Do you ever end up wishing you hadn't made the effort?

[JOC]

How many astronomers get to the end of a session and wish they hadn't made the effort. 

Tonight for the first time in yonks it looked clear.  I set-up this afternoon and tried first with the solar filter - nothing, but a flat featureless orange disc.

As it looked set in for clear night I left the kit out and decided to go for this purposefully.  I charged the power box, decided life would be easier if I just took out a box of what I realistically might use, so filled an ali case with the 32mm Celestron Omni plossl, the 28mm skywatcher plossl (just so I could drop a filter on one of them), the 15mm Meade and the 2x Barlow, I put the O-III and UHC into a little tub so I wouldn't lose them, set up my table and viewing bar-stools and made a list of potential targets Uranus, Neptune, the double double, alberio, M57, M27, NGC6543 and NGC7662 - most of which have been recommended on SGL to folks recently - I even wrote down descriptions of the shapes and colours I should be looking for and what filters had been recommended.

So there I am, about as organised as I have been yet. 

Outside, From about 8pm until about 9.30pm and I found precisely nothing that I could def. identify.  Nothing....Nada.....zilch.......zero.......NOTHING!

About the only thing I didn't get round to trying was the double double, I even added in M31 (which I have previously found), absolutely nothing!

I also kicked the lead out of the power box twice.

I don't think the Goto was failing (bar the power cable pulling out twice).  I'd set it on North with a compass (I know at my location compass North is about as near as dammit correct), the one thing I am pretty sure about were my 2 callibration stars - Altair and then Vega - these were fairly clear to me and I checked with SkyMap.  About the only thing I may have found was Neptune - what I was on didn't look like a pin-point star, but it wasn't clear either and looked a bit of a muddy colour, but I wouldn't swear blind it was a disk like planet.

Please bring back my April/May sky - at least when I hit Jupiter and Saturn and a bit earlier in the year Venus I know I'm on them.  Or the December/Jan sky with Orion and Castor and Pollux reigning supreme - things that I can positively identify and use as reference points to find things.  Come back full-Moon all is forgiving - at least its satisfying to finally find something and look at it.  I looked and looked and looked for M57 - UHC filter on and off.   I even had a bash at the veil with the 32mm and O-III - absolutely nothing.  I finally got the curtains drawn in the house, and the lights off the in the porch and kitchens, the security light switch off and everyone settled in their lounges and stopped switching stuff on and off and my eyes were dark adjusted (well about as dark as it gets around me) - Nothing, zilch.......did I mention I found nothing!

I am not impressed.  Two whole hours I'll never get back and nothing to show for it.  Does everyone have nights like that?

 

[scarp15]

Yes certainly, there are sometimes occasions in which it can become or feel hopeless, frustrating leaving you feeling a bit dejected. There are many situations as you illustrate that can stack up against what might otherwise be straight forward, becoming anything but. Its best just to accept the inevitable take stock and cast your thoughts towards planning for another occasion and try to seek the positive. Whether you are trying to observe from home or take the effort to go to a dark site, things can and do not always turn out how you might hope, there is a flip side to the coin though. Equally this week, some grim weather is heading towards Ireland and the UK and maybe also later in the week, getting outside at all at times seems to be a success, it really can become a game of cat and mouse.

[John]

I do have nights like that and as it happens last night and this were along very similar lines to the one that you describe above.

I don't tend to feel that I've wasted the time though because there have been other occasions where I've started off without much hope or enthusiasm and the session has turned out much better than expected. It's that old "swings and roundabouts" thing.

Tonight I set up my big refractor, got the mount polar aligned and tracking, got the scope cool and observed a single double star before clouds rolled over. Took the rig to bits popped the frac in the greenhouse to keep cooled and retired inside. A hour later stars were showing so I set the rig up again, started hunting for a target only to find that more high, thin cloud had quietly crept across the sky. So I took things apart again and bought them inside - I know when I'm not wanted

I've consoled myself by thinking that this is good rig assembly and disassembly practice so that I'll have a nice slick process next time it's clear

 

[Tim]

Oh yes, we certainly do. Sometimes NOTHING seems to go right. These days I am calmer about it and just lock up and go inside or grab some binos, but used to get more and more stressy which just made it worse!

[Fypunky]

I  had many of those times in my early days of observation, I tried to see targets I didn't realize the LP would make it impossible. As time went on things improved and those sessions became less n less.

Since getting a goto and planning (more understanding LP and what I can see) I normally have decent sessions now.

[furrysocks2]

1 minute ago, Tim said:

... grab some binos ...

Good call, easy to forget.

[iPeace]

Nah. It's all good. Even when it's not great. Like pizza.

[JOC]

You are all very kind, thank you.  At least I am not alone.  I am coming to the conclusion that, despite living in the countryside, my location is possibly not as dark as I would like to think it should be.  That's about the only reason I can think of for failing, every time, to see the 'fuzzies'.  I also tried andromeda, couldn't see that either.  Surely everything I tried for was a possible hit with the kit I took out tonight?  Is it possible that there was some cloud about.  The stars seemed there, but I am sure I have seen them brighter.

