It's just one more thing to go wrong!

[carastro]

Good thinking.  

 

[swag72]

Well, I have just decided to put the AllSky on its own PC in a quest to deal with odd and frustrating behaviour. To that end I now only have the basics running on the capture PC...... well I say basics...... it wouldn't be to all ???? For the next night out

[cloudsweeper]

I tried WiFi control via a tablet, but the detail on the screen was poor, the connection kept failing, the three-star alignment was a pain, and I needed three hands to operate the whole thing.

WiFi module sold, happy again.

Doug.

[Timebandit]

 

I am afraid I am with john with this one.

I keep things as simple as possible. A manual mount , a telescope, and eyepieces. With the limited amount of time at the scope. Especially with the weather conditions in this part of the world, I want something that is up and running and me at the eyepiece at sub 5 min mark. The last thing I want to do is to set up a load of electronic equipment and even if functioning correctly can take considerable time, and if its being a pain then it can be a no go altogether. 

I want my time at the eyepiece stress free , relaxing and productive to make the most of the limited observing time available. The only electronic piece of kit I carry is a torch/light to make sure I do not break my neck :-)

Each to there own but simple set ups with the money going on aperture, and quantity optics and eyepiece was my priority, and I have no regrets in going this route instead of high tech electronic gadgets.

Obviously those who enjoy AP must ensure a lot of electronic equipment is used to get the most of the hobby. But simple visual is for me. But I do find the images produced by AP visually interesting to look at, but not for me to try and capture. Each to there own in this fascinating hobby.

 

[gorann]

4 hours ago, westmarch said:

John

I think this is where the laws of relativity kick in. You are only a low tech observer- that’s general relativity. 

Gorran is low tech for an AP. Special relativity applies to them. 

John

Yes, with AP at least one USB cable is needed for the guiding unless I sell my car and buy a super mount that can do its job without guiding.

[gorann]

4 hours ago, westmarch said:

John

I think this is where the laws of relativity kick in. You are only a low tech observer- that’s general relativity. 

Gorran is low tech for an AP. Special relativity applies to them. 

John

Yes, with AP at least one USB cable is needed for the guiding unless I sell my car and buy a super mount that can do its job without guiding.

[gorann]

4 hours ago, westmarch said:

John

I think this is where the laws of relativity kick in. You are only a low tech observer- that’s general relativity. 

Gorran is low tech for an AP. Special relativity applies to them. 

John

Sorry for the multiple posts. I pressed submit once, and then twice and still nothing seemed to happen. Just goes to show how low tech I am.....

[AngryDonkey]

With this you could be USB cable free:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p4173_Lacerta-MGEN-Stand-Alone-Autoguider-for-astrophotography.html

Although strictly speaking I think there is a USB cable connecting it to the guide camera. And of course it's another piece of electronics...  

 

[graemlourens]

My experience running a fully remote observatory for over 2 years has taught me to not change too many things at once, and keep a detailed log of what was changed (software & hardware).

Tiny changes (but few at once), i did not even give 2 thoughts about, caused the worst troubles that were not obvious to begin with. The time it took to find out what had caused the issue was extensive, because the combinations were endless and sometimes very hard to go back on (drivers / software, hardware cabling etc).

The most troublesome thing though, as many have stated here, is the problem with USB, when you have many devices and/or long cables. Not all computers handle it well, not all ports on the computer handle it equal, not all devices are fault-tolerant (for example the QHY5L-II that is a killer and in my case has to have its own cable, or it disturbs all other devices, causing them to fail with connections & drivers).

An example of an 'irrelevant' tiny change would be plugging in usb cables in different ports on the same computer. Suddenly everything starts failing, as i connected too many devices to different usb ports, that are internally linked to the same 'hub' and could not handle the load (because QHY was hogging it all...). Investigations why Focusers, Weather stations etc all are now going 'crazy' at once, takes a lot of time and nervs.

There are also many weather related issues that come in to play. For example every year, when our temperatures go -15 / -20 degrees celsius, certain devices go crazy (probably more the USB-Connections of those devices, than the devices themselves) or another example is that always between September - October every year, the weather station stops reporting wind measurements for approx 30 days (and yes - we do have wind then ). I still am trying to figure out why, but its a recurring yearly pattern that you only detect when you run things the same way for multiple years.

