Astro Physics refractors

[25585]

Back in the late 80s when I bought my Tele Vue Genesis, I passed up an Astro Physics Starfire 150mm f5.6 refractor as it cost £500 more than the former with out tripod & panoramic mount + diagonal that the TV has. My choice, though not regretted, has always bothered me (Vixen fluorides were too flimsy so ruled out).

I have looked for a while on the web for an Ast Phs scope, but there are no longer any UK sellers, & AP is now serving a waiting list stretching back years!

But I'm interested in any experience people have had using an AP made scope of any vintage, and how they compare with their competition. 

[Merlin66]

Can't comment on the AP scopes, but I can say I also acquired a Genesis (s/n 1007) back in the 80's ..... and still love it.

I've measured up my box - when I go, it goes with me!!!!

[GavStar]

I bought a new AP 130 GTX a few months back. Amazingly I chanced upon an Italian dealer who had one in stock and so I had no wait. Fantastic scope. My favourite- so good that I'm selling my tec140, I have a slight preference for the views through the AP.

some links to some previous threads

 

[John]

I've only got one Astro Physics product, their 2" MaxBright diagonal. It's beautifully made and performs superbly. I have it in my TMB / LZOS 130mm F/9.25 triplet refractor. Having been in the hobby for a long time now Astro Physics is one of those legendary names for me and I'd love to own one of their scopes someday

 

[25585]

9 hours ago, Merlin66 said:

Can't comment on the AP scopes, but I can say I also acquired a Genesis (s/n 1007) back in the 80's ..... and still love it.

I've measured up my box - when I go, it goes with me!!!!

Mine the same! Wish the case handle was stronger but there are ways round that. As a short focus refractor I have been toying with the idea of a binoviewer for it.

[25585]

1 hour ago, John said:

I've only got one Astro Physics product, their 2" MaxBright diagonal. It's beautifully made and performs superbly. I have it in my TMB / LZOS 130mm F/9.25 triplet refractor. Having been in the hobby for a long time now Astro Physics is one of those legendary names for me and I'd love to own one of their scopes someday

 

The advert was from a classified in Astronomy Now magazine back then!  Did you import your diagonal John? Anacortes is the first retailer that Google shows, selling AP accessories only.

[John]

3 hours ago, 25585 said:

The advert was from a classified in Astronomy Now magazine back then!  Did you import your diagonal John? Anacortes is the first retailer that Google shows, selling AP accessories only.

I bought it pre-owned from the UK Astro Buy & Sell website. APM Telescopes in Germany have a pre-owned one for sale (rather high price though):

http://www.apm-telescopes.de/en/secondhand1/astro-physics-usa-2-maxbright-telescope-star-diagonal-pmdmax-99-di-eletric-coating.html

I don't know of any dealer who carries Astro Physics stuff in the UK.

 

[HD-AP]

Hi

 

I have an astrophysics 180 EDT F9 refractor Delivered in june 1994 with an astrophysics 1200 Qmd equatorial mount see the company seven page link it gives you an idea of the potential and performance of this instrument .

          http://www.company7.com/astrophy/refractors/180sf.html

At the time it was the best triplet apochromatic refractor fast forward 23 years ! obviously it has competition .I would still put it up against the best modern eqivalent mr r christian can figure an objective to near perfection ! like no other, it's only a seven inch but it's outperformed many a larger scope on many nights ,though my view is apeture wins ,i think that sometimes you get a more asthetically more pleasing view on most observing nights with the astrophysics ,and i have some reflectors with highly accurate optics and large apeture,seeing often defeats the bigger apeture asthetically larger can offer more detail and a brighter image .Not logical largely subjective but the view is that the astrophysics often outperforms my larger scopes a lot of the time to my eyes at least .It bears high magnification well  and the views in good seeing are razor sharp ,the moons terminator is a good and often breath taking experience as are planetary views.

