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Having Problems: Starlight Xpress 674


Peje

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I purchased this camera a few weeks ago and I've been having problems where it seems to disconnect (silently) and SG Pro can no longer talk to it, as I'm using the built-in USB hub for my SX Filter Wheel I also loose connection to it. I've had some discussions with Terry @ SX who has been helpful and provided me with a link to the latest drivers, unfortunately this doesn't seem to have resolved it.

The failure seems to be that after 3-4 hours SG Pro can't communicate with the camera, no cooler temp & no way to control it. When I look at the logs I see a string of ASCOM errors, I think these might be related to timeouts due to no comms with the camera.

I also seem to be getting odd pixel artifacts in subs and these are even coming through into the integrated image (screenshots attached). Twice last night the camera 'disconnected' in the middle of downloading an image, see attached screenshot.

So my question, has anyone else had issues with SX cameras and SG Pro? I currently doubt this is an SG Pro problem but I'd like to explore all options.

bad pixels.PNG

ha Integration.PNG

half image.PNG

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Just now, Dr_Ju_ju said:

I don't have one of your cameras\fw, but the first thing that springs to mind is the length of the USB leads between the PC and camera hub? are they 'good' quality with gold connectors (not all leads are..)

They are good quality, I use ones that have regulatory markings written down them. I appreciate this is not a guarantee but it's better than nout.

I'm going to do another library file run tonight which is about 12 hours using the loom I run out to the pier so this will tell me if it's something specific to the loom.

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I'd be inclined to look down the route of USB also.  If you are using the camera hub you can try eliminating this by temporarily running a separate USB cable to your FW just for testing, and then if that is ok link the wheel to the camera.  

I use SGP with my new 814 and have done all evening calibration frames and an all night imaging session with no issues.  I used the SX ASCOM driver (written by Bret McKee I believe) and the supplied USB cable.  I had the FW and OAG connected to the hub.

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16 minutes ago, Dr_Ju_ju said:

Hi Pete,

You don't say whether the leads are for USB 2 or 3, in any case I wouldn't recommend using leads over 3M in length, without an intermediary hub (preferably powered)

Sorry I missed that question, I use USB 3.0 leads though I don't actually connect any USB 3.0 hardware to them.

15 minutes ago, RayD said:

I'd be inclined to look down the route of USB also.  If you are using the camera hub you can try eliminating this by temporarily running a separate USB cable to your FW just for testing, and then if that is ok link the wheel to the camera.  

I use SGP with my new 814 and have done all evening calibration frames and an all night imaging session with no issues.  I used the SX ASCOM driver (written by Bret McKee I believe) and the supplied USB cable.  I had the FW and OAG connected to the hub.

Thanks guys, this is something I will look into. I am doubtful but it gives me some hope. I already have a seperate USB lead running up to the telescope for a FW (from before I decided on the SX over the Atik equivalent) so it's no hassle to plug this in.

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2 minutes ago, Peje said:

Thanks guys, this is something I will look into. I am doubtful but it gives me some hope. I already have a seperate USB lead running up to the telescope for a FW (from before I decided on the SX over the Atik equivalent) so it's no hassle to plug this in.

Definitely worth a go, at least it will eliminate that if nothing else.  You could also try uninstalling and reinstalling the driver.  I think it is pretty stable, and the only thing you'll notice with it in SGP is that there is no way of the driver reporting the percentage of power usage so this will always stay on 0% (which is a shame).

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1 minute ago, RayD said:

Definitely worth a go, at least it will eliminate that if nothing else.  You could also try uninstalling and reinstalling the driver.  I think it is pretty stable, and the only thing you'll notice with it in SGP is that there is no way of the driver reporting the percentage of power usage so this will always stay on 0% (which is a shame).

I hadn't noticed that, it sounds like a nice feature. I guess the real shame is that SG Pro don't natively support the camera drivers and rely on ASCOM. I see the benefit to their developers but it seems like a good way to give a better customer experience.

If it does turn out to be a USB issue then I do have the option to move to an active USB lead as I currently have on in the shed for my flats rig.

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2 minutes ago, Peje said:

I hadn't noticed that, it sounds like a nice feature. I guess the real shame is that SG Pro don't natively support the camera drivers and rely on ASCOM. I see the benefit to their developers but it seems like a good way to give a better customer experience.

If it does turn out to be a USB issue then I do have the option to move to an active USB lead as I currently have on in the shed for my flats rig.

Yes it is a shame.  I use the percentage calculation with my Atik cameras and it is handy as you know how much further you can push the TEC cooling.  It isn't a deal breaker but apparently it is the camera and not the driver.

I'm not sure if the hub on the camera is powered either to be honest.  I know it connects without it powered up, so it may even be the case that the power is purely for the cooling (I'm not sure on this).  If this is the case it would definitely not help using the hub over a longer distance, but again just connecting the camera and FW separately to test would confirm this.

Hope you get it sorted as the results from the bits you've posted look good.  

Do you use dithering?  If not you could use this in SGP and it should sort out those artefacts.

