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Which APO refractor


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4 hours ago, dweller25 said:

Hello Tim,

Just out of curiosity which refractor do you think he might say ?

I don't want to put words in Es' mouth of course :) but last time we met he mentioned the Esprit 150. Maybe it was out of politeness as we were stood next to mine at the time, but he said the same a year before and he didn't know I had one then!

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44 minutes ago, Tim said:

I don't want to put words in Es' mouth of course :) but last time we met he mentioned the Esprit 150. Maybe it was out of politeness as we were stood next to mine at the time, but he said the same a year before and he didn't know I had one then!

That f6 130 A-P is tempting, so is the Esprit. What are the OG diameter steps recommended with fracs? I think dobs are 4 ins, cats 2 ins. Moving up from a 4 inch to 6 on a frac, is that a whole step or more?

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For imaging you can acheive a very fine pixel scale with a large refractor so I'd keep well away from Skywatcher mounts, excellent as they are for the price.  I'd also stay away from the IT-intensive options because IT products are the least reliable products in the world. I like the mechanical excellence of the Mesu 200, two of which I run commercially without issue. Payload is not the issue at high resolution. The issue is accuracry.

If money is no object then go for AP, TEC, TMB, Tak... While a good Esprit is pobably on a par with most of those the QC world champions are the first two. Takahashi are in the QC doldrums at the moment - and I'm a fan.

Olly

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2 hours ago, Tim said:

I don't want to put words in Es' mouth of course :) but last time we met he mentioned the Esprit 150. Maybe it was out of politeness as we were stood next to mine at the time, but he said the same a year before and he didn't know I had one then!

This is my own experience ......

I owned and compared side by side a Skywatcher 100ED and a Takahashi TSA102 on the planets.

The Tak was slightly brighter, had slightly more contrast and was slightly sharper than the Skywatcher. The Skywatcher cost 1/4th of the Tak price and the Tak was not 4 times better !!

So to come back to the OP's original question - IMHO the smart money is probably with the Skywatcher, the money no object is definitely with the premium brands :happy7:

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1 hour ago, 25585 said:

That f6 130 A-P is tempting, so is the Esprit. What are the OG diameter steps recommended with fracs? I think dobs are 4 ins, cats 2 ins. Moving up from a 4 inch to 6 on a frac, is that a whole step or more?

I find that it depends a little on the scopes concerned. My ED120 is a noticable step up from my Vixen 102ED but the Takahashi FC-100DL seems to perform very much like the ED120 in many ways. The TMB/LZOS 130 is a step up again over the ED120 and the Tak.

I've not owned a 6" refractor in the same league as the Tak or the TMB/LZOS so I've not had  the chance to have a premium 5" vs 6" battle, yet.

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On 19 November 2017 at 10:07, ampleamp said:

Having returned an Esprit 150 I went with the APM 152 when i had to make a choice and have no regrets. Yes it is expensive (!) but the colour correction and resolution are superb in a refractor model, and no refraction spikes ?. I have no doubts that the Tak is fabulous  

I would question whether the EQ6-R is heavy enough for the job. Less critical if you aren’t imaging but check weight limits and give yourself some comfort room. 

Ampleamp what about it made you return the 150 Esprit please?

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25585, I had an Esprit 150 shortly after they came out. A very good scope indeed but for some reason mine threw diffraction spikes on medium to bright stars. I tried all sorts of testing with the (offline) assistance of Steve Richards and eventually it went down to Steve Collingwood who repeated the spikes. In the meantime I had removed 2 or 3 x 10mm metal spicules from the baffle plates and smoothed out some metallic crud, but unfortunately they were not the cause and the spikes remained. 

After both Steves had exhausted what they could do, FLO gave me a refund ?? as I couldn’t bring myself to try another, so I spent even more on a TMB/APM 152. 

I think Olly mentioned QC. I hope I just bought a lemon as most others seem very happy with theirs. 

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On 20/11/2017 at 19:00, ollypenrice said:

                       

If money is no object then go for AP, TEC, TMB, Tak... While a good Esprit is pobably on a par with most of those the QC world champions are the first two. Takahashi are in the QC doldrums at the moment - and I'm a fan.

Olly

 

 

2 hours ago, 25585 said:

Ampleamp what about it made you return the 150 Esprit please?

 

 

11 minutes ago, ampleamp said:

25585, I had an Esprit 150 shortly after they came out. A very good scope indeed but for some reason mine threw diffraction spikes on medium to bright stars. I tried all sorts of testing with the (offline) assistance of Steve Richards and eventually it went down to Steve Collingwood who repeated the spikes. In the meantime I had removed 2 or 3 x 10mm metal spicules from the baffle plates and smoothed out some metallic crud, but unfortunately they were not the cause and the spikes remained. 

