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Observatory Planning Permission


ACross

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I have designed and started constructing a hexagonal frame for my observatory but have been told by the legal authorities that I may have to apply for planning permission as it is sited less than 2 metres from the boundary. They want me to submit a pe-planning application to assess it.

Costs aside this causes some concerns:

  • The planning process could delay the build by three months;
  • A full application will publicise that a lot of expensive equipment is being housed in my garden;
  • CIL (Community Infrastructure Levy) could kick in as works have started before exemption is granted;

I have a very very private garden that can only be seen by two neighbours, if they crane their necks. All my neighbours enthusiastically support the project and have asked to have a look, once it is up.

Has anyone else run into difficulties with planning permission for an observatory?

How many people have built one without applying for planning permission?

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Does you council have a development exempt status for structure that is up to a certain size, distance from neighboring houses and whether it is a permanent structure or not and whether its habitable?

In some places up to a certain height and foot print does not need approval in it's not habitable and no one complains that its a eye sore.

 

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I would also check size constraints first, but if you do need a permit, can't you just specify it as a shed? (After all, most of the time it will be used for storage of your gear.) That way you won't have to disclose its content. If you do need to specify, make sure you install a security system.

Good luck

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There are exemptions from PP for timber garden structures subject to certain conditions. I think that the relevant one here is that the height of the highest point must be no more than 2.5m above the ground if you are within 2m of a boundary (3m is allowed further than 2m from a boundary). I had to design my obsy to keep under the 2.5m limit (another 10cm would have made some of the design considerably easier).

cheers,

Robin

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My POD is right up against next doors fence and I am sure is over 2.5m high with the decking.  But Altair Astro who sold it said it is a regarded as a temporary structure and no PP is required.  I guess because it comes apart quite easy and can be moved.

So I simply discussed it with the next door neighbours who were happy with it and went ahead.  

I was more worried about the 12.6" scenery shed we built down the end of the garden to house the 11' scenery for my theatre group, we again asked the neighbours and basically got away with it for about 25 years.  During which time the council came round to inspect for our application for council tax exemption when we were looking after my disabled mother in law on the basis that we had to make adaptations in the house (stair lift etc).  It was a stroke of luck we had a marquee in the garden at the time where theatre members were painting the scenery, and this obscured the view to the over height scenery shed.

Anyway, it's all water under the bridge now, as the scenery has gone and it has been lowered into a normal shed.

Carole 

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Planning permission seems to be needed if the building is a permanent structure. One way out is a 2.2 metre fibreglass dome. According to Pulsar planning permission is not needed because the building being bolted together is of a temporary nature and can be dismantled and reconstructed elsewhere.. ??

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Problem is that placing a huge lump of concrete into the ground makes it technically a permanent structure. Now the flip side is that its never stopped anyone else on here. Just make sure its less than the 2.5m maximum height and you will be fine. 

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One more thing - if you are concerned, look into applying for a 'Certificate of Permitted Development' - it's not formal planning permission, basically it's a confirmation from the planning office that your plans do fall within the permitted development rules. Of course if they say 'no' then you have to go to planning permission...

Robin

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You have my sympathy for having to deal with planning.

A couple of years back I wanted to extend my garage and ended up spending well over £1000 on paperwork for (in my opinion) parasites before a spade hit the ground.
Then building regs got involved and I had to get a structural engineers report on the fundations because the council building regs man (who I had paid for) was out of his depth.
A few scribbled sheets with 'back of envelope' calculations sorted this. Albeit at almost £100 a page. Yes just a garage to house a couple of cars, located in an ordinary garden!

However, to the matter in hand. If your planning department think you need planning permision, ask them why. Ask what aspect of your proposed construction has caused this.
Do it in writing so they can't change their mind later and deny the phone call. On the face of it, I can't help thinking you have not been given correct advice.

In my case, the office staff got the building regs fees wrong and had to send me a big cheque by return. Then their inspector thought a log burner was in the existing part of the garage, when it was actually in the house!
That was just for starters. Had the inspector been to the famous opticians?

What I'm getting at is that the rules are fairly complex. All too often those in, or sent by, the town hall don't get it right.
If you find out some of the rules for yourself and ask them to justify their conclusions, that is the only way forward.

Hope this helps.

David.

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I was in the same boat as Carole when I cam to "install" my POD. All I did was chat it over with the neighbours who had no issue with it and went ahead. As it's a bolt together construction on top of timber decking, rightly or wrongly I didn't even consider planing permission!

Steve

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Thank you for all your replies, there are some good points here.

The dome I am now using is a second hand 2.2m Pulsar, which stands at just under 2.5m high but I am sitting this on a timber platform 630mm high so total height around 3.1 meters. I had originally planned to build a geodesic dome from laser cut ply and cover with fibreglass (Sketchup file available if anyone is interested) but I got the Pulsar for less than the materials costs.

