What size telescope have you seen The Horsehead Nebula with?

[Guest]

I have recently bought an Orion Optics 8 inch f4.5 with 1/10th wave. It was vey good at home in light polluted Hertfordshire. But have taken it to the dark skies of Dorset. It has been magical. I have seen so many deep sky objects with this Newtonian. A few nights ago I was touring the Orion constellation. Looking towards the Flame nebula,I was aware of nebulosity instead of black sky. I couls just make out the brighter area where The Horsehead nebula would be. But could not see it. The 8 inch is going to serve me well for a few years. But and with a fearful "But" I can feel apature fever developing.

The questiin to you seasoned deep sky observers is what size Newtonian would reveal objects like the Horsehead.

I shyed away from large Newtonians due to their size and manageability. Not being able to move them far. But I would leave a large scope in Dorset stored in a garage only several yards from the observing area. So I am interested to hear.

[Stu]

I've heard of it seen in 8" under dark skies, but more frequently with 16" Plus. What sized scope are you thinking of?

[John]

I've yet to see it with my 12" or anything else. I've tried hard and will try again this Autumn / Winter with an Astronomik H-Beta filter to assist. I'm probably going to need darker skies than I can get here so I'll need to be a bit more mobile to succeed I reckon.

I've heard of folks with 20" scopes not being able to see the Horsehead so I think there are a number of factors that impact this target in addition to throwing sheer aperture at it.

[Charic]

I've often seen the 10" referenced with H-Beta filter, but still not an easy catch unless perfect conditions are present.

There's no way I could see it with my scope from my observatory, too many obstacles and restrictions, and to-date,  away from home,  I have never pointed my Skyliner towards the Head.

After Johns comments, looks like a saved journey  for me!

[alanjgreen]

I saw it several times with my C11, Ethos21 (x133 magnification) & Astronomik Hb filter last winter. It was not "in your face" but once you know where to look you can tease it out with averted vision. It tended to fade in and out of view. Checking back at my notes from January I see that I also bagged it using an Astrononik UHC on the same setup with Ethos21.

It is much bigger than you expect and that can catch you out the first time (especially if you have a long focal length scope). My notes say that I could not see it with the Ethos13 presumably the magnification (x200+) was too much in that case.

I am looing forward to pointing the 20" at it in a few months time...

Alan

[newtyng5]

Is that a 20" David Lukehurst you have? He lives near me , and getting something like that has been my dream. Love to hear your reports/observations with that beast. Horsehead will be amazing.

[jetstream]

One of the issues with shortish focal length scopes is the size (in the eyepiece) of the HH and this is where the larger scopes make it easier to see. You need good eye illumination with an Hb filter and this constraint places a magnification limit we can use.

Your 8" will show it Martin, but the Flame should be bright and segmented and IC434 should show well too - it is under these conditions that the HH will reveal itself. Widefield scopes benefit from narrowing up the FOV to keep Alnitak at bay.

Try the Flame no filter, up the mag and write up a report!

[Knighty2112]

Going to try for HH at the SGL starparty at Lucksall with my C8 I got off you Grumpy with my UHC filter. If I’m successful (or not!) in seeing it I’ll let you know in a couple of weeks time (weather permitting!).  

[John]

30 minutes ago, Knighty2112 said:

Going to try for HH at the SGL starparty at Lucksall with my C8 I got off you Grumpy with my UHC filter. If I’m successful (or not!) in seeing it I’ll let you know in a couple of weeks time (weather permitting!).  

It was seen at Lucksall a few years back with a 16" dob and an Astronomik H-Beta filter. I recall this because I arrived the day after and the skies did not clear again for the rest of the star party

I still think the best description of seeing the Horsehead Nebula was provided by Jeremy Perez on his excellent web site "The Belt of Venus":

"Really, it's like trying to see a little bit of nothing with a little bit of less than nothing resting over it..."

Here is his page on this target:

http://www.perezmedia.net/beltofvenus/archives/000379.html

 

[Knighty2112]

23 minutes ago, John said:

It was seen at Lucksall a few years back with a 16" dob and an Astronomik H-Beta filter. I recall this because I arrived the day after and the skies did not clear again for the rest of the star party

 

That’s the worst nightmare scenario possible! Yikes! Contingency plans are prepared in case of this though, but hoping for the best.  

[PeterW]

As said, it you don't see the nebulae well you aren't going to see something against them. Then working out what scale if nothing you are looking for and where it should be seen. 

 

Good luck

PEter

[alanjgreen]

I agree with the above. This object can take several sessions to reveal itself. If you can see the flame nebula clearly then the horse head is on... if you can't see the flame then you won't see the HH.

find the long streak of nebula running through the HH and get comfortable tracing it up and down.

then look for the two stars that point at the HH from the side. 

