I did something wrong but I don't know what.

[Galen Gilmore]

This is 120x27 exposures of the double cluster taken from a light polluted sky without a LP filter.

Anybody know why it is so flat and color-less?

No matter what I did I couldn't make it pop.

 

[MarsG76]

Did you use the DSLR? and did you capture in RAW format? And did you stack the RAW files directly, perhaps with Nebulosity? 

This happened to me when I tried to stak my Canon 40D RAW files directly in Nebulosity, (Of course I don't think that its limited to nebulosity, just the way that some software or plugins decode raw files). It seems like some software strips the color data from RAW files prior stacking, or during reading and decoding.

As a work around I convert the RAW files to 16bit TIFFs in Photoshop before stacking, this way you'll keep your color data. As a added bonus, photoshop CameraRaw is very good at removing noise, and only noise from your RAW subs, so you end up with a cleaner image.

 

[ollypenrice]

The image is clearly in greyscale format here, so somewhere along the line the colour has been discarded. Did you stack in DSS? This has come up before but I don't use DSS myself so I'm not sure of the right procedure. You will find the colour though, fear not.

Olly

[wxsatuser]

Thing is if we are dealing with RAW files it's up to you to bring out the colour.
It's exactly the same for daylight photography, RAW files are dark, lacking colour, contrast etc.
It really is upto the photographer to get the best out of RAW, don't expect DSS to do this for you.
DSS via dcraw decodes the RAW's but you will not get colour like you see on the back of camera display,
as that is a processed RAW, normally a jpg.

AFAIK DSS does not discard colour but there is a setting if you think the images are to grey.

[wxsatuser]

This is what a linear dslr image looks like, viewed in Canon DPP and the second image is
the same file with a tone curve as you would see on the back of the camera.
As you see the linear has virtually no colour and is very dark with no contrast.
It's up to you and your software to get the best out of it.

BTW DSS Autosave tifs will look exactly like the linear image, very dark etc.

Linear

Tone curve applied

[alacant]

Hi. If you can post -a link to- the stack, we can have a look. Cheers.

[Galen Gilmore]

Hi thanks for the replies.

10 hours ago, MarsG76 said:

Did you use the DSLR? and did you capture in RAW format? And did you stack the RAW files directly, perhaps with Nebulosity? 

This happened to me when I tried to stak my Canon 40D RAW files directly in Nebulosity, (Of course I don't think that its limited to nebulosity, just the way that some software or plugins decode raw files). It seems like some software strips the color data from RAW files prior stacking, or during reading and decoding.

As a work around I convert the RAW files to 16bit TIFFs in Photoshop before stacking, this way you'll keep your color data. As a added bonus, photoshop CameraRaw is very good at removing noise, and only noise from your RAW subs, so you end up with a cleaner image.

 

I used my Canon 5D MKII, stacking the RAW files in DSS.

Maybe I will try converting to tiffs, thanks.

9 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

The image is clearly in greyscale format here, so somewhere along the line the colour has been discarded. Did you stack in DSS? This has come up before but I don't use DSS myself so I'm not sure of the right procedure. You will find the colour though, fear not.

Olly

I stacked in DSS, it's def. not in greyscale because the background sky changes color when moving color sliders. But the stars just have zero color.

 

7 hours ago, wxsatuser said:

Thing is if we are dealing with RAW files it's up to you to bring out the colour.
It's exactly the same for daylight photography, RAW files are dark, lacking colour, contrast etc.
It really is upto the photographer to get the best out of RAW, don't expect DSS to do this for you.
DSS via dcraw decodes the RAW's but you will not get colour like you see on the back of camera display,
as that is a processed RAW, normally a jpg.

AFAIK DSS does not discard colour but there is a setting if you think the images are to grey.

 

7 hours ago, wxsatuser said:

This is what a linear dslr image looks like, viewed in Canon DPP and the second image is
the same file with a tone curve as you would see on the back of the camera.
As you see the linear has virtually no colour and is very dark with no contrast.
It's up to you and your software to get the best out of it.

BTW DSS Autosave tifs will look exactly like the linear image, very dark etc.

Linear

Tone curve applied

The image I posted is not an unprocessed image. The image I posted was what I got after many curve stretches and color adjustments but to no avail. That setting in DSS might be worth looking into though.

 

7 hours ago, alacant said:

Hi. If you can post -a link to- the stack, we can have a look. Cheers.

You are talking about the unprocessed TIFF. Right? If so yeah I can do that.

[Galen Gilmore]

This what I got as soon as I was done stacking, zero processing.

Stacked Double Cluster.TIF

[ollypenrice]

You can have a greyscale image in RGB mode. All that means is that the greyscale image has three identical 'colour' channels in R and G and B. Of course you can swing the 'colour' by changing the histogram in one or more of the channels but this is pure invention. (H alpha solar imagers do this all the time.) I think the image you first posted is in greyscale. Three channel greyscale, maybe, but I don't think it contains three real differentiated colour channels.

