Scope tracking just drops out randomly - Sitech/Mesu/SGP

[gnomus]

Let me have a look at my screens Steve, it will take a little while to get back to you.

[PhotoGav]

6 minutes ago, kirkster501 said:

How to do that Gav please?

I gotta entertain a little one shortly so can have a look later.

This sounds like a possible IT problem like I discussed in another thread.

I'll fire up my system in a bit and check. I'll post some screen grabs. Have fun with the little one!

[gnomus]

Just now, kirkster501 said:

Yes I did Steve, no difference at all to what i was doing.  After I hit the Meridean, after that it all went pear shaped.....

Yes.  I don't mean to keep banging on about my theory but if I am correct that would fit - since PHD would be making the wrong corrections.

[kirkster501]

Just now, gnomus said:

M51 would have been past the meridian, M57 crossed quite late on was it also on the West?

That is true Steve and you have got me thinking, am I perhaps ticking the in correct East or West?  Maybe.  And that would maybe explain the theory about PHD being all confused...

[kirkster501]

Thanks so much guys, you are superstars.  I gotta go now too and play paddling pools in the fine weather....

[kirkster501]

5 minutes ago, gnomus said:

Yes.  I don't mean to keep banging on about my theory but if I am correct that would fit - since PHD would be making the wrong corrections.

... and that would also explain why I had a pier crash last night nearly, with the scope thinking it was on the other side of the pier.......

[gnomus]

I have already found a few issues Steve - but I want to make sure I catch them all - I am now fairly certain this is a meridian issue.

[pete_l]

1 hour ago, kirkster501 said:

 

 

I cannot understand what could cause the mount to stop or change speed after just doingh 2 x 10 min subs!   Here are my SGP settings:

 

Looking at the angle at which the RA guiding (blue line) takes off, it looks to me to be the same in both cases. Would that be the angle you get when tracking stops OR IS BEING  STOPPED?

I doubt that there's an underlying software issue or config problem. I would look for physical causes first. A cable snagging, a connector that is loose and intermittent.

[ollypenrice]

Something else to remember is that you might have more than one problem. This is an old one in diagnosing malfunctions. If most of the problems seem to have a meridian connection and one doesn't, don't deduce from this that it isn't the meridian. The exception might have been caused by something else. As Pete suggests above, a mechanical issue might have arisen at some point. Personally I do think this is a SiTech/guiding/meridian problem but you might have had something else going on sometimes as well. We lost a sub last night on number two Mesu, but it will just have been a bump or snag.

Olly

[PhotoGav]

Here is an extract from the PHD2 manual about Manual Guiding. It talks about listening to the mount, which is possible, but I found that looking at the EQMod screen and monitoring the RA and DEC values worked. It is obvious that one of the values is moving (or not) when you click a guide direction. Not sure what screen that is with your lovely mount, but I'm sure you have an equivalent that you can monitor. Good luck with this - Gremlins really are very trying...

 

[gnomus]

OK.  I think I have found the main issue.  Look at your Sitech tab compared with mine:

The most important thing is that the box marked 'A' should not be ticked.  PHD already knows to reverse  the direction of its corrections after a flip, so having this checked puts things back to square one.  Once past the meridian, PHD will decide a correction is needed, but the correction actually drives the mount even further away from the guide star.  Your line will have a falling-off-a-cliff appearance.  

Note also from this image, that your Over and Under Pole settings are a bit unusual.  In particular, your Meridian Limit West settingas are both negative numbers.  Unless you have some unusual local condition then you should change that.  If you make the first number '-01:00:00' positive that should do.  My settings here and in SGP are set up to allow for the mount to track more than 30 minutes past the meridian before flipping.  It would be frustrating to have a flip happening 29 minutes into a 30 minute exposure.  Copy them if you like at your own risk, but be sure that your kit can go to these limits without a strike.   These work for me - I don't want you to have a collision.

The other thing I noticed was:

In your FOV calculator I think you should have the details for your imaging camera.  I don't think this would make any significant difference though.

Your PHD tabs look like mine except for guide camera detals.  I have MinMo set much lower than you, but this is probably a result of the guide camera I use.

If all this fixes everything, then it is really very easy to get the automated Meridian flip working in SGP.  (If my 'over and under pole' settings work for you, you can just copy what I have in SGP - a couple of tickboxes and a number will do it).  First things first though.  Its forecast clear for tonight.......

I see also a 'Comm(): Missing' message.  Mine shows its Com port even when powered down so I don't know what this could be. 

