Imaging w/ SW 150p EQ3-2

[Woolnut]

Hey SGL,

I have been wanting to get into imaging and have recently purchased a used converted webcam to use with the scope, at the moment i don't have GoTo but i am going to look at getting the upgrade kit for around £300 but naturally i am a little hesitant as i don't think I have taken everything into account! Currently i have:

Current Kit

- SW 150p w/ EQ3-2

- 2x Barlow

- Various EP's

- Webcam (arriving soon)

Looking to Purchase

- EQ3-2 GoTo Upgrade Kit

- Some sort of power supply to work with the GoTo

Other than a laptop are there any other bits of kit i will need for a basic imaging rig that i haven't thought of?

Thanks

 

[Chris]

Hi, a cheaper option to the goto upgrade kit is to buy the enhaunced dual axis drive kit and use your laptop to control the mount. That's about as far as my knowledge extends on the subject, but I'm sure someone can elaborate on the free software and other gadgets needed to do this  

 

[Chris]

I've dug out this write up by an old forum friend regarding imaging with the EQ3:

It's a few years old now, one immediate advantage now days is that you can buy an enhaunced Dual axis drive kit with built in ST4 port, so no handset modding required now days  

 

[Woolnut]

1 hour ago, Lockie said:

I've dug out this write up by an old forum friend regarding imaging with the EQ3:

It's a few years old now, one immediate advantage now days is that you can buy an enhaunced Dual axis drive kit with built in ST4 port, so no handset modding required now days  

 

Thanks for digging this out, will give it a read! I intend to control the mount with my laptop whilst imaging but would like the option to use the GoTo controller when not imaging just for general browsing of the sky... Is this something achievable with the GoTo system or can i not have the best of both worlds!

[Chris]

22 minutes ago, Woolnut said:

Thanks for digging this out, will give it a read! I intend to control the mount with my laptop whilst imaging but would like the option to use the GoTo controller when not imaging just for general browsing of the sky... Is this something achievable with the GoTo system or can i not have the best of both worlds!

Hi, I'm not sure but if you want a fully functional handset plus control via a PC, my gut feeling is that you'll need to do the full goto upgrade and then use something like an EQmod cable perhaps to connect to a laptop?  

Hopefully someone fully versed in this will chime in  

[Chris]

There's this cable which allows you to control an EQ5 pro (or EQ5 with goto upgrade) from a laptop....not sure if it would be ok with the EQ3 but I can't see why not?

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/lynx-astro-ftdi-eqdir-usb-adapter-for-sky-watcher-eq5-pro-heq5-syntrek-pro-az-eq5-gt-az-eq6-gt-and-eq8-mounts.html

[TareqPhoto]

1 hour ago, Lockie said:

There's this cable which allows you to control an EQ5 pro (or EQ5 with goto upgrade) from a laptop....not sure if it would be ok with the EQ3 but I can't see why not?

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/lynx-astro-ftdi-eqdir-usb-adapter-for-sky-watcher-eq5-pro-heq5-syntrek-pro-az-eq5-gt-az-eq6-gt-and-eq8-mounts.html

I ordered this cable to give it a try on my mount, but my order just processed today or yesterday late night so i have to wait about 5 days or so, and i am using AZ-EQ6 not EQ3, but if the EQ3 has same port then it should work fine.

[Woolnut]

Just now, TareqPhoto said:

I ordered this cable to give it a try on my mount, but my order just processed today or yesterday late night so i have to wait about 5 days or so, and i am using AZ-EQ6 not EQ3, but if the EQ3 has same port then it should work fine.

the EQ3-2 Mount i have doesn't have an ST4 port built in unfortunately (non GoTo version anyway) I would use the cable in partnership with either GoTo or the dual axis motor kit that has the ST4 port... Let me know how it goes regardless, would be handy to know!

[TareqPhoto]

Oh i see, then tell me what ports do you have?

Can you take a good image for your mount from the side where the ports are? i want to know so i may try to find something for you if available and possible.

[Woolnut]

2 minutes ago, TareqPhoto said:

Oh i see, then tell me what ports do you have?

