It's all about perseverance really

[Littleguy80]

Part of the excitement when I started to become more serious about my astronomy was the seeming endless lists of things to see. I spent my sessions chasing a long list of different targets with varying degrees of success. With a few months experience under my belt, I find myself often going to known targets with fewer new targets. The reason for this is that the view varies every time.

Nearly every session I got to Saturn because it never fails to make me smile. Most of the time the seeing is a bit wobbly with no sign of the Cassini Division and the only moon I can see is Titan. Then you get a night like last night. From the first look, the Cassini Division jumped right out. Everything looked sharp. I was using my 5mm BGO for 180x mag, no filter required. As well as Cassini, I noted some banding on the planet itself. I'd never noticed this before though I will confess that the rings are normally my main focus. Whilst observing the planet, suddenly a tiny moon popped into view. As soon as I looked at it directly it disappeared. Clearly averted vision was required. I'm honestly not sure which one it was but it was fantastic to see another of Saturn's moons. 

Things got cloudy soon after that but I did take another run at the Veil. I've tried to see the Veil on many occasions now but only had one successful viewing of the nebula itself. I know this region fairly well now and as the skies darken towards the end of summer, I'm sure the persistence will pay off with some great views of that target too. 

[geoflewis]

9 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

Then you get a night like last night. From the first look, the Cassini Division jumped right out.

I agree, last night was very good seeing from Norfolk....

[ronin]

The OIII filter should help on the Veil, looking at it the UHC should be useful also - it passes OIII and Ha and even if no Ha the OIII aspect would be the relevant bit. Not 100% sure of the H excitation in the Veil, guessig at 0.

One question on the Veil is your FoV, is it big enough to realise that you are looking at the nebula? The Veil is big and like M31 people see a bit but not the majority and so do not realise what is in the view.

 

[Paul73]

Nice report.

Moon spotting is fun. You can get moons around Uranus too!

It is a bit different every time.

Looking forward to the darker nights.

Paul

[Littleguy80]

10 minutes ago, ronin said:

?

I'm using a 24mm ES68 with an OIII. The good view of the Veil I had was in May when they skies were darker. I think it's a combination of lighter skies and local light pollution that's preventing me from seeing it at the moment. 

[scarp15]

44 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

 I've tried to see the Veil on many occasions now but only had one successful viewing of the nebula itself. I know this region fairly well now and as the skies darken towards the end of summer, I'm sure the persistence will pay off with some great views of that target too. 

Exactly that wait until towards late Summer, darker sky and plan to aim for a dark location, keep up the perseverance and it will pay off.

[ronin]

I forget which object it was, may have been the Veil (some doubt), but someone else in Cambridge about 6 months back had tried for something (Veil or whatever) with their 16". They went to one the IoA nights, suspect they mentioned the target and they put an OIII filter in and there was the target shown in a 12". If 12" it had to be the Northumberland.

The IoA these days sits in a fair pool of light pollution. And if whatever target is is not in the light pollution it is behind the trees.

[MarsG76]

Nice report... Looks like you had a nice observation night... I agree that Saturn is one object that get looked at over and over again, never get old.

With nebula, as stated above, a UHC filter will help... OIII is meant to show certain nebulae better, and one of those nebulae is the veil, but personally I find more enjoyment using the UHC rather than the OIII... basically because the views of nebulae are more detailed and breathtaking using a UHC filter... atleast so far using my kit.

[Littleguy80]

1 minute ago, MarsG76 said:

With nebula, as stated above, a UHC filter will help... OIII is meant to show certain nebulae better, and one of those nebulae is the veil, but personally I find more enjoyment using the UHC rather than the OIII... basically because the views of nebulae are more detailed and breathtaking using a UHC filter... atleast so far using my kit.

That's a good point. I really should get in habit of trying both UHC and OIII filters on nebulae just to see how much difference there between them 

[MarsG76]

3 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

That's a good point. I really should get in habit of trying both UHC and OIII filters on nebulae just to see how much difference there between them 

If you're using a 130mm scope, the OIII might make the view too dim... I never looked at the Veil Nebula using my kit, but on another bright nebula, (The Carina Nebula) the view was a lot dimmer through the OIII compared to the view through the UHC filter, which was amazing, and this is using a 356mm mirror... I recommend you try to borrow or otherwise test out the OIII before purchasing... where as for the UHC, I think it should be in every observers arsenal... Brands I recommend are Lumicon and Astronomik. Both are just as good in my opinion.

[Paul73]

I've enjoyed good views of the Veil with 80mm + OIII. Just avoid the really aggressive OIII filters like the Baadar. UHC will help things. But OIII is the way to go for the Veil and quite a lot of the smaller Planetary nebula.

With a nice wide field scope, enjoy the diversity of the night sky. Get a PN, Galaxy and a globular in 1 Fov! Flit up and down the Milky Way. This is fun, accessible, relaxing astro.

It isn't always about big scopes.......

Paul

[Stu]

Nice going, as you say keep trying under different circumstances and sooner or later you will get the views you are after.

OIII is the one to use on the Veil, it gives better contrast and visibility of it than a UHC in my experience.

Don't forget, filters are not magic bullets. They do dim the overall image, aswell as removing the unwanted frequencies so making sure you are dark adapted properly still makes a reall difference to what you see.