Just my 2 cents - hope i didn't go too much off topic here, but we're not in a 'plug and play' hobby with astrophotography... (maybe thats why its so exciting!)

Kind regards, Graem

[ollypenrice]

19 hours ago, carastro said:

Olly, I am sure I was controlling the mount via Sky 6 (I think that was what it was called) when I was at your place.  

However I agree with you - keep it simple - less to go wrong. 

But having said that I would like to be able to try out plate solving as I do have an odd occasion when setting up at an astro camp when I have difficulty finding the target so in order to do plate solving the mount has to be controlled by the laptop (EQMod).  I just wanted to see if I liked it enough to want to use it.  Plus doing repeated data of the same target when having to set up and down each time, it could be helpful.  

Carole 

You were indeed, Carole, but that was a Takahashi EM200 mount which I sold a while ago - partly because it needed PC control! Sometimes it would be randomly 'not recognized' by the PC and this was exasperating, especially as a provider.

Our two main imaging mounts are now both Mk1 Mesu 200s with the Stellarcat drive system and the excellent and self-contained ArgoNavis handset. This version of the Mesu cannot be used robotically because it has no park position, so it needs to be aligned on one star at the start of each session. That takes a good sixty seconds so it's fine by me! I realize that there are conveniences associated with full PC control but they are only conveninces shen they work and when they don't they turn into nightmares. We still have an EQ6 available and I was happy with a Mk1 Avalon, too, using EQ6 electronics and handset. I sold that to fund the second Mesu.

So I'm still a believer in handsets!

Olly

PS Another simplification we follow here is to use two PCs with the dual rig. We could use a powered hub and a single PC running two instances of the capture sofware but we don't!  

 

[gorann]

1 hour ago, graemlourens said:

My experience running a fully remote observatory for over 2 years has taught me to not change too many things at once, and keep a detailed log of what was changed (software & hardware).

Tiny changes (but few at once), i did not even give 2 thoughts about, caused the worst troubles that were not obvious to begin with. The time it took to find out what had caused the issue was extensive, because the combinations were endless and sometimes very hard to go back on (drivers / software, hardware cabling etc).

The most troublesome thing though, as many have stated here, is the problem with USB, when you have many devices and/or long cables. Not all computers handle it well, not all ports on the computer handle it equal, not all devices are fault-tolerant (for example the QHY5L-II that is a killer and in my case has to have its own cable, or it disturbs all other devices, causing them to fail with connections & drivers).

 

Very good to know about the QHY5L-II messing things up. Not something one immediately would suspect. That is my guide camera too and it tells me that I need it on a separate computer when I start using a PC for the imaging.

[graemlourens]

10 minutes ago, gorann said:

Very good to know about the QHY5L-II messing things up. Not something one immediately would suspect. That is my guide camera too and it tells me that I need it on a separate computer when I start using a PC for the imaging.

Don't get me wrong, the QHY5L-II is a great camera for its price (since it has its own cable, directly to the computer, and not through any hub, it hasn't failed once!), but i have heard it operates on the upper limit of the USB 2.0 bandwidth and its driver is very unstable, causing a lot of PHD2 'Camera timeout' issues. You'll find dozens of threads concerning that, and its not hard to reproduce, even with a powered USB-Hub. The problem why you then suddenly suspect your hub, is because all other devices also start to experience timeouts, and that will send you on an endless search...

Kind regards, Graem

[carastro]

Quote

So I'm still a believer in handsets!

Olly

PS Another simplification we follow here is to use two PCs with the dual rig. We could use a powered hub and a single PC running two instances of the capture sofware but we don't!  

Man after my own heart.  I would not rely on PC control alone even if I was using it, always have the handset as a back up.  Some people seem to manage though, but others seem to have loads of problems which I could do without. 

Carole 

[London_David]

Looks like I’m in the minority here but I find working with the tech part of the fun and the challenge.

