Pentax 10mm XW (Second light)

[Alan White]

Second light with my XW as it got dark this afternoon and before the cloud rolled in from the east.
I used my ED 80 and did some lunar observing, having worked from home today I was ready to roll at 4.15.

What a comfortable eyepiece it is, at native 10mm a nice 60x and what a sharp and enjoyable view.

Mare Crisium, Mare Fecunditatis  very defined with some very fine detail visible.
Mare Crisium gave up its four small craters well and the raised peaks.

Decided to do something I do not normally do and Barlow it with my 2x Televue Barlow, wow. 

120x with the Barlow and as good as at 10mm 60x just bigger, probably at edge of the seeing for me today though, or so I thought: 
then I did something wild and set the barlowed ep into my tal 2x barlow, wow again, still held together but getting rough at something like 200x?

Rolled it back to just the 10mm and brighter and crisper due to the magnification and fine eyepiece.

This are the best lunar views I have had, ever, the XW is that good.

I have been using TV plossl and also Tak LE So was very surprised by the view.

The eyepiece is so comfortable, eye placement is simple and just so nice to use.
Makes me a very relaxed observer and that makes for good observation when conditions allow.  
Clearly this may vary from person to person.

I never believed eyepieces could be so different until the last 12 months when I have moved through a number and getting more expensive.
Now at Pentax XW and Vixen LVW and can see a lot of selling going on and a little buying with the resulting funds.

Did I saw WOW?   

Edited November 23, 2017 by Alan White

[John]

Great report Alan

It was the loan of a Pentax XW 10mm from FLO that pursuaded me that my excellent Tele Vue Nagler T6's could be bested

 

[Alan White]

6 minutes ago, John said:

Great report Alan

It was the loan of a Pentax XW 10mm from FLO that pursuaded me that my excellent Tele Vue Nagler T6's could be bested

 

I have not viewed through a Nagler, have through my TV Plossl and looked through a 24mm Panoptic a few years ago.

Problem is, I want more now, I knew this was a slippery slope!!!   and I am still on beans until payday already.

[jetstream]

Awesome findings!

You might find that, like me the Tak LE series is not in the same league as your better eyepieces...

[Timebandit]

 

I remember when I went from a TV plossl to a XW . What a difference ,it's like the universe is opening up to you . TV plossl are very good, but the trouble is the XW are better. It's like looking through a straw with a plossl, mabe this is a bit unfair but initially a a move to a XW really opens things in the fov and comfort . I have never regretted the move to XW, luckily I spotted some for sale on SGL and thanks to my quick buy finger and Pig( Shaun)  for helping me on my way to enlightenment. ?

The trouble is when you start looking through quality eyepieces then you realise what you are missing and want more, can get very expensive??

 

 

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

XWs are just awesome, aren't they! I have the 5, 7 and 10mm and they are all superb (all second-hand!!). I also have a Delos 8mm, which can be made parfocal with the XWs with a ring, and it is just as good, I would say. Having said that, the much cheaper Vixen SLVs are very, very close in terms of quality an comfort, and only lag in field of view.

[Alan White]

Interesting Michael, 

I didn’t like the SLV could not get comfortable with them, sold them all.

The Vixen LVW is rather nice, love my 22mm one.

[F15Rules]

3 hours ago, jetstream said:

Awesome findings!

You might find that, like me the Tak LE series is not in the same league as your better eyepieces...

I think this is where subjective criteria come into play, we are all different.

I have owned 5 and 7mm XWs and still have a lovely 10.5mm XL, and have just re-purchased a Pentax 8-24mm zoom. I also have a 12mm XF. I love Pentax eyepieces.

I also have a Tak 7.5mm LE and a HI-LE 3.6mm, which I rate just as highly optically as the XWs in terms of contrast, sharpness and light scattering.

I actually think the Tak LE 7.5 just edges the XW7 on light scattering, which is why I sold the XW7 and kept the Tak. And the Tak was half the price (bought used) of the XW7.

But I do think the XW are clear winners in comfort and eye relief, and my 10.5mm XL is my go-to eyepiece as I start to increase the power from low power (LVW 22mm). My main scope FL is 1040mm.

If I'm planning a mixed magnification session I sometimes Barlow the 10.5mm to c 5mm with my Baader 2.25x Hyperion zoom barlow, just as Alan did with his 10mm XW. The views, at just over x200 are great on a good night.

But for longer sessions at higher power, where I want to wring out the very last details on planets, moon or double stars, my Taks come into their own. With better eye relief than orthos, and the sharpness of orthos, I just find the Taks' view a little more satisfying, a little more "pure" at high power. But that may just be me, and the XWs are definitely more comfortable for extended use.

