New Orion (USA) 80 Degree Range

[John]

I've not seen these before. I wonder what lies beneath the skin ?. The eye relief is stated at 20mm and that appears to apply across the range. If that is the case then these break some new ground - no other 80-something degree range that I know of gives that sort of eye relief in the shorter focal lengths.  An 80 degree range for the glasses wearers perhaps ?:

http://uk.telescope.com/Accessories/New-Accessories/Orion-LHD-80-Degree-Lanthanum-Ultra-Wide-1252-Eyepieces/pc/-1/c/1308/sc/1384/e/274.uts

[Ricochet]

These look interesting with the lanthanum element, that's usually a good sign. I'll have to keep an eye out for the reviews, specifically on the 20mm as that's where I've possibly got a gap in my collection. I think they could do with a few more in the range though, I'd probably have been most interested in one around the 30mm mark.

[Louis D]

It says right on their web page that it has a 30mm eye lens.  That is big enough for a 70 degree field and 20mm of eye relief as is the case with the many 70 degree LER eyepieces out there like the AT AF70, Celestron Ultima LX, Olivon 70, etc.  It's the same size as the Nagler T4 eye lens which is slightly undersized for using an 82 degree field with eyewear.  Trigonometrically, at 80 degrees with a 30mm eye lens, you'll only have 18mm of eye relief.  This is still doable with eyeglasses, but not nearly as comfortably as with 20mm or more.  Add in the raised lip, and you lose another millimeter or so.  Given their price, I'll stick with the 76 degree Morpheus line with their 37mm eye lenses and the ES-92 line with their 43mm eye lenses.  For the Orion's money, I'll stick with the TV Delos which are superb if only 72 degrees.

[John]

2 minutes ago, Louis D said:

It says right on their web page that it has a 30mm eye lens.  That is big enough for a 70 degree field and 20mm of eye relief as is the case with the many 70 degree LER eyepieces out there like the AT AF70, Celestron Ultima LX, Olivon 70, etc.  It's the same size as the Nagler T4 eye lens which is slightly undersized for using an 82 degree field with eyewear.  Trigonometrically, at 80 degrees with a 30mm eye lens, you'll only have 18mm of eye relief.  This is still doable with eyeglasses, but not nearly as comfortably as with 20mm or more.  Add in the raised lip, and you lose another millimeter or so.  Given their price, I'll stick with the 76 degree Morpheus line with their 37mm eye lenses and the ES-92 line with their 43mm eye lenses.  For the Orion's money, I'll stick with the TV Delos which are superb if only 72 degrees.

For the Orions money we can get the Pentax XW's over here but we need to find another £80 for a Delos.

 

[mikeDnight]

Would I be right in saying that the American ORION merely label generic eyepieces as their own brand? This isn't to say that these eyepieces are not good, just that there's a chance the same eyepiece could be bought for considerably less from other companies. Are they Japanese or Chinese in origin?

 

[John]

24 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

Would I be right in saying that the American ORION merely label generic eyepieces as their own brand? This isn't to say that these eyepieces are not good, just that there's a chance the same eyepiece could be bought for considerably less from other companies. Are they Japanese or Chinese in origin?

 

Thats my understanding Mike. Some Orion branded stuff is made by Synta (who own Skywatcher and Celestron now). Some is sourced elsewhere. There have been Orion branded versions of Vixen eyepieces in the past and I did wonder if these were re-branded (and re-bodied) Vixen SSW's but the focal lengths don't match. Eyepieces such as the UWAN / Nirvana's have appeared under Orion branding too. There have even been Orion re-branded versions of the Russian Intes Mak-Cassegrains and Mak-newtonians in the past. I used to own one in fact:

 

 

[Dave In Vermont]

Orion-USA even has a version of the Baader Hyperion's branded with the Orion-name. But this is true of most eyepieces - which are actually Synta or GSO, re-branded and made to the desires of the seller's carrying them for retail-sales.

As a result, I look for the one's from the shops I patronize: Best after-care of customers. And a balance of lower-cost and free-shipping become of greater importance to me than which brand-name is attached to the eyepiece (or other gear).

Have fun -

Dave

[Louis D]

Orion-USA's greatest claim to fame is/was their generous return policy.  You could return items without restocking fees for any reason.  I don't know if that is still the case.

13 hours ago, John said:

For the Orions money we can get the Pentax XW's over here but we need to find another £80 for a Delos.

                        US prices           UK prices in US dollars (VAT included)

Orion LHD-80 : $269.99                         $334

Pentax XW     : $299 - $359            $325 - $420

Televue Delos : $340                        $431 - $450

Morpheus       : $239                              $220

I was cross comparing the Orion LHD-80 UK price to the US Delos price.  A difference of $6. I see what you mean about UK pricing on the Delos and XW.  That's crazy.

The Morpheus is cheaper either way than the Orion.  The Morpheus are even more of a deal in the UK than they are here.  I cross imported one earlier this year for $186 shipped to Texas.  That puts it on par with used Pentax XL eyepieces.  They were also on sale for $199 here after I had bought mine.