[Stu]

28 minutes ago, JOC said:

Is it possible that there was some cloud about.  The stars seemed there, but I am sure I have seen them brighter.

I suspect you were suffering from poor transparency, probably some high hazy cloud which is not really visible but dramatically affects the viewing of DSOs. I have had consecutive nights at a dark site whilst on holiday when the sky brightness was essentially the same, but one night I could see the NAN at all, the next it was beautifully clear. The sky didn't see much different but there must have been high haze up there.

Keep at it, it will come together sooner or later.

[Stu]

One more thing, M57 is usually pretty good at punching through LP. It is quite possible it just was not visible, but careful positioning of Sheliak to one side of the field of view with your 32mm should guarantee the M57 is in view.

[Cosmic Geoff]

Sometimes things just don't go right. Actually it sounds like your GoTo was off. I have the same aperture (8") and observe from a town.  The first thing I generally do after running my GoTo set-up is to command it to find a no-brainer object from the handset, something un-mistakeable, so if I can then see it in the LP eyepiece, I know the thing has worked. Lately I've used M57 or M27 as the test object.

[Galen Gilmore]

As many others said before me, we all have those nights... 

Friday night I went out to image, came back inside ready to stack my images then realizing that my images may be too overexposed. Another overwhelming frustration is going to a dark sky and forgetting an essential bit of kit, like your eyepieces...

Just remember that this will be one of many more observing sessions you will have, and that Galaxy you were hunting will probobly be in your eyepiece next clear dark night.

[Astro Imp]

Reading your original report I was surprised to see your two alignment stars were Altair and Vega. When I've chosen Altair as my first star the hand set gives options on the other side of the sky, typically stars making up the Plough. If you did indeed use Vega as your second star I wouldn't expect your GOTO to be very accurate.

FYI when I have accepted the second star I use the GOTO to something I can readily identify, M13 at present, to check everything is OK.

Don't give up, it will all suddenly work and you'll wonder what the problems were.

[ronin]

Not really, if I don't get anything then to an extent "So what?" I will have had some time to myself and very likely lowered any blood pressure I have. I do have the advantage of a small goto scope that grumbles, tends to make the night amusing.

I take a couple of torches and binoculars are always in the car. It is fun seeing a pair of eyes in the distance looking at you. Think they are deer but always have the idea they may attached to the last sabre tooth tiger on the planet.

One thing is have a number of things listed to see, one should turn up, moon is a good fall back, just find a convenient constellation and check it out. You can find out afterwards what bits of it were. Perseus and Cassiopeia are good for that.

[Paul M]

Success is best measured against failure! So when it does happen for you it'll be a real treat.

I spent untold hours looking for M33 over decades. 6in and 10in reflectors and binoculars under sky dark enough to see M31 naked eye. I really couldn't understand it. Then one day quite recently I bagged it with bins from my dark sky site in Cumbria. Now I can't miss it! "How did I ever miss that" I now wonder every time I re-visit it.

 

[westmarch]

If you want to see an orange featureless disc (and sky!) try looking out of your window now. 

John

[Trikeflyer]

1 hour ago, Paul M said:

Success is best measured against failure! So when it does happen for you it'll be a real treat.

I spent untold hours looking for M33 over decades. 6in and 10in reflectors and binoculars under sky dark enough to see M31 naked eye. I really couldn't understand it. Then one day quite recently I bagged it with bins from my dark sky site in Cumbria. Now I can't miss it! "How did I ever miss that" I now wonder every time I re-visit it.

 

 

1 hour ago, Paul M said:

Success is best measured against failure! So when it does happen for you it'll be a real treat.

I spent untold hours looking for M33 over decades. 6in and 10in reflectors and binoculars under sky dark enough to see M31 naked eye. I really couldn't understand it. Then one day quite recently I bagged it with bins from my dark sky site in Cumbria. Now I can't miss it! "How did I ever miss that" I now wonder every time I re-visit it.

 

I was at SGL star party over the weekend and last night we had a clear hour or so.  I also thought I'd look for M33 after all I thought the skies are dark and M31 M32 and M110 were easy targets.  Spent a good 30 mins looking for M33 and failed miserably.  I was clearly in the right area but could I find it, hell no.  Glad you found it after years of trying and your story has inspired me to keep looking.... I'm off to the Kielder area at the weekend for a week. Not for the star party as such but hiring a cottage and hopefully will get clear skies enough to give it another go.....

[Beulah]

Yes, I concur with all this. I'm hoping to plan for every contingency. For the problem with the streetlights, I'll be heading off for darker skies (500 yards up road ) or further afield and will bring bins just in case. Lemons, lemonade, yada yada...

There are nights when the mount sticks and squeaks like you are torturing something and in frustration, you accidentally headbutt the eyepiece, not only to have a bruised forehead but that hard won search for Stephan's Quintet is 25 degrees out of the eyepiece and impossible to find again.

Or the one where you reach for your sky atlas, only to rest your fingers on three slugs helping themselves to the paper...