I've said this on other threads sorry to bore.... one of my favourite views of the Veil was in Dorset with a 4" widefield refractor showing 5 degrees of sky and with an OIII filter the whole Veil complex was visible, very beautiful indeed.

Obviously a larger aperture scopes provides much more detailed views of the Veil, but only smaller portions at a time. My 8" Edge under a dark sky showed lovely detail, particularly in the eastern Veil with the two lovely 'hooks' at the end.

Keep trying, and keep your eyes as dark adapted as possible, even a brief look at a bright light will kill your vision. A good 30 to 45 mins proper adaptation makes a real difference.

[scarp15]

UHC and good OIII filters each are valid tools, I went for several years using just an OIII, its still my most used filter and in a dark enough sky applicable with my 76mm refractor straight up to my 350mm dobsonian. On the Veil it is like attaching an extra pair of eyes, a potentially dim or invisible object emerges with clarity and distinction.

[alan potts]

Saturn must be fairly low from the UK as it is nothing to shout about from here and I have 10 degrees advantage. Had a look at it last night with an older 130mm TMB with Lzos optics that someone here is trying to sell, lens cell number 087, it was as sharp as a razor in those moments when the atmosphere choose to stop still for a moment,it's been very hot here of late. 

[cloudsweeper]

Nice account, Neil!  Persistence certainly does pay, and with each breakthrough, confidence increases.

It's always good to know which moons you've seen - I have Stellarium on the go while observing (night view plus red acetate sheet) so I can immediately see which moons I'm looking at.  Got four of Saturn's a few weeks ago!  (To correct for inversion, use CTRL ^ H.)

Doug.

[Stu]

1 hour ago, cloudsweeper said:

Nice account, Neil!  Persistence certainly does pay, and with each breakthrough, confidence increases.

It's always good to know which moons you've seen - I have Stellarium on the go while observing (night view plus red acetate sheet) so I can immediately see which moons I'm looking at.  Got four of Saturn's a few weeks ago!  (To correct for inversion, use CTRL ^ H.)

Doug.

The moons can be challenging. Have a look at this thread, it helps to play around with mag to get the optimum, sometimes they get lost in the glare.

 

[MarsG76]

18 hours ago, Paul73 said:

I've enjoyed good views of the Veil with 80mm + OIII. Just avoid the really aggressive OIII filters like the Baadar. UHC will help things. But OIII is the way to go for the Veil and quite a lot of the smaller Planetary nebula.

With a nice wide field scope, enjoy the diversity of the night sky. Get a PN, Galaxy and a globular in 1 Fov! Flit up and down the Milky Way. This is fun, accessible, relaxing astro.

It isn't always about big scopes.......

Paul

 

18 hours ago, Stu said:

Nice going, as you say keep trying under different circumstances and sooner or later you will get the views you are after.

OIII is the one to use on the Veil, it gives better contrast and visibility of it than a UHC in my experience.

Don't forget, filters are not magic bullets. They do dim the overall image, aswell as removing the unwanted frequencies so making sure you are dark adapted properly still makes a reall difference to what you see.

I've said this on other threads sorry to bore.... one of my favourite views of the Veil was in Dorset with a 4" widefield refractor showing 5 degrees of sky and with an OIII filter the whole Veil complex was visible, very beautiful indeed.

Obviously a larger aperture scopes provides much more detailed views of the Veil, but only smaller portions at a time. My 8" Edge under a dark sky showed lovely detail, particularly in the eastern Veil with the two lovely 'hooks' at the end.

Keep trying, and keep your eyes as dark adapted as possible, even a brief look at a bright light will kill your vision. A good 30 to 45 mins proper adaptation makes a real difference.

 

17 hours ago, scarp15 said:

UHC and good OIII filters each are valid tools, I went for several years using just an OIII, its still my most used filter and in a dark enough sky applicable with my 76mm refractor straight up to my 350mm dobsonian. On the Veil it is like attaching an extra pair of eyes, a potentially dim or invisible object emerges with clarity and distinction.

Makes me think that I'm too critical of the OIII and perhaps the objects I tried with it were simply the wrong objects to see the true benefit.

 

[MarsG76]

8 hours ago, cloudsweeper said:

Nice account, Neil!  Persistence certainly does pay, and with each breakthrough, confidence increases.

It's always good to know which moons you've seen - I have Stellarium on the go while observing (night view plus red acetate sheet) so I can immediately see which moons I'm looking at.  Got four of Saturn's a few weeks ago!  (To correct for inversion, use CTRL ^ H.)

Doug.

GAS GIANTS is another good app, the one I use.

 

[Littleguy80]

1 hour ago, MarsG76 said:

Makes me think that I'm too critical of the OIII and perhaps the objects I tried with it were simply the wrong objects to see the true benefit.

I've certainly found my OIII works well on small planetary nebulae. I've used it successfully on M27, M57 and the Cats eye nebula. 

[MarsG76]

22 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

I've certainly found my OIII works well on small planetary nebulae. I've used it successfully on M27, M57 and the Cats eye nebula. 

Now you have me thinking by naming the Cats Eye and M27... perhaps it will be great on nebulae like the rosette and Helix.... 

[Stu]

This is a great resource, often linked to on SGL

http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org/filter-performance-comparisons-for-some-common-nebulae/

[MarsG76]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

This is a great resource, often linked to on SGL

http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org/filter-performance-comparisons-for-some-common-nebulae/

Great article... will help me a bit me thinks