Baader Hyperion Zoom vs 3 quality eyepieces

[Arcturus D]

Dear all,

 

this is my first post after entering the wonderful world of astronomy (6 weeks ago) and I am looking for some eyepiece advice.

 

I was gifted a Skywatcher 1145p EQ1 Newton (F:4.39; 114mm Aperture, 500mm Focal length, no motor or goto).

The telescope came with a 10mm and a 25mm eyepiece and a 2x barlow lense.

These are usable and show me a reasonable view of Jupiter at 100x.

 

I am now looking to invest in some better quality eyepieces. I know this telescope is just a starter scope, but I want to keep it for a year and familiarise myself in detail with this hobby. 

The new eyepieces need to be keepers, i.e. I want to use them on a better scope later down the line.

 

So far I have invested in a 2.5 Revelation barlow lense, which is superb and a 6mm Celestron Omni plossl just to test my near maximum magnification. On good nights the resulting 208x magnification works reasonably well. I don't want to go any higher than this.

 

I am still undecided on wide view eyepieces. 

I have manged to view a few and 68 degrees is about as much as I really want and like.

 

Now to my choices:  Desired eyepiece range,  min. 25mm, max. 6mm with a 2.5 barlow.

 

Choice 1: Baader Hyperion 8-24mm Zoom with a 2.25 Baader barlow -> Magnification range 20.83x - 140.62

I am a bit concerned if 140x is enough for Saturn and Jupiter and the fact that I won't be able to approach my scope's max magnification on good nights.

 

Choice 2: 3 quality eyepieces: my own suggestions -> happy to take any other suggestions!!!

1. Low power: Explore Scientific 68 degrees 24mm (20.83x + 52.08 x  with 2.5 barlow)

On paper this looks like the ideal low power eyepiece for my scope.

Alternative: ES Maxvision 68 degrees 24mm

 

2. Mid range: Explore Scientific 82 degrees 8.8mm  (56.81x +  142.05x  with 2.5 barlow)

I am not massively keen on the 82 degrees field, but ES do not make any 68 degree 8.8mm eyepieces.

So I am open to any new suggestions.

3. Mid range: Explore Scientific 82 degrees 6.7mm  (74.63x + 186.57x  with 2.5 barlow)

I am not massively keen on the 82 degrees field, but ES do not make any 68 degree 6.7mm eyepieces.

So I am open to any new suggestions.

4. Revelation 2x barlow: I am not sure if this matches the quality of my 2.5 x Revelation barlow, as the former is a 2 element barlow, whilst the latter has 3 elements.

 

I don't have a set budget per se, but I also don't want to spend Televue money on all of the eyepieces, especially as each eyepiece will cost more than the scope costs new. Therefore the ES eyepieces are in my desired price/value range.

 

If anybody thinks I am totally off with my choices, then please let me know and perhaps suggest something else.

 

Thanks for any help in advance

Arcturus D

 

[Alien_Photons]

I share your excitement but the best investment you can make is in time with the telescope under the skies.

Given you already have 25mm 10mm 6mm and 2x 2.5x barlows. There isnt much room for anything else other than pehaps a 32mm. So I would say cool off a bit. You have plenty already. Keep the cash and put it towards your new scope in a couple of years time.

By then you will have both used and enjoyed the scope and eyepieces you have and be in a much better position to know what to do.

[Peter Drew]

I totally agree with A-P's post.  

[Floater]

Arcturus, the above advice is sound.

There's a thread running just now titled 'Seeing v Observing', started by Neil (Littleguy80), which should be of interest to you. You would be best to spend time with what you have and learn what you like and what you don't like about the kit. Only once your eye has learned what is possible will you be able to choose what you need.

And that's all the more important if you want these EPs to be keepers.

[Arcturus D]

Thank you for the suggestions. 

But if I wanted to replace the eyepieces, what is the way to go?

 

 

[John]

The eyepieces you list cost as much as a good and more capable replacement scope which would show you a lot more than upgraded eyepieces will, if you see what I mean

 

[Ruud]

I think that for your f/4.39 telescope 24mm is better than 32mm.

