum current capacity of the circuit in which it is fitted.  The problem you have at the minute is that your power tank is 12v, so doesn't give you much leeway with regards to voltage drop, to which the SW mounts don't take kindly to.

When looking at voltage drop you need to consider the out and return legs of the cable, so if you used a 1.0mm cable (the one listed) at 10m from a 12v supply, you would potentially have a 0.86v drop, which is 7% so way about the general target of 3% or so and would almost certainly cause you problems with the SW mount.  This is based on a maximum slew current of 2.5A.  The longer your cable run, the larger it needs to be.  For example, in my observatory my supply sits 5m away from the pier, and at 13.8v I use 3.0mm cable.

I think in reality these supplies are designed such that they should site next to the equipment, not remote from it.  However, even then, at 7Ah, you are probably doing well if running your mount for 10 hours when considering initial slewing and setting up etc, so it seems to be performing pretty well for its size.  A 10Ah would be better I suspect.

As noted earlier, the likelihood of electric shock when using mains voltages outside is still pretty low, but this increases in our hobby because of dew build up.  Very few 12v power supplies are designed to work externally (I think Baader do one), so they have no dew protection.  This is more likely to mean the supply will fail rather than causing you harm, but to mitigate the harm bit, the mains supply extension should be connected to a RCD device.  They are very cheap and I would say 100% essential.

You can put your supplies in a vented box of some sort, such as one of the plastic storage ones seen often, which will be fine, but basically anything that prevents or limits the dew build up on them.  

I suspect the dew heater failure is unrelated and just a general failure if the actual supply is still working.

In short, stick your supplies in a box (you can insulate this to keep things warm if you want, but the heat from the supplies themselves is usually enough) and stick a RCD device on you extension lead and you should be good 

 

[Xiga]

7 hours ago, RayD said:

Hmmmmm, tricky one.

In theory any cable should be rated for the maximum current capacity of the circuit in which it is fitted.  The problem you have at the minute is that your power tank is 12v, so doesn't give you much leeway with regards to voltage drop, to which the SW mounts don't take kindly to.

When looking at voltage drop you need to consider the out and return legs of the cable, so if you used a 1.0mm cable (the one listed) at 10m from a 12v supply, you would potentially have a 0.86v drop, which is 7% so way about the general target of 3% or so and would almost certainly cause you problems with the SW mount.  This is based on a maximum slew current of 2.5A.  The longer your cable run, the larger it needs to be.  For example, in my observatory my supply sits 5m away from the pier, and at 13.8v I use 3.0mm cable.

I think in reality these supplies are designed such that they should site next to the equipment, not remote from it.  However, even then, at 7Ah, you are probably doing well if running your mount for 10 hours when considering initial slewing and setting up etc, so it seems to be performing pretty well for its size.  A 10Ah would be better I suspect.

As noted earlier, the likelihood of electric shock when using mains voltages outside is still pretty low, but this increases in our hobby because of dew build up.  Very few 12v power supplies are designed to work externally (I think Baader do one), so they have no dew protection.  This is more likely to mean the supply will fail rather than causing you harm, but to mitigate the harm bit, the mains supply extension should be connected to a RCD device.  They are very cheap and I would say 100% essential.

You can put your supplies in a vented box of some sort, such as one of the plastic storage ones seen often, which will be fine, but basically anything that prevents or limits the dew build up on them.  

I suspect the dew heater failure is unrelated and just a general failure if the actual supply is still working.

In short, stick your supplies in a box (you can insulate this to keep things warm if you want, but the heat from the supplies themselves is usually enough) and stick a RCD device on you extension lead and you should be good 

 

Thanks Ray.

What about this to power the HEQ5-Pro:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/lynx-astro-12v-dc-5amp-low-noise-mains-power-supply.html

So basically, plug an RCD device (such as the one from the OP) into the outlet in the house. Then plug the extension lead into it and run it out into the driveway. Then connect the above HEQ5-Pro psu (assuming it will be ok) and the one powering the dew controller both into it, and house it all in a weather-proof box. Does that sound about right? 

And what do you think of this for the extension cable:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Masterplug-WBXBFG10B-Outdoor-Weatherproof-Extension/dp/B0062GTL42/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1541258315&sr=1-1&keywords=outdoor+extension+cable+waterproof

Thanks again!

Edit - i forgot to mention, there is also the laptop's psu which i am using too. So in total, there would be 3 power bricks plugged into the extension lead in the weatherproof box - laptop, mount, and dew controller.