Steve 

PS: You can see that you don't have the latest version of Sitech - in fact neither do I - but once again I don't think this is the issue.  Its that one tick box.   

[pietervdv]

Hi Steve,

 

I am using exactly the same configuration as you: SiTech Mesu200 / SGP.

Been having exactly the same issue as you describe, the tracking sometimes just shuts off randomly. The SiTech control panel shows the mount at "stopped" and I need to press "tracking" to get it going again.

I had the last 2 sessions ruined because of this issue. Verrry annoying! I am still very impressed with the mechanical part of the Mesu, just wish a similar robust

controller would be offered in the package. All my imaging this time of year is in the east, no not related the mount filps in my case.

 

I did have the Sync issues with the internal clock a while back, but the latest SiTech software seemed to cure that, untill now. I will start the logging in the SiTech menu

to record the errors more in detail. I would suggest you do the same, because possibly we are looking at another software bug.

 

regards,

Pieter

[gnomus]

Incidentally, I think this setting is covered in the superb setup guide prepared by @steppenwolf.  However, it is easy to miss.  (Maybe I missed it - but I'm not letting on ) 

My main regret is that this is just giving more ammunition to the Ollysaurus who will tell us how much easier it all is doing things manually in ArgoNavis.  One day I will video him, full of malt whisky, stumbling around in the dark trying to fix various things.  With the automated approach you can significantly increase the exposure time to malt whisky without the need to stand up at all.  

[kirkster501]

Thanks so much Steve, I will take a look later.

There are definitely no cable snag or physical problems.  The wires and leads are loomed in nicely and do not catch no matter what.  The whole thing physically is as solid as the Rock of Gibraltar, thee is no flexture whatsoever.  You could dock the Queen Mary against it....

I am buying a pier PC with 10 USB2 ports i3 PC in mid week from a mate for £100.  I will then remove USB hubs from the equation will remote desktop into that machine to control the rig moving forward. £100 for a PC is pittance compared to the scopes and cameras.

[gnomus]

Just now, kirkster501 said:

Thanks so much Steve, I will take a look later.

There are definitely no cable snag or physical problems.  The wires and leads are loomed in nicely and do not catch no matter what.  The whole thing physically is as solid as the Rock of Gibraltar, thee is no flexture whatsoever.  You could dock the Queen Mary against it....

I am buying a pier PC with 10 USB2 ports i3 PC in mid week from a mate for £100.  I will then remove USB hubs from the equation will remote desktop into that machine to control the rig moving forward. £100 for a PC is pittance compared to the scopes and cameras.

I could not agree more about USB hubs - I forget how many we have had fail on us.  We ended up buying a USB-Ethernet adapter.  Everything has been rock solid since then. 

[kirkster501]

7 minutes ago, pietervdv said:

Hi Steve,

 

I am using exactly the same configuration as you: SiTech Mesu200 / SGP.

Been having exactly the same issue as you describe, the tracking sometimes just shuts off randomly. The SiTech control panel shows the mount at "stopped" and I need to press "tracking" to get it going again.

I had the last 2 sessions ruined because of this issue. Verrry annoying! I am still very impressed with the mechanical part of the Mesu, just wish a similar robust

controller would be offered in the package. All my imaging this time of year is in the east, no not related the mount filps in my case.

 

I did have the Sync issues with the internal clock a while back, but the latest SiTech software seemed to cure that, untill now. I will start the logging in the SiTech menu

to record the errors more in detail. I would suggest you do the same, because possibly we are looking at another software bug.

 

regards,

Pieter

Thankyou for your input Pieter.  That is worrying that you too have seen this issue.

In my case, sometimes I cannot even press the "start" button again on the Sitech window.....  The Sitech control window just ignores the key press...  I can only get it back my slewing away then plate solving etc again. It is most incredibly annoying

[gnomus]

1 minute ago, kirkster501 said:

Thankyou for your input Pieter.  That is worrying that you too have seen this issue.

In my case, sometimes I cannot even press the "start" button again on the Sitech window.....  The Sitech control window just ignores the key press...  I can only get it back my slewing away then plate solving etc again. It is most incredibly annoying

I added this comment via an Edit to my long post - so you might have missed it...  

I see also a 'Comm(): Missing' message.  Mine shows its Com port even when powered down so I don't know what this could be. 

This could be a USB hub issue (maybe it comes on and off, and this corresponds with the times that you don't seem able to get it moving again).  The Sitech thing is still incorrect though.  If it happens again when you are connected I would take a quick look at that Sitech Tab to make sure that it shows a Com port.  