Or even when you sigh in frustration, managing to dew up BOTH the finder and the eyepiece....

Remind me why we do this again?

 

[Richard Hather]

It can be a little frustrating when you don’t find what you know is at least in the area your looking.

My bane is the Veil I’ve tried 3 times in 3 separate sessions to observe this wonder and each time unsuccessfully but I will see it with perseverance I know this be it a dark site or perfect conditions from my home I will observe it.

Dont loose heart dust yourself off and plan for your next session when you do hunt down a dso as you know it makes all the searching and research worthwhile.

Clear skies ???✨?

 

[JOC]

6 hours ago, Astro Imp said:

Reading your original report I was surprised to see your two alignment stars were Altair and Vega. When I've chosen Altair as my first star the hand set gives options on the other side of the sky, typically stars making up the Plough. If you did indeed use Vega as your second star I wouldn't expect your GOTO to be very accurate.

FYI when I have accepted the second star I use the GOTO to something I can readily identify, M13 at present, to check everything is OK.

I think, as has been noted a couple of times, that I need to check that the Goto can def. go back to a known object as the first thing to do following calibration - even if its only going back to the first calibration star. 

Regarding Altair and Vega - yes, I knew they were fairly close, but the plough was very low in the sky and where I had the telescope I couldn't really see it.  Polaris seemed non-existent in the sky (I never think that its overly bright even at the best of times).  If I'm being honest I'm such a novice that I was running out of stars that I could really identify , and Altair and Vega both seemed sufficiently prominent that I could confirm them with skymap on the mobile phone and finally arrive at two stars that I could def. identify.  That's the main difficultly with the goto I have to be able to identify something I can find.  Let's face it I think I'm somewhat of a failure as an astronomer!

[Chefgage]

2 hours ago, Beulah said:

Or the one where you reach for your sky atlas, only to rest your fingers on three slugs helping themselves to the paper...

Sorry but that made me laugh I can just imagine doing that myself and freaking out.

To the OP I too have had sessions like that lately. Nothing seems to go right, all the plans i had for the session seem to go out the window!

But then on another session i might find more objects than i set out to find. So i would advise just stick with it, I reckon all the disapointed sessions are soon forgoten when you have a great viewing session

[des anderson]

Look on the bright side, we`ve all had our ups & downs doing our thing in this astronomy thing . Winter stars are coming and with constellations like Orion,Taurus,Gemini and Auriga you`ll have no trouble finding some easy stars to do your alignment or to save yourself a lot hassle get a Starsence. One of the best things I`ve got. Des

[JOC]

1 hour ago, des anderson said:

Orion,Taurus,Gemini and Auriga

Well Orion (and M42 and the trapezium is normally a cert. (Let's face it I'm a dreadful astronomer, but I'm not brain dead LOL), Gemini I'm normally OK with (I ought to be it's my zodiac star sign and it contains the double star (my first double) against which measure the others - Castor, I can split it neatly with about 10mm and so I use it to measure others - are they closer and I can't split them - like each double pair in the Lyra double double - are they less bright, are they different brightnesses - that sort of thing.).  What else can I sort out...err....Well the plough of course when it's not hiding behind the trees and I can normally spot Polaris off the plough when its the sort of conditions for it to be a big brighter - for all its reputation I have found that its tricky little thing to get absolutely right as in the EP its not alone up there, the little dipper (baby plough?) I can normally find that one, Cassiopeia (that's the big W that's in the North East at the moment when it gets dark about 2030 in the UK).  Lyra I did have worked out, but it doesn't help that I get it all worked out one night and then don't see them all again for months!

Taurus and Auriga - now those I wouldn't know, perhaps I'll have to put in some time and get those sorted if they are also good markers. 

NB.  You can get one of those GPS whatsits for my telescope too, but there is no way I can justify the expense - I almost broke the bank just getting the goto!

[Littleguy80]

Earlier in the year it was like clockwork for me. I’d have a bad session struggling to find things and then follow that with a good session where everything fell into place and repeat. I came to the conclusion that the lessons learned in the bad session was setting me up for success in the next session. I also came up with a strategy of always starting and finishing with something easy that I knew I could find. Once you’ve got one target under your belt there’s less pressure on the next and always good to finish a session with an old favourite. 

The challenge in this hobby is part of it’s appeal, for me at least. It’s the nights of frustration that make the nights when everything goes to plan that little bit more special  I’m sure your next session will be awesome!

[Mognet]

I've had plenty of rubbish nights. Not just with failing to find things from lack of planning, but with things like dew, changeable conditions, and neighbours forgetting to turn their lights off. Worst one was when one of them was decorating late at night and kept making the lightbulbs swing in the room!

 

2 hours ago, JOC said:

Taurus and Auriga - now those I wouldn't know, perhaps I'll have to put in some time and get those sorted if they are also good markers.

Auriga is rising in the north east at the moment, clearing the horizon around 8pm, and directly above Gemini at midnight. It looks like a distorted pentagon, and is easy enough to find. There is a very bright star at the top of it too, which is Capella. You might find that using Capella combined with Vega is better for alignment than Altair.