Now, get comfy and let the HH fade into view.

but it's BIG so you may miss it as you are looking for a little horsey shape, it's more of a large bay shape!

you will need to buy high quality filter too. At least a top notch UHC, preferably a top notch Hb

Alan

[Knighty2112]

This is the approximate view I would get in my C8 SCT using my Celestron X-Cel 18mm EP. With both stars HD37699 and HD37805 (upper left 11o’clock position) in view in the EP I should be able to frame it so that (hopefully) HH might be visible if conditions allow. Fingers crossed folks!  

[scarp15]

Not improbable to observe in your 8" F4.5 scope, though it might become a little easier if you could gain an opportunity to first see it in a larger scope perhaps 12, 14, 16". It is an object that feels challenging to begin with until seen with conviction, after which it almost becomes something that you feel accustomed to seeing. Gaining familiarity on difficult subjects with a larger scope, injects confidence and eases the observation process when returning to these subjects using a smaller aperture. Quite as others have said, focus more on observing with some clarity the Flame.   

[Paul73]

1 hour ago, Knighty2112 said:

Going to try for HH at the SGL starparty at Lucksall with my C8 I got off you Grumpy with my UHC filter. If I’m successful (or not!) in seeing it I’ll let you know in a couple of weeks time (weather permitting!).  

Me too. 16" Dob and John's old Lumicon Hb filter.

Not sure where my pitch is yet. 

Paul

[Knighty2112]

55 minutes ago, Paul73 said:

Me too. 16" Dob and John's old Lumicon Hb filter.

Not sure where my pitch is yet. 

Paul

Good luck. If you nab it let me know and I’ll have a looksie too please in your 16” dob!

Not sure of my pitch yet either. 

[scarp15]

What I have learnt in pursuit of this, is that the contrast needs to be just right. F4.5 might be slightly disadvantaged at 8" and with a wider field, which will already be difficult. Equally very dark skies, I observe in SQM readings of 21.3 + and always restless to gain an improvement, very good transparency and complete dark adaption (so as far as possible no red light either). Time spent on other dim and challenging objects is also required as a lead up. Eyepieces can vary, I regret at times not holding onto my 20mm nagler, which was very capable on this, my 20mm TeleVue plossl 4.34mm exit pupil performs really well on identifying each component, NGC 2024, IC 434, B33. Training your eye, employing averted vision and understanding correctly the star-field and a good dollop of patience also necessary, as is a good quality H-beta filter. Another eyepiece considered very effective at moderate aperture (between say 10 and 16") is the 19mm Panoptic. It is an alluring if slightly ludicrous object to become obsessed on really, but one in which many including myself find compelling and like to try to visit each season.  

[mikeDnight]

In the way of encouragement, the streak of nebulosity, IC434, extending from Alnitak is visible in a 4" scope on a transparent night and with good dark adaption. Use a blackout hood or blanket to block the noise from surrounding light and distractions. It will take 15 to 20 mins to attain proper dark adaption, after which allow your eye to naturally scan the area, keeping Alnitak out of the field. My 4" didn't show the shape of the horse head but did hint at its position. A 8" should be able to pin it down!

[AstroSylv1]

Seen with my 16 » and XW20 with Astronomik H beta filter

[swamp thing]

I think I've seen it in all the dob mobs scopes (18"-22").

If it's up one of us usually points at it at some point to check sky darkness/transparency. It's a good indicator of the quality of the sky you are observing from.

 

[Guest]

I am really encouraged by the information you have all posted. I will strongly consider the Hb filter. I am also pleasantly surprised at how well my 8 inch  Newtonian performs in really dark skies. I will persist over the winter months.

Thanks.

[estwing]

Saw it at Bala with faulksy, took about an hour to definitely see it ...took 5 seconds on Skye!

[Beulah]

4 hours ago, swamp thing said:

I think I've seen it in all the dob mobs scopes (18"-22").

If it's up one of us usually points at it at some point to check sky darkness/transparency. It's a good indicator of the quality of the sky you are observing from.

 

You say that in a casual way...as if it's as easy as finding the Moon.

Gonna try and bag it this year...if I manage to finish the dob build in time...

 

[John]

If it was easy to see, the Horsehead would not have attained the status it has as an observing ambition for many

I blame the "Observers Book of Astronomy" which I seem to recall contained an alluring black and white image of the Horsehead Nebula that I'm sure stuck in many an aspiring astronomers mind as it did in mine

 

[ollypenrice]

Two guests saw it last week in a 6 inch with H beta filter. They are very experienced observers, though. I didn't get a chance to take a look this time so I've only seen it in our 20 inch, both with UHC and H Beta.

According to some, exit pupil is very important. It should not be too small. I can't comment, having only seen it with the same EP each time. (6mm exit pupil.)

Olly

PS I haven't researched the origin of the name but I bet nobody ever called it the Horsehead before the photographic era...