24mm will have an exit pupil of 24 / 4.39 = 5.5 mm
32mm will have an exit pupil of 32 / 4,39 = 7.3 mm

You don't want an exit pupil bigger than your own pupil, so 7.3 mm is just a bit too wide. Also, sky brightness will become pretty obvious with exit pupils much larger than 5 mm. Additionally, a 24 mm 68° wide field and a 32 mm 50° plössl will both show the maximum amount of sky that you can see in a 1.25" focuser.

I'm not very fond of zoom eyepieces. Your 3 fixed focal length choices seem quite good to me, except that I prefer just a bit more eye relief than what you get from 82° ES eyepieces.

You could also consider William Optics UWAN 82° or their clones. 

[Ricochet]

14 hours ago, Arcturus D said:

Choice 1: Baader Hyperion 8-24mm Zoom with a 2.25 Baader barlow -> Magnification range 20.83x - 140.62

I am a bit concerned if 140x is enough for Saturn and Jupiter and the fact that I won't be able to approach my scope's max magnification on good nights.

The advertised "maximum magnification" really only applies to the splitting of double stars. With decreasing exit pupil (increasing magnification) diffraction rapidly increases and blurs the view. The optimum exit pupil for planetary viewing is supposedly in the 0.85-1.0mm exit pupil range, which for your scope is 114-134x and covered by the zoom+barlow combination. I know someone with the 1145p and far as I know his planetary viewing with it is always done with either a 4 or 5mm eyepiece. The field of view at the low power/high focal length end of a zoom is quite small so rather than planning on getting just the zoom you would probably be better off planning the zoom plus a low power eyepiece.

14 hours ago, Arcturus D said:

1. Low power: Explore Scientific 68 degrees 24mm (20.83x + 52.08 x  with 2.5 barlow)

On paper this looks like the ideal low power eyepiece for my scope.

Alternative: ES Maxvision 68 degrees 24mm

I used to own the 24mm ES68 and have used it in the 1145p. It makes a great finder eyepiece but at only 21x it is not going to be the best option for observing anything but the largest DSOs. I found that the roll up eyecup was not quite high enough for my liking. With a barlow the eye relief is pushed out even more and so you have to "hover" over the eyepiece. Personally, I would suggest not using this eyepiece with a barlow. The Maxvision variant is the same optically, and has a twist up eyecup that can be adjusted to the correct height, however it is not waterproof.

If it was me I would probably look at something like:

1. Planetary eyepiece, 4-5mm (Could be zoom + barlow, or something like a Vixen SLV if you want a fixed eyepiece and like 50° AFoV, BST Starguider/Celestron X-Cel LX if you prefer 60°)
2. DSO eyepiece, 9-11mm (Could be zoom, SLV or decent Plossl to replace existing 10mm)
3. Finder eyepiece (Could be 24mm ES68/Maxvision or even just your existing 25mm if you are happy with the FoV)

[Alien_Photons]

14 hours ago, Arcturus D said:

Thank you for the suggestions. 

But if I wanted to replace the eyepieces, what is the way to go?

 

 

Read up on the things you would like to observe. Find out about their size and surface brightness. Work out by observing how bright your skies are this depends on were you live. These two bits of information will help you settle on a field of view and magnification. Start up a spreadsheet with the properties of your scope and eyepieces. Get the sheet to calculate the FOV and magnification and you should be able to work out what YOU need for your skies and targets. You can do this also for a scope you might want in the future.

Then you can decide on some of the other properties of the eyepieces in relation to price.

You might for example choose one very good eyepiece and invest less in others. 

Remember this choice might not be the best choice for your next telescope. Find out how well it works with your scope by posting questions in the forums you might find someone has the same scope and eyepiece. Matching scopes and eyepieces is not always straightforward.

Also consider second hand this might take you longer to pick up what you need but might let you invest in that one special eyepiece. This might be the eyepiece you keep for a long time if you choose well.

Good luck.

