Danger - I tried goto and I liked it!

[Ger]

2 hours ago, JOC said:

You must have regularly clearer skies in Dublin than we do here!  I'd love to be in a situation currently of just seeing some stars!

This Nexus Pushto system you are all raving about - is it just a Goto under a different name or does it work differently?

joc

the skies here are a mixed bag, like a lot of people I can go days or weeks without clear skies, sometimes the clear skies can disappear quickly and arrive the same way, for me it's just a case of watching weather app and taking advantage

[estwing]

Goto....not for me thanks...think of it this way, when you go fishing does someone point to where the fish are?...soon become a very boring pastime...learn the skies,use charts, get good at it...stop cheating!

[faulksy]

7 minutes ago, estwing said:

Goto....not for me thanks...think of it this way, when you go fishing does someone point to where the fish are?...soon become a very boring pastime...learn the skies,use charts, get good at it...stop cheating!

you love my system calv

[JG777]

2 hours ago, JOC said:

You must have regularly clearer skies in Dublin than we do here!  I'd love to be in a situation currently of just seeing some stars!

This Nexus Pushto system you are all raving about - is it just a Goto under a different name or does it work differently?

There are two versions of Nexus, both require encoders fitted to your mount. One is a WiFi enabled box that connects to sky safari app on tablet or phone and as described earlier after a 2 star alignment you push the scope manually using the tablets screen to locate target, the other is Nexus DSC which is a full featured computer with many catalogues and thousands of targets, can also be used with sky safari although you don't need it. The on-board GPS takes care of location and time. Here's a pic of my set up, AYO encodered mount with the Nexus DSC. Once aligned you push the scope in the directions of 2 arrows, then nudge the scope as required. Nexus DSC has a rechargeable battery that lasts about 20 hours. 

Wonderfully simple, quiet and accurate. Easy to use but it is just as or in many cases more expensive than regular Goto. 

 

[JOC]

36 minutes ago, JG777 said:

Here's a pic of my set up, AYO encodered mount with the Nexus DSC

That looks a lovely neat and tidy setup I'm impressed!  Is there a limit as to how fast you can push the scope and still have the encoders keep up?  I know with the goto it always seems painfully slow when it is under its own propulsion - I think I can make it quicker, but I haven't found the right button yet.  However, the system on my telescope does claim that you can also do some pushing to speed things up without upsetting it too much - what the system doesn't appear to tell me is in what direction I need to push and when you need to stop - this is what you seem to get with the Nexus.  I haven't actually really used the Goto enough to be able to say with certainty that pushing the system doesn't upset things.  What I have realised I need to be careful with is - not pushing it too hard!  Otherwise I pivot the mount itself on the ground and that chucks everything off centre and I'm back to square one!  However, what I have been getting to grips with lately is remembering that I can use the goto arrows on the keyboard to do gentle powered centring of objects in the EP esp. when calibrating and using that aspect of the system is far more accurate that me trying to position objects manually in the middle of the EP.  I haven't had the chance to try it yet, but I have purchased an illuminated X-hairs EP and I am hopeful that this will be useful when centring objects esp. when used with the powered arrow buttons to tweak the setting.   

[JG777]

1 hour ago, JOC said:

That looks a lovely neat and tidy setup I'm impressed!  Is there a limit as to how fast you can push the scope and still have the encoders keep up?  I know with the goto it always seems painfully slow when it is under its own propulsion - I think I can make it quicker, but I haven't found the right button yet. 

However, the system on my telescope does claim that you can also do some pushing to speed things up without upsetting it too much - what the system doesn't appear to tell me is in what direction I need to push and when you need to stop - this is what you seem to get with the Nexus.  I haven't actually really used the Goto enough to be able to say with certainty that pushing the system doesn't upset things.  What I have realised I need to be careful with is - not pushing it too hard!  Otherwise I pivot the mount itself on the ground and that chucks everything off centre and I'm back to square one!  However, what I have been getting to grips with lately is remembering that I can use the goto arrows on the keyboard to do gentle powered centring of objects in the EP esp. when calibrating and using that aspect of the system is far more accurate that me trying to position objects manually in the middle of the EP.  I haven't had the chance to try it yet, but I have purchased an illuminated X-hairs EP and I am hopeful that this will be useful when centring objects esp. when used with the powered arrow buttons to tweak the setting.   

