Beginners telescope advice

[Timandstef]

Hello. 

This will get asked alp the time I know, but my daughter has a very cheap child's scope which is very unstable and small.

She is getting very interested in astronomy, so I'm looking to get her a decent used telescope for Christmas. I don't have a massive budget so I'm going to get a used one so I can get a better one for the money. 

However, its a massive mine field trying to pick a good beginners scope. We'd want to be able to see more than just the moon and Jupiter's moons. Everytime I read a good guide and decide on a type of scope and appature I read something that contradicts it, and reviews seem biased towards whatever model they ate trying to sell. 

Any advice from actual users would be greatly appreciated. I'm after an easy to use scope that will give good image of what we are viewing. 

I thought a computerised one would be good for her but that obviously increases the price or reduces the size of scope you get for your money. 

 

Many thanks.

Tim

 

Thank you for your responses so far, I'll get back to you shortly. 

More information:

My daughter is 8 years old, I'm very keen to do the hobby with her, so if there are things she is too young for I can help, but I wanted a simpler to use one so that she can learn to use it to find objects herself and get the joy of that, rather than me cueing it up for her all the time. That said if I help for now until she grows into it that's fine. 

The scope she has is a 50mm reflector (found in a charity shop and all we could afford at the time ) and it was enough to get her started but though i thought something was better than nothing it frustrates her more than anything. 

 

We are in Mansfield Notts UK. 

 

[tooth_dr]

Hi Tim. Sounds like you have done excellent research and are aware of the compromises. A good mount will be essential, more so than the telescope. I’m not really a visual observer but there will be plenty of sound advice on here. 

[brantuk]

Hi Tim and welcome to SGL

What sort of age is your daughter? And what scope does she already have? (model/make). I was going to suggest a Skywatcher 130p on a motorised tracking alt/az mount, but depending on your budget and my first two questions, I may be able to suggest something more appropriate. This is the sort of thing that sprung to mind initially:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130p-supatrak-auto.html

(You can find them considerably cheaper on the used market)

 

[ronin]

First off used is a good idea but if I said get an ABC scope then there is no guarantee that one will become available for sale.

For ease I would suggest a refractor, the sort of reasonable one is the Skywatcher Evostar 90. Will say that the same scope is also apparently sold as Meade and Bresser and a few others.

Check the retailers sites out and also check out the Bresser web site, if you can track down their "clearance" pages they could have a good deal.

The other which I have is the Bresser 102/600. At f/6 it will show some CA, shouldn't really be a problem. ES do a similar sounding one that is 102/650. That is a seperated doublet, bit slower and more money. The Bresser ones comes with an assortment of bits that you will need to attach. The scope is delived in a sort of "imaging setup" to use for visual you need to add in one of the spacer rings - they supply 2 for some reason. So quite possible to sit there wondering which bits if any need to be added in.

Big aspect is the budget and what it is that you want or envisage. As said used is fine if a used one appears - what if one doesn't?

Add a location, as if US there is a reasonable ES option but it is not sold in UK/EU, bit of a shame as it reads like a good starter scope.

[Peter Drew]

Welcome to SGL Tim. Yes, more information will help us considerably with any advice. Particularly regarding the age of your daughter and how much you are prepared to help her with using a telescope. 

[JOC]

What's the budget and how old is your daughter - I doubt you'd go wrong with the 200P Dobsonian currently in the SGL classifieds for £160

[Buzzard75]

For beginners, 8" reflectors, like the Skywatcher 200p mentioned above and similar, tend to be the sweet spot. They are relatively inexpensive, give excellent views, are very versatile in the type of objects you can view, yet aren't so small that you feel like you can't see enough that you get bored and frustrated. You can also customize them with different mounts like a Dobsonian, an equatorial, or an alt/az, and can even be motorized all based on your budget. I would also advise that you budget for a nice eyepiece or two as they can often make the difference between stunning views and ho-hum ones.

[alanjgreen]

Hi Tim,

If I was buying a scope to share with a small child then that scope would have to have TRACKING. Expecting a child to manhandle a scope to keep an object in the eyepiece field of view (FOV) is a step too far in my opinion. You will have tokeep stepping in to reposition the scope so she can once again see the object as it will keep drifting out of view (due to the earths rotation).

With tracking, you (or the computer) gets the object in the eyepiece field of view (FOV) then you just stand back and leave her to it. The scope will track the object (this means the scope will be moving ever so slowly counteracting the earths rotation) and it will REMAIN visible in the eyepiece for as long as you like!

Later, when she understands how to use the keypad then all you need do is complete the INITIAL ALIGNMENT then you can step back and leave her to choose the objects etc. The scope will take care of finding them.

The way to keep a child interested is by seeing a range of the objects that are up there in the sky. Standing there getting cold while you hunt down something for her to look at will soon wear a bit thin.

You should also consider if you intend to hold her at the eyepiece or get a box or similar for her to stand on.  These smaller reflector scopes will be quite low to the ground and she can stand on a box to reach the eyepiece. With a big tall dob then you will end up standing there holding her to the eyepiece which is not very comfortable.

So, yes 200p DOBs are great value but only if you are a full size adult - I would not expect a child to be able to chuck it around or even REACH THE EYEPIECE.

Here is what I would buy in your situation

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/sky-watcher-star-discovery-150p.html

This scope will also need a power source, do not attempt to run them on batteries - they dont last long & they dont provide a steady power source (especially in cold weather) leading to scopes doing strange things as the power drops below the minimum required.