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1 minute ago, RayD said:

Yes it is a shame.  I use the percentage calculation with my Atik cameras and it is handy as you know how much further you can push the TEC cooling.  It isn't a deal breaker but apparently it is the camera and not the driver.

I'm not sure if the hub on the camera is powered either to be honest.  I know it connects without it powered up, so it may even be the case that the power is purely for the cooling (I'm not sure on this).  If this is the case it would definitely not help using the hub over a longer distance, but again just connecting the camera and FW separately to test would confirm this.

Hope you get it sorted as the results from the bits you've posted look good.  

Do you use dithering?  If not you could use this in SGP and it should sort out those artefacts.

You have touched on something that is a real pain point for me, the USB hub inside the camera is powered by USB but the camera itself won't connect unless it is plugged in after the PC has been booted. I'm trying to move to a setup where I can switch it on completely remotely and it looks like the SX camera isn't lending itself well to this. Combined with these weird artifacts I am thinking of sending it back and changing to an Atik 428 since it has the same sensor.

I currently use dithering, I think it is the 'very agressive' level.

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1 minute ago, Peje said:

You have touched on something that is a real pain point for me, the USB hub inside the camera is powered by USB but the camera itself won't connect unless it is plugged in after the PC has been booted. I'm trying to move to a setup where I can switch it on completely remotely and it looks like the SX camera isn't lending itself well to this. Combined with these weird artifacts I am thinking of sending it back and changing to an Atik 428 since it has the same sensor.

I currently use dithering, I think it is the 'very agressive' level.

Hmmm yes the SX wheel isn't so good for this either.  I think it is relatively common that if you plug the wheel in then don't connect to it fairly quickly you have to unplug it and plug it in again.  The way around this would be to have an active hub, one which you can switch the ports off and on, such as the one in my Pegasus hub, but of course that is another relatively big outlay.

I'm not sure the SX stuff is necessarily designed with remote imaging in mind. I certainly wouldn't use mine in my obsy which I access and operate remotely.

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3 minutes ago, RayD said:

Hmmm yes the SX wheel isn't so good for this either.  I think it is relatively common that if you plug the wheel in then don't connect to it fairly quickly you have to unplug it and plug it in again.  The way around this would be to have an active hub, one which you can switch the ports off and on, such as the one in my Pegasus hub, but of course that is another relatively big outlay.

I'm not sure the SX stuff is necessarily designed with remote imaging in mind. I certainly wouldn't use mine in my obsy which I access and operate remotely.

I'm going to think about it some more today but I get the feeling that it is doomed to just get sent back. I will keep the FW as it has given me no trouble at all.

That hub looks good too. I have IP controlled mains sockets so I think I could use that as a workaround to this problem if I got a rock solid USB hub.

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We really must stop meeting like this :wink2: 

1 hour ago, Peje said:

I've had some discussions with Terry @ SX

Terry Platt is a remarkable man, very knowledgeable and highly respected. You are in good hands.

With Terry and other SX owners here at SGL already on the case I don't think there is much I can add other than to say if you decide the camera doesn't meet your needs you are welcome to return it for refund (it doesn't need to have a fault). 

HTH, 

Steve 

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1 minute ago, FLO said:

With Terry and other SX owners here at SGL already on the case I don't think there is much I can add other than to say if you decide the camera doesn't meet your needs you are welcome to return it for refund (it doesn't need to have a fault). 

But please, please, don't attempt to modify or repair the camera :smile: 

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10 minutes ago, Peje said:

I'm going to think about it some more today but I get the feeling that it is doomed to just get sent back. I will keep the FW as it has given me no trouble at all.

That hub looks good too. I have IP controlled mains sockets so I think I could use that as a workaround to this problem if I got a rock solid USB hub.

The IP switches are good.  I have one in the obsy which has 2 outlets.  One turns on the PC, which has BIOS set to run on power up, and the other runs the 2 power supplies.  As you have them perhaps look at the Startech USB hubs which are pretty good.

It is worth seeing if you can sort it as they are good cameras and the support from SX is exceptional (Terry answers emails at all hours!).

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2 minutes ago, FLO said:

We really must stop meeting like this :wink2: 

Terry Platt is a remarkable man, very knowledgeable and highly respected. You are in good hands.

With Terry and other SX owners here at SGL already on the case I don't think there is much I can add other than to say if you decide the camera doesn't meet your needs you are welcome to return it for refund (it doesn't need to have a fault). 

HTH, 

Steve 

Thanks Steve, yes Terry is being very helpful & I hope to hear more from him today. I sent Martin an email which included the specifics of what I am discussing with Terry just so you are up to date.

I am certainly not claiming this is an inherent design problem, this seems to be specific to my setup & is perhaps just an unfortunate compatibility issue.

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Form a post a day to back Pete, you had gain set 8.2 I try this out last week and file did not download I had to restart computer. When I look at gain on my camera I get 0.3 and only have my one set in SGP to 0.4. mate just come round I add more from your post  later. 

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8 minutes ago, Starlight 1 said:

Form a post a day to back Pete, you had gain set 8.2 I try this out last week and file did not download I had to restart computer. When I look at gain on my camera I get 0.3 and only have my one set in SGP to 0.4. mate just come round I add more from your post  later. 