[Arcturus D]

22 hours ago, Alien_Photons said:

Read up on the things you would like to observe. Find out about their size and surface brightness. Work out by observing how bright your skies are this depends on were you live. These two bits of information will help you settle on a field of view and magnification. Start up a spreadsheet with the properties of your scope and eyepieces. Get the sheet to calculate the FOV and magnification and you should be able to work out what YOU need for your skies and targets. You can do this also for a scope you might want in the future.

Then you can decide on some of the other properties of the eyepieces in relation to price.

You might for example choose one very good eyepiece and invest less in others. 

Remember this choice might not be the best choice for your next telescope. Find out how well it works with your scope by posting questions in the forums you might find someone has the same scope and eyepiece. Matching scopes and eyepieces is not always straightforward.

Also consider second hand this might take you longer to pick up what you need but might let you invest in that one special eyepiece. This might be the eyepiece you keep for a long time if you choose well.

Good luck.

Thank you for this excellent piece of advice.

[Arcturus D]

On 6/21/2017 at 23:36, Ruud said:

I think that for your f/4.39 telescope 24mm is better than 32mm.

24mm will have an exit pupil of 24 / 4.39 = 5.5 mm
32mm will have an exit pupil of 32 / 4,39 = 7.3 mm

You don't want an exit pupil bigger than your own pupil, so 7.3 mm is just a bit too wide. Also, sky brightness will become pretty obvious with exit pupils much larger than 5 mm. Additionally, a 24 mm 68° wide field and a 32 mm 50° plössl will both show the maximum amount of sky that you can see in a 1.25" focuser.

I'm not very fond of zoom eyepieces. Your 3 fixed focal length choices seem quite good to me, except that I prefer just a bit more eye relief than what you get from 82° ES eyepieces.

You could also consider William Optics UWAN 82° or their clones. 

I agree about the exit pupil, which is why I have capped my search at 25mm at the low end :-)

[Arcturus D]

I ended up getting an Explore Scientific 82° 8.8mm for DSOs (2.5 x barlowed for planetary viewing) and a Maxvision 20mm as a finder eyepiece and am very happy.

[TheLookingGlass]

@ F/4.39 the 8.8mm and 6.7mm ES 82's edge correction will be good, but eye relief is limited on these eyepieces. The Baader Zoom will be even worse for edge correction. I tried the Baader zoom in my 10" F/4.7 and the edges were not good, but if you don't mind soft edges, it is nice to dial in with the zoom.

For good overall correction in a fast telescope I will suggest Pentax XW's, (except for the 20mm and 14mm),TV Delos, (except for the 17.3mm). Both the XW's and Delos have excellent eye relief as well. If you are on a budget and can't afford to spend this much on EP's, The Orion Ultrascopics, Celestron Ultimas, etc are a great buy used and have fairly nice correction, but shorter eye relief.

Vixen LVW's are the best out there for edge correction in a fast scope without a coma corrector. All of them can be found on the used market for a great price. 65 degrees and nice long eye relief. Very easy to use. No blackouts or kidney beaning...super easy to take in the views.

Some of the Olivon EP's are nice too. (22mm Olivon is the best of them all in a fast scope).

[Arcturus D]

On 6/23/2017 at 10:14, Arcturus D said:

I agree about the exit pupil, which is why I have capped my search at 25mm at the low end :-)

 

On 6/21/2017 at 23:36, Ruud said:

I think that for your f/4.39 telescope 24mm is better than 32mm.

24mm will have an exit pupil of 24 / 4.39 = 5.5 mm
32mm will have an exit pupil of 32 / 4,39 = 7.3 mm

You don't want an exit pupil bigger than your own pupil, so 7.3 mm is just a bit too wide. Also, sky brightness will become pretty obvious with exit pupils much larger than 5 mm. Additionally, a 24 mm 68° wide field and a 32 mm 50° plössl will both show the maximum amount of sky that you can see in a 1.25" focuser.

I'm not very fond of zoom eyepieces. Your 3 fixed focal length choices seem quite good to me, except that I prefer just a bit more eye relief than what you get from 82° ES eyepieces.

You could also consider William Optics UWAN 82° or their clones. 

I settled on the Maxxvision 20mm eyepiece, which gives me a nice 2.7 degree of view.