Olly

[alacant]

3 hours ago, Galen Gilmore said:

This what I got as soon as I was done stacking, zero processing

Hi. I can't get any colour from the tif. If no one else can, maybe we need to look at the sequence of events, software and processes from the images to the tif. HTH.

[ollypenrice]

27 minutes ago, alacant said:

Hi. I can't get any colour from the tif. If no one else can, maybe we need to look at the sequence of events, software and processes from the images to the tif. HTH.

Precisely so.

Olly

[Galen Gilmore]

51 minutes ago, alacant said:

Hi. I can't get any colour from the tif. If no one else can, maybe we need to look at the sequence of events, software and processes from the images to the tif. HTH.

Well I have nearly an hour of 27 second exposures in a LP area without a LP filter. 11 darks, 14 flats.

I uploaded the RAW CR2 files directly to my computer, then stacked. I used all of the default setting (I think?)

I made no pre-processing in DSS before importing into PS for processing. Should I be aligning the RGB channels in DSS?

Thats all the steps I can remember...

[alacant]

1 hour ago, Galen Gilmore said:

Should I be aligning the RGB channels in DSS?

Hi. No. Simply take the DSS default values. Change nothing.

OK, so next we'll need an example light, dark and flat frame to have a look at. If still nada, several light frames. We'll find it! HTH.

[Galen Gilmore]

15 minutes ago, alacant said:

Hi. No. Simply take the DSS default values. Change nothing.

OK, so next we'll need an example light, dark and flat frame to have a look at. If still nada, several light frames. We'll find it! HTH.

Hi are you sure? I processed two images of the andromeda Galaxy, one with RGB aligned, and one with default values. The one that was default had almost no star color, but the RGB aligned one had a lot more star colors. Just very confusing...

Sorry I can't give any photos because I'm not home right now with my computer.

[carastro]

I can't find any colour in the stacked file either.

When you stack coloured Raw files the stacking software needs to know what format to use .  I am wondering if you didn't make the right selection and inadvertently asked DSS to stack in Mono. 

Find the options at the bottom of DSS in RAW/Fits/DPP settings - then go to the Fits tab (Yes I don't understand that either), there is a drop down tab to select your camera, on my version of DSS (3.3.4) there is an option for the Canon 5D (Presume that is what you used from your signature), and then at the top there is a tick box for "Monochrome 16 bit fits files are RAW files created by a DSLR or colour CCD camera" (again the wording is confusing), but if you don't tick the monochrome thingy, the coloured Bayer box will disappear (that's the box with Red, Blue and two green squares in it).  These are the settings that I use and it produces a coloured image.  I have always been told to choose ADH as well.  

Also when you look at the images you have loaded into DSS there should be a little coloured Bayer matrix box next to the file.   If it is grey then it's been loaded as monochrome.

HTH and hope I am not telling you stuff you already know.

Carole 

 

 

[Galen Gilmore]

56 minutes ago, carastro said:

I can't find any colour in the stacked file either.

When you stack coloured Raw files the stacking software needs to know what format to use .  I am wondering if you didn't make the right selection and inadvertently asked DSS to stack in Mono. 

Find the options at the bottom of DSS in RAW/Fits/DPP settings - then go to the Fits tab (Yes I don't understand that either), there is a drop down tab to select your camera, on my version of DSS (3.3.4) there is an option for the Canon 5D (Presume that is what you used from your signature), and then at the top there is a tick box for "Monochrome 16 bit fits files are RAW files created by a DSLR or colour CCD camera" (again the wording is confusing), but if you don't tick the monochrome thingy, the coloured Bayer box will disappear (that's the box with Red, Blue and two green squares in it).  These are the settings that I use and it produces a coloured image.  I have always been told to choose ADH as well.  

Also when you look at the images you have loaded into DSS there should be a little coloured Bayer matrix box next to the file.   If it is grey then it's been loaded as monochrome.

HTH and hope I am not telling you stuff you already know.

Carole 

 

 

That is interesting, I will have to check next time I stack

[alacant]

1 hour ago, carastro said:

then go to the Fits tab

IIRC, the OP doesn't have fits files, he has RAW CR2s direct from the Canon (?), So the matrix is already known. I don't think anything should be selected on that tab. Leave it at the default settings? But do please tell me otherwise. I have nothing checked on that tab. Cheers.

[carastro]

Quote

the OP doesn't have fits files, he has RAW CR2s direct from the Canon (?), So the matrix is already known. I don't think anything should be selected on that tab.

I know he doesn't have fits files, and neither do I when I use my Canon, this is why I said the wording is confusing, but if you don't tick that box the coloured Icon disappears, so it was just another suggestion to try. 

Carole 

[alacant]

32 minutes ago, carastro said:

just another suggestion to try

Oh, absolutely. I'm sure different versions need different settings. On mine with 3.3.4 and Canon CR2, that setting is ignored. HTH.