They are however not magic telescopes ,even roland christian tells prospective customers ,don't wait for me it's likely that i won't be able to make a telescope for you ever ,but there are a few manufacturers out there that make telescopes that are as good  ? they don't have the qudos or mistique of an astrophysics or the secondhand resale value !! for the record i would not pay secondhand what my telescope is allegedly worth these days !! 

I think it's a great telescope hence why i still have it  after 23 years still looks and performs like new ,i look after it ! 

tec takahashi  apm /losz  and even some chinese manufacturers make some good apochromatic triplet refractors .  would i trade mine for one er no !! 

 

[Stu]

Oooh, nice! I think we deserve a picture or two though  

[triton1]

There's a Astro physics 180mm edt f9 for sale on the market place at sky and telescope site a mere $20,990 they sure ain't cheap.

[25585]

Its if you drop them that must be worrying. One other reason for buying my Genesis was that fear!

[HD-AP]

21 hours ago, Stu said:

Oooh, nice! I think we deserve a picture or two though  

Hi stu i'll post up some pics eventually weather work etc !

[HD-AP]

18 hours ago, triton1 said:

There's a Astro physics 180mm edt f9 for sale on the market place at sky and telescope site a mere $20,990 they sure ain't cheap.

mine cost £ 3850 gbp  ota mount £ 2650 gbp in 1994

[F15Rules]

2 hours ago, HD-AP said:

mine cost £ 3850 gbp  ota mount £ 2650 gbp in 1994

That sounds very reasonable for such a large apo triplet at that time.. my Tak FS128 scope Fluorite APO doublet with 52mm less aperture cost about the same in 1999..

Dave

[mikeDnight]

I've had opportunity to look through two AP Starfires but they were both earlier models. The 4" I used was faulty and showed a very poor image of Jupiter. It's focuser was also rough, which made me feel it had suffered some serious impact at some stage in its life. The seconds was a 7" Starfire which I briefly used alongside my FS128. The 7" was certainly more colourful than the 5" Tak, but it was an early version and glass types have improved over the years. I also got to look at a 5" Starfire in an observatory in Kidderminster some years ago, the owner of which claimed it would knock the Tak into next week, but he was unwilling to let me look through it at night. It looked pretty though!  As Starfires have evolved over the years its probably true to say that the more up to date the model, the better its over all performance will be.

[John]

I had the opportunity to purchase one of the AP Star ED 120's a few years ago. The costs would have been 3x what I'd spent on my Skywatcher ED120 so I invited opinions on another forum as to what differences (apart from the famous name) I might notice between the Star ED 120 and my Skywatcher ED120. The response (including some PM's) was overwhelmingly that there would be little or no difference optically and it was possible (depending on the vintage of the AP) that the Skywatcher objective would show less CA. The lure of owning an AP product was still strong but, on that occasion, I let my head rule my heart and passed on the Star ED 120.

The Star ED is an older AP model and a doublet rather than the triplets that they are more associated with. I'd still like to own one of the triplets oneday

[Peter Drew]

I had an AP Stowaway on loan for a day, it probably had the best optics I've yet used, it ran out of light long before any hint of false colour or image breakdown.

Early AP refractors were the best in their day, current ones are one of the best, seeing conditions will mostly level the playing field for comparisons.  I also used the "duff" one that Mike mentioned, I tried swapping the lenses round but no improvement was gained, I suspect that the spacings had for some reason been altered. 

[HD-AP]

so

To go with the astrophysics 180 EDT 

Eyepieces  televue  radian 3.5mm  nagler 4.8mm type 1  7mm nagler type 1 9mm nagler type 1  11mm nagler type 1  13mm nagler type 1  15 mm panoptic  20 mm nagler type 2  22 mm panoptic  35 mm panoptic  

also circle t japan orthoscoptics 4 mm 5mm 7 mm 9 mm 12.5 mm  18 mm  25 mm  40 mm

televue nj japan diagonal  astrophysics did not supply one at this time 

some of these are doubled up to go with a denkmier 2 binoviewer 

i will post up some pics in due course

 

[HD-AP]