Thanks, I think it was my readout noise i set to 8.2 as this is what I calculated in Pixinsight from my test shots. I increased my download time to 6secs and haven't seen anymore download errors; for context, I was getting download errors from SG Pro but the files did download to the PC.

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my camera hub work  ok when turning on computer , the filter wheel do drop out a lot i put a new board in still the same, I try the reboot drivers and do help with the filter wheel droping out but not all the time.  I use two usb leads one for camera hub  and one for mount only. I put a new set of active  usb 3 leads on  still the same as useing 5m active  usb 2 leads. I all ways use active lead .  I be looking at the computer for  not starting the camera.  or the camera set up in sgp  two ways in there USB is one way.

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44 minutes ago, Starlight 1 said:

my camera hub work  ok when turning on computer , the filter wheel do drop out a lot i put a new board in still the same, I try the reboot drivers and do help with the filter wheel droping out but not all the time.  I use two usb leads one for camera hub  and one for mount only. I put a new set of active  usb 3 leads on  still the same as useing 5m active  usb 2 leads. I all ways use active lead .  I be looking at the computer for  not starting the camera.  or the camera set up in sgp  two ways in there USB is one way.

Thanks. You have two different ways in SG Pro to connect to the camera? I only have a single ASCOM.

 

I'm going to try to reproduce the problem in my shed so I can properly debug it. Plan of attack is:

  • Run darks library sequence with current cabling to act as a control run. If this doesn't produce the error then I'll stop here (and probably admit defeat and return the camera).

  • Run darks library sequence with current cabling but camera using active USB cable.

  • Run darks library sequence with current cabling but FW plugged into separate non-active USB cable.

  • Run darks library sequence powering camera with SX PSU.

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Just remembered I set the ASCOM driver to spit out logs... this is the point where it keeled over in the middle of the night:

 

03:30:31.592 17167.409723  72.466273   Write caught and is rethrowing exception ASCOM.sxCamera.usb.WriteException: WriteFile write error=121 (The semaphore timeout period has expired)) numBytesToWrite=8 numBytesWritten=0.[0D][0A]   at ASCOM.sxCamera.usb.USBInterface.Write(SX_CMD_BLOCK block, Object data)
03:30:31.592 17167.409723   0.000000   setCooler has locked
03:30:31.593 17167.410726   0.001003   Write has locked
03:30:31.593 17167.410726   0.000000   usbWrite(): unManagedBlockBuffer=0x0000000007f49040 numBytesToWrite=8
03:30:31.593 17167.410726   0.000000   Header: c0 1e e4 09 01 00 00 00
03:30:31.593 17167.410726   0.000000   get_CCDTemperature caught and is rethrowing exception ASCOM.sxCamera.usb.WriteException: WriteFile write error=121 (The semaphore timeout period has expired)) numBytesToWrite=8 numBytesWritten=0.[0D][0A]   at ASCOM.sxCamera.usb.USBInterface.Write(SX_CMD_BLOCK block, Object data)[0D][0A]   at ASCOM.sxCamera.usb.Controller.Write(SX_CMD_BLOCK block, Object data)[0D][0A]   at ASCOM.sxCamera.usb.Camera.setCoolerInfo(SX_COOLER_BLOCK& inBlock, SX_COOLER_BLOCK& outBlock)[0D][0A]   at ASCOM.sxCamera.usb.Camera.get_coolerTemp()[0D][0A]   at ASCOM.sxCamera.BaseImaging.Camera.get_CCDTemperature()
03:30:32.635 17168.452490   1.041764   Main::CanSetCCDTemperature get returns True
03:30:32.635 17168.452490   0.000000   setCoolerInfo inBlock temp=2532 enabled=1
03:30:32.635 17168.452490   0.000000   buildCommandBlock(): type=0xc0 cmd=0x1e cmd_value=0x09e4 index=0x0001 cmd_length=0x0000
03:33:31.593 17347.410315 178.957826   Write caught and is rethrowing exception ASCOM.sxCamera.usb.WriteException: WriteFile write error=121 (The semaphore timeout period has expired)) numBytesToWrite=8 numBytesWritten=0.[0D][0A]   at ASCOM.sxCamera.usb.USBInterface.Write(SX_CMD_BLOCK block, Object data)
03:33:31.593 17347.410315   0.000000   setCooler has locked

 

To my eye this looks like the USB comms has dropped out and doesn't come back. After this point it is just a loop of the same style of timeout error.

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Quick update...

The system has been running for almost 6 hours without any issues. The only difference between this and a real run is I’m shooting darks and I’m only connecting to a mount simulator rather than my actual mount, could it be possible that if the PSU was reaching capacity that the camera would cut out?

??

I’m thinking that as time moves on the cooler will have to work harder to extract the heat that builds up until it gets to an equilibrium point. If my PSU was at capacity before this point then something has to give, it is an 8A supply with heavy cable up to the pier but I have never measured the peak load.

I guess the next test would be to add a DC load of 2A @ 12vDC to simulate my mount, luckily I have one in work that I can borrow.

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