I  definitely think the 5, 7 and 10 are the best of the range. I've not looked through the 3.5mm XW but I imagine it's as good as the other short FL models.

Great first light Alan, congratulations on your purchase ☺.

Dave

[Alan White]

As Dave says, eyepieces are so personal and subjective.

Both Dave and I love our LVW 22mm units, probably for the same reasons; 
Comfort of use, clarity of view, edge to edge sharpness, how it renders the image to our liking.
Others may not like them at all.

The 10mm XW was similar for all my criteria;
Comfort of use, clarity of view, edge to edge sharpness, how it renders the image to my liking.

I have a Tak LE 7.5mm and a 5mm too.
The criteria are almost met;
Clarity of view, edge to edge sharpness, how it renders the image to my liking.
I do not find it as comfortable as the XW or LVW to use, but they are easier to use than orthos.
These may and I only say may be joined or replaced by XW as funds allow.
We will see, they may just stay.

Michael suggested Vixen SLV being just as easy to use,
I did not find that myself, the twist up eye-cup did not work for me and I could find the eye placement fussy at times.
The clarity of view, sharpness edge to edge all were wonderful.
Many folks on here really rate the SLV and rightly so, if it meets your personal criteria, it's a winner.

 

[F15Rules]

I agree Alan. I didn't get on with the 12mm SLV I tried about a year ago. I actually preferred the NPL (albeit at 20mm and 30mm) !!?? 

But I know the SLVs are highly regarded by many and completely respect that..you just never really know if an EP will suit you until you spend an hour or two under the stars with it.

And that is just as it should be.?

Dave

[Alan White]

Oh yes, so true and often at quite a cost when it and you are not suited.
 

[Timebandit]

3 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

I agree Alan. I didn't get on with the 12mm SLV I tried about a year ago. I actually preferred the NPL (albeit at 20mm and 30mm) !!?? 

But I know the SLVs are highly regarded by many and completely respect that..you just never really know if an EP will suit you until you spend an hour or two under the stars with it.

And that is just as it should be.?

Dave

 

Totally agree . I personally love the Vixen SLV type eyepieces, I don't find the twist up eyecup uncomfortable and really places the eye nicely so you get fov as well as comfortable eye relief .  These eyepieces are like Marmite, love or hate relationship. But for the price point I think they are great.

With regards to different eyepieces ,they can also  react differently to my eyes depending what scope they are used in and viewing conditions. There are some eyepieces that I love using in some scopes ,but others scopes they just don't seem to perform as well to my eyes.   

Each to our own I suppose, if you love using a eyepiece and your eyes are getting great view's then stick with them?

 

 

[Louis D]

8 minutes ago, Timebandit said:

These eyepieces are like Marmite, love or hate relationship.

All this talk of Marmite makes me want to search it out and try it now.

I wonder how the original LVs compare to the SLVs with respect to ease of eye placement.  I never noticed any issues with my 9mm LV.  No kidney beaning, no fussiness.

24 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

I actually preferred the NPL (albeit at 20mm and 30mm) !!?? 

You're getting into the range where you naturally get long eye relief, so specialized designs are no longer necessary for viewing comfort.  Perhaps for improved edge correction, but not for eye relief.

[Alan White]

9 minutes ago, Louis D said:

All this talk of Marmite makes me want to search it out and try it now.

Really Louis, but you might hate it!  Nice on toasted bread.

Also sold around the world as Vegamite and other similar names, Vegex in the USA perhaps.
 

Edited November 24, 2017 by Alan White

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I do not have to twist up the SLV eye cups, so they don't bother me one bit. I didn't get on with the old LV stiff rubber eye cup, not so much because they needed to be folded back (which got difficult, especially in the cold), but because the caps didn't fit when the eye cup was folded back, so I couldn't store them like that. For me, the SLV is an improvement in that sense. The only LVW I have is the 42, and that has a similar eye cup. It isn't as stiff as the LV 9 and LV 7 I had, however. I use it quite rarely, as the Nagler 31T5 "Panzerfaust" usually gives me enough true FOV, so I don't mind faffing around with the eye cup that much

[John]

I agree very much that eyepiece preferences are a very personal thing. Once you get to a certain level of optical quality ergonomic issues tend to play a bigger part in whether or not you decide that it's a "keeper" or not.

