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what is barnards loop and can you spot it with 20x80 binoculars


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You won't see it from Hessle/Hull. You need a very dark, transparent sky, very good optics and probably an H-beta (or maybe a UHC) filter to see it visually, and even then you might not get it. The bit just north of M78 is the brightest. (Not seen it myself in anything smaller than 20", but apparently it's been seen in 4".)

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I have to say I've never tried for it visually though, as Steve says, observers do report seeing part of it.

As for what it is, I think the favourite theory is that it has been created by successive supernovae from around the M42 star forming region. (The Trapezium region.) While the Veil seems to have been created by a single SN the idea is that Barnard's Loop has been created over time by several. Its true form will probably be a roughly spherical bubble but only the edges have sufficient thickness from our point of view to become visible.

However, I do wonder if the entire structure isn't being swept by a particle wind or shock front from the west, the right in the image below. That side of the Loop seems to have been pushed back towards M42 and the Meissa Nebula at the top also looks, to me, as if it's being swept from the west. I've never been able to find out about this.

ORION%202014%20reprocessWEB-L.jpg

Olly

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Barnards loop is part of the Orion molecular cloud complex. It is a very faint emission nebula that stretches from Rigel to Belatrix. You might see it in Long exposure photos of Orion, but I would assume is very tricky to see visually. Maybe even impossible with the equipment that you have.

HTH

Edit: Olly beat me! And with a picture :icon_biggrin:.

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https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/264568-barnards-loop/

Barnards Loop can be seen under dark skies and VG transparency using an appropriate set up. The 90mm f7 triplet got the loop in the end as well as the SW120ED. The easiest portion is near M78 and if this isn't showing well forget the Loop.

I would think that binoculars that give the right exit pupil for use with top notch UHC's might show Barnards Loop, however I can't say that this is a good object to start with without other experience viewing faint nebula.

Try it and let us know how you make out!

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Interesting. As I will be in the Alps this winter, and might visit La Palma too (work), I might try to give this a go with the 80mm F/6, and UHC filter. The location in the Alps has yielded the Horsehead, so It is a good location, but weather must be favourable. I will also try out my 85mm F/1.4 lens with H-alpha filter on the loop

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Begin with the brighter northern section, locate and then drift along from M78 across towards the open cluster NGC 2112. Visually it is very faint, under very good transparency and dark skies, sky quality at least 21.00, it may become possible to detect a faint grey and broad mist or at least a subtle change in contrast to the sky background. I have approached this with my 14" dob, aperture though is not a primary consideration. A rich field scope, possibly binoculars, low power and a good quality H-beta filter or perhaps UHC is required and only with favourable transparency and dark sky. I hope to gain an opportunity to have another go at Barnard's Loop later this year and plan to camp in the Northumberland hills, taking along my 76mm refractor, Lumicon 2" H-beta filter, low power ultra wide field e.p's, potentially to observe under SQM 21.6 skies.     

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Barnard's Loop is part of the Orion-Eridanus superbubble, a cavity carved out by stellar winds and supernovae from massive stars formed in the recent past. (Over its lifetime, the stellar wind of an O-class star may deliver a similar amount of energy to the surrounding ISM.) The material piles up at the edges and is ionized by the hot blue stars of the Orion OB association. The fainter Eridanus Loop is the other side of the bubble and is rarely imaged.

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9 minutes ago, DeepSkyBagger said:

NGC 1909

 

Ah.........ok. Thanks. I have seen pics of it before. I just didnt recognise it in the above image. Regarding Bernard's Loop.............

Cant say ive ever seen it. Ive never tried looking for it. I have both UHC and OIII filters and am a bit of a nebulae nerd. I usually just have a quick look at M42 and move on.

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It's also news to me that this is a visual object, amazing. Also amazing is Ollie's image - for those that haven't seen it I believe there is a massive resolution version lurking somewhere - I spent a long time having a space walk around that one. 

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Look guys. This basically is NOT a visual object. Under exceptional circumstances, exceptional observers might just be able to glimpse it. You must have truly superb skies and excellent conditions, and most important, you must know what you're looking for, and how to look for it. It won't look anything like the photographs. Most observers, even under the best conditions, wouldn't see it, or even recognise it for what it was if they did. 

Olly's image is beautiful and amazing, but it gives a VERY false impression of what can actually be seen. With apologies to the OP, you are not going to see this with bins from Hull. I would definitely keep it on your lifetime bucket list though, for that day when you actually do find yourself in the middle of the Australian Outback, with superb binoculars equipped with the best filters. One day it will happen, and there it'll be.