Not sure which system you have, guessing SW Dob in which case if same as Celestron you can change the initial slew speed to the fastest using the number buttons on the HC. Towards the end of the slew it slows down and locates the target. It sounds like some tweaking and fine tuning will help you a lot.

The Nexus DSC shows 2 arrows for Alt and Az plus the position numbers for the target. You move the scope in the direction of the arrows and the numbers decrease to zeros when centred. In actual use you just need to get close to those zeros and you will likely find your target in a 20mm EP. You have to really swing it around fast to suffer encoder lag bordering on the reckless to be fair! To give you an idea I move the scope probably twice as fast as my Evo 9.25 on full speed and the encoders keep up. Of course you lose a bit of time homing in on those zeros but as mentioned if your alignment is good you can be off the zeros and find the target.

An illuminated reticule EP is a great addition and will help you centre a star, I use one as well, but you can also defocus an alignment star into a big doughnut to help centre it.

 

[JOC]

10 minutes ago, JG777 said:

but you can also defocus an alignment star into a big doughnut to help centre it.

That's a good idea that hadn't occurred to me :-D  I often defocus to a doughnut in order to check the collimation believing that if the doughnut is symmetrical the collimation is probably OK, but it hadn't occurred to me that it would also make it easier to see when things were central as it would be easier to guage the distances to the edge of the view.  I'll certainly give that a try :-D  Also, I'll get the manual out for the goto and find out that setting which will make it drive a bit more swiftly - I know its in there somewhere - I can only watch paint dry for just so long LOL

[Alan White]

3 hours ago, JG777 said:

There are two versions of Nexus, both require encoders fitted to your mount. One is a WiFi enabled box that connects to sky safari app on tablet or phone and as described earlier after a 2 star alignment you push the scope manually using the tablets screen to locate target, the other is Nexus DSC which is a full featured computer with many catalogues and thousands of targets, can also be used with sky safari although you don't need it. The on-board GPS takes care of location and time. Here's a pic of my set up, AYO encodered mount with the Nexus DSC. Once aligned you push the scope in the directions of 2 arrows, then nudge the scope as required. Nexus DSC has a rechargeable battery that lasts about 20 hours. 

Wonderfully simple, quiet and accurate. Easy to use but it is just as or in many cases more expensive than regular Goto. 

 

John,

Your setup is a thing of beauty.
I have seen your picture of your kit before and suffered kit envy - and I do again now, wonderful set up.

 

[JG777]

4 minutes ago, Alan White said:

John,

Your setup is a thing of beauty.
I have seen your picture of your kit before and suffered kit envy - and I do again now, wonderful set up.

 

Thank you Sir, kind of you to say so.

[John]

My colleagues at the astro society mostly use GOTO scopes. With my entirely manual ones I'm usually up and running around 20 mins before anyone else and busy observing objects while they are still getting their power supplies sorted and mounts aligned. It's all good fun though and the visitors don't really care how the scope works as long as they see something exciting through it !

 

[alanjgreen]

6 hours ago, JOC said:

You must have regularly clearer skies in Dublin than we do here!  I'd love to be in a situation currently of just seeing some stars!

This Nexus Pushto system you are all raving about - is it just a Goto under a different name or does it work differently?

I am using this 12v wifi version of Nexus on my DOB

http://www.astrodevices.com//Products/Nexus/Nexus.html

It has many more connections available than I am using but the cheaper alternative "Nexus II" is only 9v and therefore cannot be easily powered from my 12v battery.

http://www.astrodevices.com//Products/NexusII/index.html

You need to fit 2x encoders (one for altitude and one for azimuth) to your dob (David Lukehurst fitted some 10K US Digital encoders to mine when he built it)

- 10K is the click count for a complete 360 degree rotation

- Higher click count means that you must turn it more slowly (I think?) but it is more accurate than lower click counts. 10K is the standard encoder count these days and the most cost effective. There is a premium of +50% if you want the next higher = 32K encoders

- there is a setting within the Nexus where you tell it how many clicks your encoders have (simples!)