[kirkster501]

.. and also (sorry for going on), tihs may explain why I have been cursing SGP so much when the issues could have been in the underlying configurations.  SGP does have its issues for sure but I do not lay the blame for everything at its door.

So another question.  In this Sitech/SGP/Mesu setup and plate solve, you have to always be aware if the subject you want to image is before or past the Meridean?   And when doing pate solve to tell the mount (correctly!) where it is pointing East to West wrt the pier?  I confess, I have never paid attention to this before in my previous rig with of NEQ6/EQMod.

[kirkster501]

6 minutes ago, gnomus said:

I added this comment via an Edit to my long post - so you might have missed it...  

I see also a 'Comm(): Missing' message.  Mine shows its Com port even when powered down so I don't know what this could be. 

This could be a USB hub issue (maybe it comes on and off, and this corresponds with the times that you don't seem able to get it moving again).  The Sitech thing is still incorrect though.  If it happens again when you are connected I would take a quick look at that Sitech Tab to make sure that it shows a Com port.  

So Steve/Pieter, you are theorizing that the com port is maybe dropped during the imaging run?

Steve, there is no com port in my previous screenshot because the mouut was powered off.  I just showed you the config of the Sitec SW....

 

EDIT: definitely the USB hub will be removed from the equation in mid week.  I can't do so this evening if its clear.

[kirkster501]

2 hours ago, gnomus said:

I cannot see any times on your screenshot Steve, but according to my Sky Safari, M13 crossed the Meridian at ~12:07AM.  My nautical dark started around midinight.  I see that you don't have Meridian flip set in SGP.  Are you certain you were well past the meridian? 

I tend not to use Meridean Flip Steve because I have found it NEVER works on my rig and just freezes.  Maybe this is down to misconfiguration on my part....

[steppenwolf]

2 hours ago, gnomus said:

In your FOV calculator I think you should have the details for your imaging camera.  I don't think this would make any significant difference though.

The settings in my FOV section only reflect one of my telescopes - I don't have any issue when using my second instrument which has over double the focal length so I don't think this is contributing to the issue.

However, I can confirm that Reverse RA Guide Mode when Looking East (RA) should be unticked.

[gnomus]

1 hour ago, kirkster501 said:

.. and also (sorry for going on), tihs may explain why I have been cursing SGP so much when the issues could have been in the underlying configurations.  SGP does have its issues for sure but I do not lay the blame for everything at its door.

So another question.  In this Sitech/SGP/Mesu setup and plate solve, you have to always be aware if the subject you want to image is before or past the Meridean?   And when doing pate solve to tell the mount (correctly!) where it is pointing East to West wrt the pier?  I confess, I have never paid attention to this before in my previous rig with of NEQ6/EQMod.

I don't think about whether or not the image is before or past the meridian, although most things will probably be before.  Plate solve just works.  Indeed, I just start a sequence by pressing 'Run'.  The scope slews to target, plate solves to centre, starts up PHD, focusses and then starts.  I don't need to do anything.

With meridian flip enabled, I need to do even less.  So long as your cameras are orthogonal, it all works wonderfully.  I see no reason not to make use of it.

[gnomus]

3 hours ago, kirkster501 said:

So Steve/Pieter, you are theorizing that the com port is maybe dropped during the imaging run? ....

No.  I am telling you (now confirmed by @steppenwolf - the guy who wrote the set up manual) that you have Sitech set up incorrectly, and that that alone may explain many, if not all, of your issues.  I'd fix the thing that is definitely wrong before speculating on whether or not there might be other problems.  There may or may not be other issues - we simply cannot tell whilst things are set up incorrectly.

[steppenwolf]

37 minutes ago, steppenwolf said:

The settings in my FOV section only reflect one of my telescopes - I don't have any issue when using my second instrument which has over double the focal length so I don't think this is contributing to the issue.

I should add here that this section is, to the best of my knowledge, used for sky model building or other scripting purposes, not for general operations.

[kirkster501]

I modded my Sitech values to match yours Steve (gnomus).  Also I see you are on a later Sitech SW to me as well - 91Zb and I am on 91T.  Did you ever update the firmware on the mount to v9.5?  I do not want to go there if I can avoid doing so.  Updating FW is always fraught with dangers unless it is absolutely essential so I am not doing that just yet.  I have bricked several pieces of computer stuff over the years performing unnecessary FW updates...

Here is my SGP scope config now that I have set it to Merideran flip.