I found this with the Nagler 13mm Type 6 recently. This eyepiece used to be one of my all time favourites when I owned it a few years back. I recently acquired another one to fill a gap in my 1.25" set but I just didn't take to it this time around. I'm sure the quality is just as good as the earlier one I owned. I guess my preferences have changed subtly over the past 3 years or so

Conversely I've owned Nagler 3-6 zooms at least twice before (maybe 3 times ?) and not held onto them for long but the Nagler 2-4 zoom that I have now, which is pretty much exactly the same to use, is now a highly used and an important part of my toolbox. I'm very comfortable with it.

"Go figure ", as our US friends say

 

[Timebandit]

29 minutes ago, John said:

I agree very much that eyepiece preferences are a very personal thing. Once you get to a certain level of optical quality ergonomic issues tend to play a bigger part in whether or not you decide that it's a "keeper" or not.

I found this with the Nagler 13mm Type 6 recently. This eyepiece used to be one of my all time favourites when I owned it a few years back. I recently acquired another one to fill a gap in my 1.25" set but I just didn't take to it this time around. I'm sure the quality is just as good as the earlier one I owned. I guess my preferences have changed subtly over the past 3 years or so

Conversely I've owned Nagler 3-6 zooms at least twice before (maybe 3 times ?) and not held onto them for long but the Nagler 2-4 zoom that I have now, which is pretty much exactly the same to use, is now a highly used and an important part of my toolbox. I'm very comfortable with it.

"Go figure ", as our US friends say

 

 

I sometimes wonder how close in performance an eyepiece from the same manufacturer of the same type are of  equal quality. Obviously there must be differences in batches quality of raw materials to produce a certain quality of glass ?. Also over time periods and possible cost cutting does different batches produce different quality optics of the same type eyepiece. The machine/polish process , does this differ from batch to batch or year to year ? Does improvement in technology in manufacturing also Improve the quality of an eyepiece or even drive the quality down due to cost cutting to supply the same eyepiece at a certain price point. There are a lot of factors that could potentially lead to supposedly the same eyepiece from the same manufacturer produced in a different batch or different time of technology being of a difference in quality. Also does the end product quantity control differ depending on what the manufacturers aim is , maximum profit or maximum performance. Depending who is in charge i suppose this can vary the level of quality control. So you could get supposedly the same eyepiece produced three years apart being different in quality due to the level of quality control that is expected.

,Makes you wonder if your chosen eyepiece type from the same manufacturer is as good or better than one manufactured in a different batch or a different year?    

 

[rwilkey]

I have just bought the XW10 from a fellow SGLer and am looking forward to using it soon, loved your report, so thanks for that.

[Alan White]

1 hour ago, rwilkey said:

I have just bought the XW10 from a fellow SGLer and am looking forward to using it soon, loved your report, so thanks for that.

I hope you are as pleased with it as I am with my one.
 

 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Alan White

[25585]

On 23 November 2017 at 20:55, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

XWs are just awesome, aren't they! I have the 5, 7 and 10mm and they are all superb (all second-hand!!). I also have a Delos 8mm, which can be made parfocal with the XWs with a ring, and it is just as good, I would say. Having said that, the much cheaper Vixen SLVs are very, very close in terms of quality an comfort, and only lag in field of view.

Had I not been lucky on a good buy for an 8mm LVW on ebay, I would have bought the 7mm XW I think. 

XW eye cups unscrew completely giving a little extra eye relief if needed. 

Pentax are like the Vixens good for spotting scopes too, so can be used for nature watching. 

Edited December 2, 2017 by 25585

[S.A.M]

The WX eye pieces are very good, I use them most of the time when I go out and do some viewing, if ever the clouds will go away!

[Alan White]

Just wondering how the family will react to no Christmas Presents to allow a 7 and 5 xw to join my ep case?

Hmmmmm, very tempting.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Alan White

[Timebandit]

34 minutes ago, Alan White said:

Just wondering how the family will react to no Christmas Presents to allow a 7 and 5 xw to join my ep case?

Hmmmmm, very tempting.

 

 

I am sure they would understand your priorities?

 

Take them out and show them some of the lovely views of Glob clusters, these are priceless and a feast for the eye's ? ?

 

 

 

[John]

2 hours ago, Alan White said:

Just wondering how the family will react to no Christmas Presents to allow a 7 and 5 xw to join my ep case?

Hmmmmm, very tempting.

Last year I added the 10 and 7 to the 5 and 3.5 that I already had. I got impatient waiting for used ones so gave FLO my business as their prices are good for the XW's.

[Alan White]

I am working on fund raising for the 7 and 5 now John,

Christmas is so over rated, it’s the thought rather than size of present that counts.......

or Christmas Beans on Toast, these big meals are so over rated too.....

Turn off the heating for January......hmmmmm not so sure on this one?

Edited December 17, 2017 by Alan White