It seems the planners are deliberately vague when interpreting the rules, being synical maybe they need the funds. My mistake was to call and ask them but it has just occurred to me that I never gave them any contact details and they do not have my full address, only the town. If I interpret the rule one way, the only structural part is the concrete column pier and that is not within two metres of the boundary, everything else is detached from it and free-standing. As to the height, my neighbours leylandii is almost five times the height!

Carole: it is encouraging to know that you and plenty of others on here have either not needed or applied for permission; after six years it would be very difficult for thee planners to enforce anything.

Given that this is a free-standing equipment enclosure I have decided not to apply, either for pre-planning advice or a full application. I will deal with it retrospectively if the planners find out and request it.  To be clear (in case any planners or legals read this): this decision is not based on any advice given here, but my own choice. 

 

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Robin: your point about permitted development is the key: applying for pre-planning advice opens the door to them requesting a full plans application, purely on the basis that they do not know how to classify the observatory; is it a shed, is it a structure, equipment enclosure, tool store, etc. It doesn't even have a roof, given the right weather conditions (hopefully)!

The planning "rules" change & flex so often it is a wonder anyone can keep up. 

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Steve: I didn't consider planning either, until the fourth person mentioned it and that got me concerned enough to call them. 

Has anyone here had to apply for retrospective permission for their obs?

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Just asked my tame planning officer (wife). Because its closer than 2m and exceeds 2.5m it would need planning permission, but if its up for more than four years (document end of construction) you are immune from enforcement action, you could then ask for a certificate of lawful development. Just be warned that your current neighbours might not complain, but even people looking to purchase a neighbours house could enquire and then you would likely get a visit. Things get more complicated if your house is listed, in which case there is no date when enforcement could not be taken.

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On 7/5/2017 at 11:34, rwg said:

The rules on permitted development for outbuildings don't actually mention permanent or temporary - have a look at

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/606669/170405_Householder_Technical_Guidance__-April_2017_FINAL.pdf

and read the 'Class E' section.

cheers,

Robin

big thanks for posting that link. 

I was disappointed to see the max vol class E is 3500 litres.

So 3,5 cubic m.

For an observatory I was thinking something much bigger would be needed ...  2 mounts plus warm room ... 2x2x3=12 cubic m ?)

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18 minutes ago, BrianE said:

big thanks for posting that link. 

I was disappointed to see the max vol class E is 3500 litres.

So 3,5 cubic m.

For an observatory I was thinking something much bigger would be needed ...  2 mounts plus warm room ... 2x2x3=12 cubic m ?)

Yeah, 3.5 cubic m isn't that much... perhaps if you made part of it movable, than it's not a permanent structure and you could make the stable part within spec.

 

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6 minutes ago, MarsG76 said:

Yeah, 3.5 cubic m isn't that much... perhaps if you made part of it movable, than it's not a permanent structure and you could make the stable part within spec.

 

hi Sub Dwarf.  so the issue of permanency is not the thing at all here in Eng according to this pdf. Now thinking two domes after all might be less hassle, only one of them needs to be automated (motors etc) & neither would need planning.  A big roll-off roof might be an issue anyway. 

hope your weather holding up there.

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7 minutes ago, BrianE said:

hi Sub Dwarf.  so the issue of permanency is not the thing at all here in Eng according to this pdf. Now thinking two domes after all might be less hassle, only one of them needs to be automated (motors etc) & neither would need planning.  A big roll-off roof might be an issue anyway. 

hope your weather holding up there.

Perhaps two domes might be the solution. 

I'm currently in the process of building a observatory and I'm careful to be under the parameters of needing planning certs.

My design is split into two, one smaller part permanently bolted to concrete where the storage of equipment and the laptop will be, that is way lower than the maximum allowed height and the other part which is all roll off and is just high enough to cover the fully setup scope on a peir and is still  30cm under the max height.

So I'm thinking its under size in both cases and half of it is moving and easily pulled apart so it is not, or shouldn't be classified as a permanent building structure... on top of that it is all miles away from any other house. I'm thinking that this should cover it.

For the last 2 weeks, weather here is good for a winter, sunny days and low 20s degrees every day... of course that's because I'm at work.. I'm planning to be out there with my 14" dob tomorrow night having a glimpse at Saturn, and I can almost put money on it that it will be overcast first night in about 2 weeks. HA.

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Just to be clear, the 3500 litre limit applies to fuel storage containers (for oil, gas,etc) - unless you're planning to store heating oil in your observatory you don't need to worry about that one!

cheers,

Robin

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24 minutes ago, rwg said:

Just to be clear, the 3500 litre limit applies to fuel storage containers (for oil, gas,etc) - unless you're planning to store heating oil in your observatory you don't need to worry about that one!

cheers,

Robin

That would make sense, 3500L is not that big in volume.

 

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