Here is a link to an encoder kit that you can buy at the same time as the Nexus purchase (from astrodevices)

http://www.astrodevices.com/shop/index.php?product/page/12/Sky-Watcher+Classic+%26+Collapsible+Encoder+Kit

"Serge" is the main man at astrodevices (based in Australia) and he is brilliant. If you email him and discuss your requirements he can make-up and supply everything needed (including any additional cables that you want making up!) to get your conversion to "push-to" done. [ Note that you have to pay customs charges when the stuff arrives in the UK but it gets here in under a week! ]

FINALLY, you then need an "app" (on ipad or phone) than can connect to the Nexus wifi network (the nexus unit creates a wifi network) and provide you with a view of the sky so you can "see where the scope is pointing"

- astrodevices do provide a free app for this but i find sky safari 5 to be far superior (but then its not free!)

Here a couple of pics off the web showing alt & az encoders connected to a Nexus (like mine)

HTH,

Alan

[JOC]

I am now Nexus wiser - thanks all :-D

[scarp15]

I have begun to become a little dependent on my satnav for finding places (such as commuting Newcastle to Sunderland) where by I need to get to for work, it removes some of the stress for navigating, yet what I have discovered is that I heed less attention to landmarks, route directions, as I gain in dependence on just the satnav. So on repeat visits, I may still just use the satnav and do not feel necessarily confident enough to just drive there (ridiculous). 

When I get to venture to a dark sky site, 50% of the reason for going, is to simply to gaze upwards and to try to visually reckon where particular targets may be located. In the past two years, this has not been made easier, as I now need to faff with reading glasses as well as my magnifier and dim red light straining to see my paper charts and prepared notes. Yet I would have it no other way, as I calculate an orthodox (or unorthodox) star hop in pursuit of locating an obscure object. Sometimes (well actually sometimes often) when approaching something new and particularly when overhead, I may need to keep going back to those charts, specs, magnifier etc for repeated comprehension and orientation. This process sharpens my aptitude in reading a small area of sky, scrutinising it yet further through the finder, telrad, finder eyepiece - and sometimes can be quite a slow procedure. When the target suddenly comes into view it is well, quite exciting the 'discovery' can be quite a moment. At the same time if unsuccessful (sometimes, sometimes often) it just requires, applying simple tools and methods, a little more consideration, attention and perhaps research. I think that, for as long as I am able to enjoy stargazing at dark sky locations, I just want to test my own sense of ability and adventure.

[niallk]

10 hours ago, estwing said:

Goto....not for me thanks...think of it this way, when you go fishing does someone point to where the fish are?...soon become a very boring pastime...learn the skies,use charts, get good at it...stop cheating!

Yup, I defo admit that I feel like I am cheating

[GavStar]

After using slo mo manual mounts for 4 years, I've rediscovered goto mounts in the  past few months. It's allowed me to enjoy my heavily light polluted back garden much more. In addition I've loved the tracking which has allowed me to concentrate on objects more easily.

For dark sites I think I'd be very happy with either..,

[GavStar]

Another advantage of goto from my experiences last night - easy location of objects near the zenith. I use red dot finders and they are a right pain for zenith objects, usually involving me lying on the cold ground and craning my head uncomfortably. 

No issues last night with my new goto mount - i only used my finder once at the start for alignment and then I was just sat at the eyepiece for the rest of the evening!

[25585]

Before investing in an expensive mount for my larger scopes, I think maybe a small scope on a Goto just to try the feasibility of it would be good. So considering https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130p-synscan-az-goto.html

I would prefer the 150 but its only in a GEM package, so presumably requires the dreaded polar alignment first.

[GavStar]

I really like the skywatcher az-gti goto Mount, so I think the following would be good as a feasibility test and you could easily use the mount for other smallish scopes as well 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi/sky-watcher-explorer-130ps-az-gti.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az-gti.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi/sky-watcher-skymax-102-az-gti.html

[25585]

1 hour ago, GavStar said:

I really like the skywatcher az-gti goto Mount, so I think the following would be good as a feasibility test and you could easily use the mount for other smallish scopes as well 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi/sky-watcher-explorer-130ps-az-gti.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az-gti.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi/sky-watcher-skymax-102-az-gti.html

The GTI version is stronger? That 127 Mak is tempting as an alternative to the 130 

[GavStar]

8 hours ago, 25585 said:

The GTI version is stronger? That 127 Mak is tempting as an alternative to the 130 

Sorry I don’t know. But gti mount works really well with my 100mm refractor and generally seems to be well liked since it was launched in August last year

[Ruud]

Goto is wonderful! It's just that there is no sense of accomplishment when the target is found. No satisfaction.