12 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

I've had opportunity to look through two AP Starfires but they were both earlier models. The 4" I used was faulty and showed a very poor image of Jupiter. It's focuser was also rough, which made me feel it had suffered some serious impact at some stage in its life. The seconds was a 7" Starfire which I briefly used alongside my FS128. The 7" was certainly more colourful than the 5" Tak, but it was an early version and glass types have improved over the years. I also got to look at a 5" Starfire in an observatory in Kidderminster some years ago, the owner of which claimed it would knock the Tak into next week, but he was unwilling to let me look through it at night. It looked pretty though!  As Starfires have evolved over the years its probably true to say that the more up to date the model, the better its over all performance will be.

the proof of system performance is clear when you talk to observers who have had the opportunity of using a refractor of even moderatley good figure this has been discussed with many visual observers including professional astronomers The views of the late david sinden former grubb parsons cheif optician are appropriate .David said that the cleanest most detailed and highest contrast images he had ever seen were through two optical systems an astrophysics 7 inch starfire refractor and a macksutov of his own design with a 14% obstruction david had of course made and used some of the worlds largest telescopes . supplied nasa and professional  observatories high accuracy optics for decades.

[AstroSylv1]

I had a Traveler, loved the views, but preferred a lightweight Tak... now if you feel rich, there are now for sale in France a 155 (south) at 10.000€ and a 130 GT (Lyon) at 5900€.

[Stu]

Always fancied a Traveller, mainly for the potential of such widefield views combined with still cracking planetary views. Pretty unobtainable these days though.

Gavstar's AP130EDF GT is lovely, can't fault it and I would certainly be happy to own one. F9 scopes are potentially better planetary/high power scopes, but there is something about faster fracs for widefield that I love.

[mikeDnight]

On 30/09/2017 at 00:55, HD-AP said:

the proof of system performance is clear when you talk to observers who have had the opportunity of using a refractor of even moderatley good figure this has been discussed with many visual observers including professional astronomers The views of the late david sinden former grubb parsons cheif optician are appropriate .David said that the cleanest most detailed and highest contrast images he had ever seen were through two optical systems an astrophysics 7 inch starfire refractor and a macksutov of his own design with a 14% obstruction david had of course made and used some of the worlds largest telescopes . supplied nasa and professional  observatories high accuracy optics for decades.

Personally I wouldn't entertain a refractor if it had only a moderately good figure, and I'm not sure how talking to observers, especially professional astronomers proves anything about a telescopes performance. David was indeed a wonderful and talented optical engineer, I met him a number of times. He admitted he'd rather look at a telescope than through one, and as his retirement present to himself he wanted to build a 6" brass equatorial refractor, so he could polish the brass work and admire its beauty, but he didn't want to look through it. He was a genuinely lovely man and its sad he's no longer with us. 

There are so many different brands of apo on the market today but they are not all on an equal footing. There's a lot of debate about glass types and lens design as well as the level of CA, along with the question about Doublet vs Triplet vs Quadruplet. Each design has its own special place and its own following, but there's one thing that is absolutely paramount with every scope - its quality of figure. It's the figure on the optics that determines how scopes will perform with regard to image quality, and thats why AP along with a small handful of other refractor brands are legendary performers.

[gorann]

 

On 26/09/2017 at 00:43, 25585 said:

Back in the late 80s when I bought my Tele Vue Genesis, I passed up an Astro Physics Starfire 150mm f5.6 refractor as it cost £500 more than the former with out tripod & panoramic mount + diagonal that the TV has. My choice, though not regretted, has always bothered me (Vixen fluorides were too flimsy so ruled out).

I have looked for a while on the web for an Ast Phs scope, but there are no longer any UK sellers, & AP is now serving a waiting list stretching back years!

But I'm interested in any experience people have had using an AP made scope of any vintage, and how they compare with their competition. 

Interesting thread. I assume you have seen this ad for a Starfire 152 f/9 for sale in the UK:

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=139374

Quite tempting but I bought an Esprit 150 a few months ago (actually for exactly the same price)

[Merlin66]

I have a very good Genesis....

just stick with it!!