That said, I often find Windows very frustrating - and it is the core of my system. I could do without the OS just doing bad stuff to me. From from random unwanted updates at inopportune moments, to running out of disk space because of OS temp files, to the occasional mysterious RDP failure, it drives me crazy at least once a month. 

But you take the rough with the smooth.

[gorann]

Windows is the extra hurdle for me. I have been a Mac person since the 80ties, but bought a Windows lap top to run the AP stuff since I have the feeling that much of what I will use, or may use in the future, are Windows programs. So, I am constantly struggling with simple things like just figuring out the filing system and finding the files after a web download. Fortunately my wife is a Windows person but sometimes her patience with me for not understanding the simplest things can be a bit short so I always try first myself with variable success.

[AngryDonkey]

1 hour ago, gorann said:

So, I am constantly struggling with simple things like just figuring out the filing system and finding the files after a web download.

I'm exactly the opposite . Have been running virtual Windows on a Mac for years now but still can't get to grips with the Mac OS. Just goes to show what creatures of habit we are...

[ollypenrice]

18 hours ago, London_David said:

 

But you take the rough with the smooth.

I don't! I keep the PC and Bill (Blankety) Gates at arm's length!

lly

[Stub Mandrel]

Mouse pad on my laptop, it stops working if it dews up!

Optical mouse is fine, but I have to use it on my trouser leg!

[carastro]

Quote

Mouse pad on my laptop, it stops working if it dews up!

I keep my laptop inside a plastic box when i am imaging, only open it from time to time when I want to check on how things are going.  

Carole 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

I was thinking about a box with a 'view port' to keep the light under control.

[geoflewis]

1 hour ago, carastro said:

I keep my laptop inside a plastic box when i am imaging, only open it from time to time when I want to check on how things are going. 

 

2 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I was thinking about a box with a 'view port' to keep the light under control.

I used to use one of these, before I move everyting into my observatory which has a warm room.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/162646663680?chn=ps&dispItem=1&adgroupid=45192391362&rlsatarget=pla-327465396690&abcId=1129006&adtype=pla&merchantid=113799507&poi=&googleloc=1007261&device=c&campaignid=861899735&crdt=0

Its not cheap but does the job perfectly and is light weight packs away flat for easy transortation.

[carastro]

I have a plastic box which has two flaps for a lid that interlock.  I cut holes in the sides to allow cables to pass through, really protects the laptop from the dew.

I have also used a box where I just pull the lid on and off as required.

I also put the electrics in another box to keep them off the ground and to try to keep as much damp away as possible.

Carole 

 

 

[carastro]

Quote

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/162646663680?chn=ps&dispItem=1&adgroupid=45192391362&rlsatarget=pla-327465396690&abcId=1129006&adtype=pla&merchantid=113799507&poi=&googleloc=1007261&device=c&campaignid=861899735&crdt=0

Its not cheap but does the job perfectly and is light weight packs away flat for easy transortation.

That does look good, my box is a lot cheaper though, and I pack all my bits and pieces in it for travelling so although it is bulky it has a use.  

[geoflewis]

1 minute ago, carastro said:

That does look good, my box is a lot cheaper though, and I pack all my bits and pieces in it for travelling so although it is bulky it has a use.

Hi Carole, yes the Walimex pop up tent is good and was certainly convenient when I kept a lot of my gear in a limited storage utility room cupboard, though I did baulk at the price somewhat. I still have it, though it hasn't been used for the past 18 months as no longer required - like a lot of my gear I've kept it in case I ever want to take something to use at a star party, but that hasn't happened in a while. Your solution looks really great and is probably better protection overall, plus I like the dual purpose of being able to pack gear to transport in it .

[RichLD]

FWIW I have found out, by a mixture of extensive research and (more importantly) trial and error that the majority of usb issues tend to be power related, with poor mechanical/electrical contact coming in a close second -  I concentrated on refining these two areas and I seem to have cracked the issues I was having. I cascade 2 x 4 port powered usb hubs and have one usb 2.0 connection going to a NUC and haven't had a single problem in over 2 years on my portable set up.

The hubs (2 x Startech 4 port industrial) handle 2 imaging cameras (QHY9/QHY163m) a guide camera (SSAG), a Polemaster and the mount (HEQ5).