I really liked it though for a year or so.

Now I'm all manual again and my SE goto mount is gathering dust.

[Moonshane]

My view on goto is as follows:

• I'd generally prefer a better scope or eyepiece or filter than goto so until my budget allows it there's always something else to spend my money on
• Once I get to that stage I think goto (or push to for my larger scopes e.g. 16" and 12" dobs) will become my next 'aim for'. 
• I agree with Stu on the tracking aspect and would really miss this on solar system objects and when sketching. In fact sometimes I use my 120ED on my driven eq5 in preference to fully manual larger scopes when sketching some objects as I find the tracking really helps get the sketch more accurately done
• One big thing with goto is that you will find out almost instantly if your skies / scopes will actually reveal the object concerned. Manually you can search for quite a long time before establishing that it cannot in fact be seen that night. That said, this is balanced with that manual eureka moment when something extremely faint finally pops.
• With goto I suspect you maintain your night vision slightly better. One look at the controller, set the thing running and then here it is. With manual it's glance at the red torch and map, move a bit, glimpse at the red map and torch, move a bit and every time you affect your adaptation even if it's a dim red torch. This matters a lot on faint objects.
• Yes, setting up would take longer but I think on average the number of objects seen with goto will always be higher 

So I am not against it as such, I just have lots of other things to buy. Future purchases will though certainly include a HEQ5 to replace my EQ5 and push to systems for my big dobs.

[25585]

1 hour ago, Moonshane said:

My view on goto is as follows:

• I'd generally prefer a better scope or eyepiece or filter than goto so until my budget allows it there's always something else to spend my money on
• Once I get to that stage I think goto (or push to for my larger scopes e.g. 16" and 12" dobs) will become my next 'aim for'. 
• I agree with Stu on the tracking aspect and would really miss this on solar system objects and when sketching. In fact sometimes I use my 120ED on my driven eq5 in preference to fully manual larger scopes when sketching some objects as I find the tracking really helps get the sketch more accurately done
• One big thing with goto is that you will find out almost instantly if your skies / scopes will actually reveal the object concerned. Manually you can search for quite a long time before establishing that it cannot in fact be seen that night. That said, this is balanced with that manual eureka moment when something extremely faint finally pops.
• With goto I suspect you maintain your night vision slightly better. One look at the controller, set the thing running and then here it is. With manual it's glance at the red torch and map, move a bit, glimpse at the red map and torch, move a bit and every time you affect your adaptation even if it's a dim red torch. This matters a lot on faint objects.
• Yes, setting up would take longer but I think on average the number of objects seen with goto will always be higher 

So I am not against it as such, I just have lots of other things to buy. Future purchases will though certainly include a HEQ5 to replace my EQ5 and push to systems for my big dobs.

I think there is a place for GOTO as a viewing field pointer and previewer. By that I mean running it with wide fov to your object which will show the direction and magnitudes (limited by the scope aperture) that is a litmus test on seeing and help for a manually guided larger scope, the next step from atlas, before your main scope's finder.

Does the GTI use a corded hand set as an alternative to wifi, same as the Synscan?

[Stu]

1 hour ago, 25585 said:

Does the GTI use a corded hand set as an alternative to wifi, same as the Synscan?

It is not supplied with one, but I use a Synscan handset with mine. The main driver for that was actually so I could use SkySafari via Skywire into the handset; on iOS it won't work directly as you need one device to run the Synscan app and another to run Skysafari. I do also find it a bit easier to locate the direction buttons by feel vs using the virtual buttons on the phone.

The range of objects, such as doubles or carbon stars which are so easy to choose and locate makes observing with SkySafari a much more rewarding task for me. I can star hop no problem, and enjoy it under a dark sky with a manual alt az mount, but I like to see more objects in the limited time I have available so the joy is more in the observing than finding in this case i.e. under LP at home.

[25585]

As the handset is an additional cost on the GTI, perhaps Synscan Goto makes more economic sense, albeit limited to fewer scopes.

What I want is to see how well Goto suits me on a small scale on a practical level, so as low tech as can be used. I do like the SkySafari in theory though. 

Need to find some YT videos demonstrating easy use.......