Seeing vs Observing

[Astro Imp]

What a great thread you've started @Littleguy80, always informative to hear the experienced members here give their views.

One thing that improved my observing was realising you need to be comfortable at the EP, I now always sit at the eyepiece and because I observe from home have an old towel over my head as a shield when viewing DSOs.

[Littleguy80]

Thanks @Astro Imp! I got lucky and managed to ask the right question. So many great responses

Very good point on comfort. I have started dragging a stool outside to sit on. I also throw a tea towel over my head when taking a closer look. I could probably do with something a bit thicker to properly block out the light. It keeps my wife amused that I'm outside wearing an eyepatch and a tea towel over my head!

[Astro Imp]

58 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

 It keeps my wife amused that I'm outside wearing an eyepatch and a tea towel over my head!

The neighbours must think us astronomers are a right odd bunch with our nocturnal get ups, I have the eye patch too but with the towel that's hidden 

[Littleguy80]

I was pondering the subject of exit pupil and working on my arithmetic skills  

The ES68 24mm gives me my current highest exit pupil of 3.4mm at 37.5x mag. For a low cost experiment, I'm considering trying a Vixen NPL 30mm or a 32mm Celestron Omin Plossll to see how much difference the increased exit pupil makes with my UHC/OIII filters. I would think 40mm will be too low mag even if it does get me up above the 5mm exit pupil. 

I'm thinking this might help get my eye in for some of the larger more diffuse nebula. All thoughts appreciated. 

 

[jetstream]

The most important thing is a dark sky, followed by maximizing your equipment (and gaining experience). Under 19.8 mag skies I could make out the Veil with my 90mm f7 frac/23mm Luminos/OIII with an exit pupil of 3.3mm.

I would take your existing equipment to a darker site and try it, pointing the scope at 52 Cygni (which should be easily visible naked eye) and see how the Veil looks in the 24mm/OIII. It will be a good reference point for you. I would wait on the EP purchases a bit until you try the scope under darker skies.

edit: the Milky Way should be visible to have a good chance on these objects.

[Littleguy80]

Fab, thanks Gerry. I did wonder if that would be the answer. How do you measure the mag of the skies? 

[jetstream]

There are a couple of ways- the SQM-L meter and NELM (faintest star you can see). For me the SQM really helped find dark skies and I mapped my area here in NW Ontario. It requires no dark adaptation to use one and is fast.

These days I go by how the Milky Way looks, but I already know my base darkness level with transparency being the limiting factor here. I'm not familiar with UK but some members might be able to help out with a darker spot for you near your area, or maybe you already have one.

[John]

My quick and dirty way to measure the darkness of my sky is to see how many of the stars in the square of Ursa Minor that I can see. Counting how many you can see in the Great Square of Pegasus is another one.

This link might be of interest:

https://astrobob.areavoices.com/2010/12/06/how-dark-is-your-sky/

 

[Littleguy80]

Thanks John. Great tip

[des anderson]

Keeping a log,and putting your thoughts down is great fun.I`ve been doing it for a short while,and my sketching has improved a bit,and its good to go back and see what you recorded on a particular object.Des

[spaceboy]

I have given sketching a try but never with any success. It is not that I lack artistic talent but more so the skills needed to go from the eyepiece to pad in the dark.

What I have found effective though is to have a picture handy of the chosen object. I then go from eyepiece to image and try to pick out the more subtle details. It can come as a surprise just how deep you can see when you know for sure a star or gas cloud exists in the view. When you just observe an object you may miss these details due to seeing or transparency but when you know for certain the detail is there you can wait for those fleeting moments where the point of interest reveals itself.

It is also worth returning to these same POI on different nights as skies vary hugely one night to the next which often mask the true potential of even larger instruments. 

[Littleguy80]

1 hour ago, spaceboy said:

What I have found effective though is to have a picture handy of the chosen object.

That's a really good idea! Also good point on how things change night to night. The last thing I looked at was M13 and I was a little disappointed as it wasn't as impressive as I'd seen in the past. The upside is that I'd seen it before under better conditions so I didn't write off based on one bad viewing.

[scarp15]

Studying observers sketches can be beneficial as a meaningful aid, memorised or printed. Occasionally I may find this helpful for approaching unfamiliar and often difficult faint diffuse nebulae. This should not detract from discovering aspects based upon your own findings and interpretation. Sketching, elaborate or rough, if you have the inclination, will provide an additional facet to the observation. I do aspire to sketch and have assembled a kit, but I am too preoccupied when at the eyepiece. I did attempt a couple of drawings some time ago to record the supernova in M82.     

[Littleguy80]

I thought I'd give a little follow up to this thread. Last night the clouds finally cleared and I was able to put some of the ideas/suggestions into practice. I started with the Moon and went in search of the Apollo 11 landing site. It was an easy find and I spent a few minutes looking at it. I then opened up my new observing diary and started to draw a simple sketch of the area. It really was amazing just how much more I noticed when attempting to put what I saw down on paper. Details such as contrast in brightness of individual craters, their apparent depth and even spotting smaller craters that I'd missed before. I spent at least 45 minutes on just that one area. I was using my 5mm BGO which gave great views but didn't make for easy sketching with the small FoV!

Next up was the Double Cluster. I picked this as I'd only seen it once before but it had made a big impression. I'd read that one of the clusters was thought to be older as it had more red giant stars. This gave me something to look for. Starting at 38x, with both clusters in the eyepiece, it was very easy to spot the red giants in the right cluster as I looked at it. That cluster appeared more spread out with only faint stars around it's central region. In contrast, the second cluster was more compact with two stars standing as being brighter than the rest. I stepped through magnifications of 50x, 75x and 113x, focusing on individual clusters at the higher magnifications. The second cluster had the prettier appearance with the tighter collection of bright stars. 3 small bright stars formed around one of the brightest stars. I thought of the two brightest stars as eyes, with the 3 small stars appearing as an eyebrow above one of the eyes. The red stars of the first cluster gave a nice contrast to other stars which mainly white or pale blue. Rather than sketching, I drew a basic diagram and made notes around it.

I moved onto  the Pacman nebula which I located and had just begin to try and pick out the nebulosity when the cloud rolled in. An enjoyable 2 hour session where very little time was dedicated to finding my targets. A good first step on the journey to becoming a better observer! 

[cotterless45]

Way to go ! If there's anything worth further investigation, relax at the ep and try a sketch. The way that your eye and brain work will pick out detail.

In addition a handy eyepatch will stop you screwing up your muscles and will be handy for piracy , aaaargh,

Nick.