 

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This is quite correct and perhaps this topic ought not really be in a beginners section. Whilst requiring a different approach, only if your skies can support an observation of the Horse Head and associated nebula, can realistically an attempt on the northern section of Barnard's Loop, which is in the same league of difficulty, might become realist. A succession of observational sweeps starting from M78 might determine a thin grey veil or curtain, which is very subtle and quite difficult to visually register.

For many, a H-beta filter is not a priority requirement, I have had most success with this filter observing the California nebula and as an alternative observational aspect focused on the Orion Nebula, particularly gaining some contrast in the M43 region.

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19 hours ago, DeepSkyBagger said:

Look guys. This basically is NOT a visual object. Under exceptional circumstances, exceptional observers might just be able to glimpse it. You must have truly superb skies and excellent conditions, and most important, you must know what you're looking for, and how to look for it. It won't look anything like the photographs. Most observers, even under the best conditions, wouldn't see it, or even recognise it for what it was if they did. 

Olly's image is beautiful and amazing, but it gives a VERY false impression of what can actually be seen. With apologies to the OP, you are not going to see this with bins from Hull. I would definitely keep it on your lifetime bucket list though, for that day when you actually do find yourself in the middle of the Australian Outback, with superb binoculars equipped with the best filters. One day it will happen, and there it'll be.

 

As we pursue the hobby interest grows in seeing the faintest objects out there for some of us. Barnards Loop and other faint objects are challenging but perhaps underwhelming even under VG conditions.

But... some of them can offer enhanced views ie the California neb and the Crescent neb. So far, for me, Barnards Loop offers no detail like the other 2 mentioned and I'll not hold my breath that it will.

Pursuing objects like these when first starting might discourage one in the hobby- I always enjoy the brighter things first like the Flame nebula before trying one of the faint targets and there are many nights of not seeing the new faint targets. Deepskybagger you are right that Barnards Loop is a huge challenge and kudos to Scarp15 for pulling it out from the UK!

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Absolutely one aspect I have learnt, is that when you have, successfully or otherwise, attempted at visually extracting an object that is at the margin of a realistic observation, to then return attention towards a more impressionable target, the impact is often quite shockingly significant in terms of clarity and brightness. Takes me by complete surprise after time spent straining for a trace of something almost invisible.

It largely depends upon how you evolve into this hobby, tomorrow, Sunday I'm heading into the border hills on a reconnaissance walk along three small hilltops and gauge their feasibility to become a wild camp ground to haul up some astro equipment, as well as a day spent in the fresh air and in the countryside, part adventurous part obsessive and aspirational.

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YEs Ngc1909 the witch head, a reflection nebula so keep your filters off for that one. I am surprised no one has mentioned the Melissa nebula above Orion... comes out when the loop does. Seeing Orion with the sweeping loop, flame, ic434 and m42 with Meissa  on his shoulders was definitely a memorable experience from a few years back.

Transparency is key, warm yourself up on “easier” nebulae! The eridanus Loop is on my list of unseen nebulae (along with sh2-240 and sh2-91):

@mattjenko plenty of nebulae from near london, I can sympathise with your position, I suffered for many years.

 

PeterW

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A good initial warm up might be to pursue the Medusa Nebula over and along the border between Gemini and Canis Minor. A large planetary NGC 4194 / sh2-274, it is faint and will respond to a UHC or OIII filter at low power. Not familiar with the Melissa nebula from an observation perspective, never considered attempting the Witch Head is this possible in UK skies? The Eridanus Loop I believe that there has been a report on here from the UK was it Helix down in Norfolk had picked up traces of this using her large dobsonian?  Sh2-240 super nova remnant between Auriga and Taurus would be interesting to learn of this. Sh2-91 another super nova remnant the Little Veil, Gerry has had some success with this, I've had a go, one to return to next year but using my plossl eyepieces.

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16 hours ago, PeterW said:

. I am surprised no one has mentioned the Melissa nebula above Orion...

Probably because we call it the Meissa nebula - "nowell, nowell...." :D - actually, Olly did mention it (above).

On 27/10/2017 at 18:44, RobertI said:

Also amazing is Ollie's image - for those that haven't seen it I believe there is a massive resolution version lurking somewhere

On the sitting-room wall of his gîte. Utterly stunning.

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3 hours ago, BinocularSky said:

Probably because we call it the Meissa nebula - "nowell, nowell...." :D - actually, Olly did mention it (above).

On the sitting-room wall of his gîte. Utterly stunning.

Ah yes!!!!!!!!!!. The famous Ollie & Tom LARGE image of the whole of Orion. Quite stunning.

 

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