[spaceboy]

14 hours ago, John said:

Thats my understanding Mike. Some Orion branded stuff is made by Synta (who own Skywatcher and Celestron now). Some is sourced elsewhere. There have been Orion branded versions of Vixen eyepieces in the past and I did wonder if these were re-branded (and re-bodied) Vixen SSW's but the focal lengths don't match. Eyepieces such as the UWAN / Nirvana's have appeared under Orion branding too. There have even been Orion re-branded versions of the Russian Intes Mak-Cassegrains and Mak-newtonians in the past. I used to own one in fact:

 

 

I think its all one manufacturer and a bunch of brand names. I know Saxon, celestron, sw, orion, Helios, opticon, WO and a couple other who other than colour scheme seem to label the same basic budget products. Beyond that some set themselves apart with their own line of higher spec offerings. WO most notably but celestron also seem to claim better xlt coatings. Whether this is just marketing or an actual difference in application or content is debatable. It also seems true with bresser products in that they closely resemble ES and Meade's offerings. One manufacturer several brand names.

[Polstar_UK]

I decided to try the new 2” 20mm Orion LHD 80 degree range as a replacement to the 1.25” 20mm Orion Expanse that I’ve been using for the past few years, a 20mm EP in my scope gives 60x magnification and 1.33 degree true field of view.

 

My viewing site was the usual garden spot, I live in a small village and light pollution is moderate. About 12 miles to the north is the city of Sheffield. It was early evening and even though the weather forecast gave clear skies there was some light clouds. The viewing lasted from 8-10pm viewing conditions was not the best.

 

The targets for the night was the thin crescent of the moon, then a very low Jupiter and Saturn followed by Mizar.

 

Looking at the moon I saw good crisp, bright and clear images of the craters and mountains, as the sky grew darker the more detail became apparent. The EP gave a good wide view, there was plenty of black space around the moon. There was good clearance from the EP even with my glasses on. I did not see or notice any colour distortion, nor did I see any edge distortion.

 

Jupiter as I mentioned earlier was low in the sky and at the other side of the solar system, I did get a good wide view with the moons visible as bright stars. I could just make out a few cloud bands. Saturn was similar with a good view of the planet. The EP really impressed me when looking at the double star Mizar, the amount of space viewable was amazing and I was able to see Alcor & Mizar B in the same field of view.

 

Overall I was really impressed with the Orion LHD 20mm, I don’t have many other manufacturers or types to compare against. Whilst it is £200 more expensive than the £50 Expanse that I’ve been using its also £200 cheaper than the equivalent Tele Vue Nagler 2” 20mm.

 

 

 

[John]

Intersting feedback - thanks

 

[25585]

A CN thread says they are Long Perng made, so Chinese. GSO labelled somewhere for lower price maybe. 

If I am unable to get a 22mm LVW, how would the Orion rate against it & the 20 XW? The Orions are now on Amazon UK for sale. 

[25585]

Have the 20mm Orion now. Due for a test against a Celestron 22mm Ultima LX (also 2 inch) 70 deg and my new Takahashi 28mm Erfle, which is 1.25 inch fit. All 3 have very close AFOV, but in the Tak's case less magnification.

The Orion 14mm is also 2 inches, but has a smaller FOV than APM's 13mm 100 deg, both prices close enough to consider either. Usable eye relief and bean/cut-off-free less exact positioning would be the deal maker for me. 

[John]

11 minutes ago, 25585 said:

Have the 20mm Orion now. Due for a test against a Celestron 22mm Ultima LX (also 2 inch) 70 deg and my new Takahashi 28mm Erfle, which is 1.25 inch fit. All 3 have very close AFOV, but in the Tak's case less magnification.

The Orion 14mm is also 2 inches, but has a smaller FOV than APM's 13mm 100 deg, both prices close enough to consider either. Usable eye relief and bean/cut-off-free less exact positioning would be the deal maker for me. 

Surprised that you were not out last night with these - it was a cracking night here in N Somerset

[25585]

45 minutes ago, John said:

Surprised that you were not out last night with these - it was a cracking night here in N Somerset

I was planning to, but forgot the effect half a bottle of Prosecco can have. ?

Tonight looks promising so a tee-total day today. ?

[LukeSkywatcher]

"It says right on their web page that it has a 30mm eye lens". Nope. It says the eyepices have a 30mm diameter glass element (the bit you look into). No 30mm in the range. Very small range and unusual to have both 1.25" and 2" in the same range. Why would the larger (low powered) eyepieces not also be 1.25"?

[Louis D]

2 hours ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

"It says right on their web page that it has a 30mm eye lens". Nope. It says the eyepices have a 30mm diameter glass element (the bit you look into). No 30mm in the range.