Something like this is needed

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/skywatcher-powertank-7ah.html

 

HTH,

Alan

 

p.s. if thats well over budget and you have a table in your garden THEN a great scope to use with kids are the HERITAGE table top range such as

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/skywatcher-heritage-100p-tabletop-dobsonian.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/heritage/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html

these however do not have any electronics and alas that means no tracking

 

 

[Cosmic Geoff]

I have no first-hand experience of providing telescopes for children, but would make the following comments.

I  found that a casual visitor was impressed by views of the Moon's craters or the M42 Orion nebula as seen through a 127mm telescope.  So you probably don't need anything bigger.

GoTo is great, but ... I know that kids are computer-savvy these days, but setting up a GoTo and aligning it seems to baffle some adults, so I have no idea how a 8 year old would manage.  If you intend your daughter to manage the telescope herself, I suggest getting a long focal length refractor, something like a 80/900 on an alt-azimuth mount (which should be cheap second-hand) and seeing how she gets on with that.

As you are discovering, the possible choices are massive. Other than doing what I suggest, do not proceed without some practical consumer research. Like take her to an astronomy club night and see which telescope she wants to take home. 

[JOC]

17 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

but setting up a GoTo and aligning it seems to baffle some adults

I think I resemble that comment

[Timandstef]

Many, many thanks for all your help. 

Your advice is greatly appreciated and has been very helpful. Based on your recommendations I have decided to wait until I can afford to buy a better model than I can currently afford.  

I have managed to get my hands on what I think is a tal 1 Russian amateur scope on equatorial mount, to try off a friend who had it in the garage that belonged to her late father. It has a 25mm lens and one that just says x3 on the side. I assume this is a Barlow? 

The person I got it off knows nothing abut it.

I looked into buying a starter lens kit so we could get it going for my daughter, but had no idea where to Start.

Any input, on top of your more than generous responses would be appreciated. 

When I can afford I'm looking into your recommendations, the one I've borrowed probably won't be suitable.

Many thanks. 

[Ricochet]

  Yes, the "3x" will be a Barlow. You put the Barlow in the focuser and then the eyepiece in the Barlow to use it. TAL telescopes are pretty well regarded and it should give good results with the eyepiece and Barlow supplied. You may or may not be able to use modern eyepieces with it without modification depending on which telescope you have. Have a look at the focuser. If it has a thumb screw at the end to secure the eyepiece then it should take modern 1.25" eyepieces but if the focuser simply holds the eyepiece by friction then I think you may find that there is not enough infocus to use anything but the original eyepieces. 

[alanjgreen]

2 hours ago, Timandstef said:

 

I looked into buying a starter lens kit so we could get it going for my daughter, but had no idea where to Start.

Any input, on top of your more than generous responses would be appreciated. 

When I can afford I'm looking into your recommendations, the one I've borrowed probably won't be suitable.

Many thanks. 

Tim,

Dont bother buying eyepieces starter kits, they are no good. You will end up using 20% of what is in the kit and even these will soon be replaced by something better.

The eyepieces relevant to each scope are not the same ones! Depending on the "focal length" and "aperture" of the scope, we can help determine which eyepieces are needed. 

So, buy the scope first THEN use the free eyepieces for 2-3 months with the scope and build a feeling for what you want to improve. Then ask for advice on this website, provide a budget amount and people will advise the next step.

BUT BUY NO EYEPIECES UNTIL YOU AT LEAST HAVE YOUR TARGET SCOPE AND HAVE GAINED SOME EXPERIENCE USING IT.

there is no rush to spend your cash, just simple step by step, astronomy is a journey

Alan

[RichM63]

I'd certainly stick with the TAL 1 for quite a while and see if over the next few years your daughter or you get bitten by the bug.

Here is a very good and detailed review/report on the TAL 1.

Rich

[westmarch]

Hi Tim,

The best advice I can give is, whatever telescope you end up with, get a red dot finder-scope and attach it to the scope.  It literally puts a bullseye or a red dot in the sky when looked through. Providing you adjust it first to align with a static target, it makes it so much easier for a child to point a telescope at easy to find objects.

Pictures are often better than words so this is short visual representation:

 Good Luck

John

[JOC]

The trick I find with red dot finders is to sort of keep both eyes open, you have to sort of get your eye aligned with the screen the red dot is on, but you can also see the star behind the screen since the background is clear and not magnified.  The idea is that you align the finder (by means of manual screw adjustment of its position) with an object central in the eye piece view (this is easier to learn in the daytime) then, by aligning your eye so you can superimpose the red projection on the screen and line it up with the object behind it, you are effectively lining up the telescope with this view. 

Mine doesn't have all those circles (which are apparently useful for star-hopping (they represent a given distance between stars that some books and charts refer to), I just have a single red dot and I think it's easier to see the object behind with this, but each person gets on with their version I think. 

I actually have two finders on a dual bracket - one is my red dot which puts me more or less onto an object, and then I have a magnified Right angle correct image optical finder that is the one that is spot on with my eyepiece.  I know that if I can see something in the red dot finder view that it will be in the optical finder and if I then adjust the view so the object is spot in the centre of the optical finder that it will be spot on in the eye piece.  With this system I can find any object I can see with the naked eye in about 30 seconds.

 

[ronin]

This could be of use, cannot see it given previously:

http://www.astronomyclubs.co.uk/

It is always a good idea if possible to visit a club and see the equipment that people use and generally see it in the flesh.

This is Mansfield and Sutton AS: http://sherwood-observatory.org.uk/

They adverfrtise an Open Evening for public on Oct 28, cost is £5 however.