After both Steves had exhausted what they could do, FLO gave me a refund ?? as I couldn’t bring myself to try another, so I spent even more on a TMB/APM 152. 

I think Olly mentioned QC. I hope I just bought a lemon as most others seem very happy with theirs. 

 

 

I suppose this is where buying from a good reputable supplier comes into play. And I understand FLO offer a ES Reid check on the Esprit. And if I was putting out around 4k on a Esprit 150 then for an extra £75 then it seems very worthwhile. As I would sleep so much better knowing my 4k scope was not a lemon before it was sent to me  and had been checked over by an expert for QC☺

 

 

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This thread seems to be turning into a discussion on 150mm refractors. Just to clear things up, I will not be going that big. At the moment I am looking for recomendations on a top class 4" -5" which would be portable. Also a portable mount as I have to travel to image / observe. Next year when I get my observatory built, well that is a different kettle of fish. At the moment it is between the Esprit 100 or 120 and the TMB 107.

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37 minutes ago, D Wright said:

This thread seems to be turning into a discussion on 150mm refractors. Just to clear things up, I will not be going that big. At the moment I am looking for recomendations on a top class 4" -5" which would be portable. Also a portable mount as I have to travel to image / observe. Next year when I get my observatory built, well that is a different kettle of fish. At the moment it is between the Esprit 100 or 120 and the TMB 107.

Thats a helpful clarification. Your initial post did say up to 150mm triplet so I guess folks thought that they might be "in the frame".

Refractors do seem to get a lot larger and bulkier when they hit the 6" aperture.

I don't know what your budget is but when I was looking for something of this type last year the Takahashi TSA120 was high on my shortlist. It seems to combine superb build and optical quality in a relatively lightweight tube. In the end I decided to hang onto my Skywatcher ED120 in this niche and went for apertures either side of this.

Roger Vine is an excellent UK based scope reviewer who's reports I found very useful:

http://scopeviews.co.uk/

 

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4 minutes ago, D Wright said:

This is getting complicated. I have just been looking at the Takahashi FSQ-106. I could be very tempted !

As I posted earlier in the thread, when the budget is generous the choice is wider and in some ways, harder.

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2 hours ago, John said:

Thats a helpful clarification. Your initial post did say up to 150mm triplet so I guess folks thought that they might be "in the frame".

Refractors do seem to get a lot larger and bulkier when they hit the 6" aperture.

I don't know what your budget is but when I was looking for something of this type last year the Takahashi TSA120 was high on my shortlist. It seems to combine superb build and optical quality in a relatively lightweight tube. In the end I decided to hang onto my Skywatcher ED120 in this niche and went for apertures either side of this.

 

I am considering another refractor in time for Christmas.

Is a Featherlite focuser much better than the OE one?

 

 

 

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On 19/11/2017 at 13:10, 25585 said:

I have a 100mm frac already. Another 30mm for the same money on an elderly pre-owned scope v another 50mm on a new one. 

Been there with binoculars (on a smaller scale) old 1974 Carl Zeiss beaten by new Bushnell bins. 

You're of course entitled to your opinion, but I myself would take Astro Physics QC over Skywatcher QC any time..elderly scope or not, quality is quality, assuming it's been well looked after☺.

I owned a 23 year old D&G 5" F15 US built achromat, and it beat the pants off any other 5" modern frac I have looked through, my current Tak FS128 excepted..and the Tak edges the D&G only on CA, not contrast or resolution (and being easier to handle at half the length!?).

Dave

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TEC are now offering a 10" flourite triplet apo - If you have to ask the price you can't afford it but doesn't sound like you have to ask :D Seriously though, the TEC 140 is an excellent scope big enough to have some grunt and small enough not to require much grunt to move about. If down the track you will have an observatory (I've just completed mine and it's been a real game changer under UK skies) then presumably you'd like your current purchase to serve as a portable scope once the big one is permanently housed. The 140 would be excellent in that role. 

http://www.telescopengineering.com/

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Well I have reached a decision. For a portable(ish) set up I have just ordered a Skywatcher EQ6-R pro and a Skywatcher Esprit 100 APO triplet. I went for this because of the f ratio of f5.5 and the weight of 6.3kg. Also having talked to the people at Harrisons Telescopes they assured me that out of about 3 dozen Esprits they have sold over the last couple of years, they have not had one returned. For my phtography business I have also just bought a Canon 5D mk4 and a 70-200mm f2.8L IS lens. These should be very good for camera and lens astro photography. When I get my observatory built I will be having another think about what to get.

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