I'm a bit confused by your comment.  And I quote from https://uk.telescope.com/Accessories/New-Accessories/Orion-LHD-80-Degree-Lanthanum-Ultra-Wide-1252-Eyepieces/pc/-1/c/1308/sc/1384/e/274.uts, the URL at the start of this thread:

"Long 20mm eye relief and large 30mm-diameter eye lens lets eyeglass wearers enjoy the view comfortably without removing glasses"

I'd say it says 30mm diameter eye lens, not glass element.  I never said they have a 30mm focal length eyepiece in their range.  Are you mixing up the terms lens and eyepiece?  In US English, we never refer to eyepieces as lenses.  I've noticed more than a few UK posters using the term lens for eyepiece which can get confusing when also discussing the sub-parts of an eyepiece which includes lenses.

2 hours ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

Very small range and unusual to have both 1.25" and 2" in the same range. Why would the larger (low powered) eyepieces not also be 1.25"?

I'll grant you the 14mm focal length could probably be made to fit in a 1.25 barrel since both the 16mm Nagler T5 and 14mm ES-82 fit in 1.25" barrels, but how would suggest they fit the large field lens required for the 20mm into a 1.25" barrel when the 20mm Nagler T2 and T5 and 20mm Meade 5000 UWA all require 2" barrels because their field lenses exceed 27mm?  I suppose you could fit them up above the 1.25" barrel like the Celestron Ultima 35mm, require lots of in focus, and live with some vignetting.

[Louis D]

4 hours ago, 25585 said:

Have the 20mm Orion now. Due for a test against a Celestron 22mm Ultima LX (also 2 inch) 70 deg and my new Takahashi 28mm Erfle, which is 1.25 inch fit. All 3 have very close AFOV, but in the Tak's case less magnification.

Get a 17mm ES-92 to throw in the mix as well since it has almost the exact same TFOV (what I think you meant rather than AFOV) as those eyepieces.  I've verified this by swapping my 17mm ES-92 for my 22mm Astro Tech AF70.  Neither is better than the other aesthetically.  One is more immersive while the other is easier to take in as a whole in one view.

[LukeSkywatcher]

I took it to mean 20mm eye relief and the eyepiece has a 30mm diameter at the top where you look through. Possibly i took it wrong because to me an eyepiece is the whole thing. A lens to me is just a piece of round glass.

I have noticed that what we (in this part of the world) call an eyepiece, Americans call a lens. Orion is an American company so they possibly do mean "eyepiece".

Anyways.....i see no mention of a 30mm FL "lens" and the picture doesnt show one.

Sorry about any confusion. As author Bill Bryson said in his book (Mother Tongue)................."American English and the Queens English are similar but in about 50 yrs, they might be 2 completely different languages.

[LukeSkywatcher]

"I took it to mean 20mm eye relief and the eyepiece has a 30mm diameter at the top where you look through".

Its a bad day when you quote yourself.LOL. By my above comment, that reads as a 30mm FL eyepiece/ lens with 20mm eye relief.

Sorry for any confusion caused. 

"I'll grant you the 14mm focal length could probably be made to fit in a 1.25 barrel since both the 16mm Nagler T5 and 14mm ES-82 fit in 1.25" barrels, but how would suggest they fit the large field lens required for the 20mm into a 1.25" barrel when the 20mm Nagler T2 and T5 and 20mm Meade 5000 UWA all require 2" barrels because their field lenses exceed 27mm?  I suppose you could fit them up above the 1.25" barrel like the Celestron Ultima 35mm, require lots of in focus, and live with some vignetting".

Im not technically minded when it comes to scopes or eyepieces/lens, so i dont know these things. I was just thinking its strange to have both 1.25" and 2" in the same set of eyepieces/lens. You've explained it well to me.

[Ricochet]

1 hour ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

I have noticed that what we (in this part of the world) call an eyepiece, Americans call a lens

No, those who know what they are talking about call eyepieces, eyepieces. New users might call an eyepiece a lens, just like new UK users might on this forum. The eye lens is the lens closest to the eye when you are looking through the eyepiece. In the eyepiece under discussion this lens has a diameter of 30mm. 

[LukeSkywatcher]

2 minutes ago, Ricochet said:

No, those who know what they are talking about call eyepieces, eyepieces. New users might call an eyepiece a lens, just like new UK users might on this forum. The eye lens is the lens closest to the eye when you are looking through the eyepiece. In the eyepiece under discussion this lens has a diameter of 30mm. 

See, thats what i took it to mean. So i am/was correct. 

Thanks for putting my mind at ease.LOL. 

[25585]

Eye lens is more a binocular term?

[LukeSkywatcher]

1 minute ago, 25585 said:

Eye lens is more a binocular term?

Lens at the back and objective at the front. You could also call the front objective a lens.

[John]

46 minutes ago, 25585 said:

Eye lens is more a binocular term?

No, its an established term for the top lens in an astronomical eyepiece (as well as eyepieces for other uses), the one that you put your eye to.

The lens furthest from it is known as the field lens.

Other lenses in the eyepiece are known as "the other lenses"