Can you take a good image for your mount from the side where the ports are? i want to know so i may try to find something for you if available and possible.

The EQ3-2 mount i have is completely "dumb" in that sense at the moment, unless i retrofit the motors to the mount everything is manual; which is why i am looking at the GoTo upgrade or dual axis motor upgrade.

There are no ports on the mount at all currently. Just some manual control "rods"  

[Chris]

5 minutes ago, TareqPhoto said:

Oh i see, then tell me what ports do you have?

Can you take a good image for your mount from the side where the ports are? i want to know so i may try to find something for you if available and possible.

Hi Tareq, the EQ3 is a manual equatorial mount with no ports as standard. It can be used with slow motion controls, or upgraded with an enhaunced drive kit which includes an ST4 port, or it can also be fully upgraded to goto with a goto upgrade kit. 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-eq3-2-deluxe.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/enhanced-dual-axis-dc-motor-drive-for-eq3-2.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/synscan-pro-goto-version-3-upgrade-kit-for-eq3-2.html

[TareqPhoto]

I see, then better buy another mount goto and keep this EQ just for show.

I started very recent and even with that and limited budget i didn't think less than EQ6 mounts, so even EQ5 was out of my mind as starting, and i am not rich or lucky to have big budget, but i always try to pay once than paying more than once, and i can wait to save money, good that i didn't go with something cheap non motorized mounts.

[Chris]

11 minutes ago, TareqPhoto said:

I see, then better buy another mount goto and keep this EQ just for show.

I started very recent and even with that and limited budget i didn't think less than EQ6 mounts, so even EQ5 was out of my mind as starting, and i am not rich or lucky to have big budget, but i always try to pay once than paying more than once, and i can wait to save money, good that i didn't go with something cheap non motorized mounts.

I've owned and used many mounts from EQ3's to NEQ6's over the years, and there isn't anything wrong with using an EQ3 with basic motor drives for imaging as long as you're sensible with focal length. For example the EQ3 makes a great grab and go imager with a 200mm lens. 

To be honest with CMOS sensors catching on for DSO imaging how they are, I personally think the need for guiding will soon be a diminished...well unless using a very long focal length scope. With the new CMOS sensors you take a large number of short exposures for stacking, so very similar to planetary imaging.

[Woolnut]

10 minutes ago, TareqPhoto said:

I see, then better buy another mount goto and keep this EQ just for show.

I started very recent and even with that and limited budget i didn't think less than EQ6 mounts, so even EQ5 was out of my mind as starting, and i am not rich or lucky to have big budget, but i always try to pay once than paying more than once, and i can wait to save money, good that i didn't go with something cheap non motorized mounts.

Well the mount and OTA were a 21st Birthday present so i wont be complaining about them, if i had the desire to sink 4 figures into a mount i would, but currently i have no need to and the EQ3 will suit my needs for the time being. If i decide i need a bigger, higher specification mount i will purchase one

 

3 minutes ago, Lockie said:

I've owned and used many mounts from EQ3's to NEQ6's over the years, and there isn't anything wrong with using an EQ3 with basic motor drives for imaging as long as you're sensible about with focal length. For example the EQ3 makes a great grab and go imager with a 200mm lens. 

To be honest with CMOS sensors catching on for DSO imaging how are they are, I personally think the need for guiding will soon be a diminished...well unless using a very long focal length scope. With the new CMOS sensors you take a large number of short exposures for stacking, so very similar to planetary imaging.

This reminds me... If i am honest i haven't looked into what limitations i have with my current OTA... I should definitely take a look at this in more detail to help weigh up my decision! But you are right about the whole grab and go aspect of the EQ3, i am able to pick it up from my bedroom, down the stairs and into the garden without any real effort!

[TareqPhoto]

6 minutes ago, Lockie said:

I've owned and used many mounts from EQ3's to NEQ6's over the years, and there isn't anything wrong with using an EQ3 with basic motor drives for imaging as long as you're sensible with focal length. For example the EQ3 makes a great grab and go imager with a 200mm lens. 

To be honest with CMOS sensors catching on for DSO imaging how they are, I personally think the need for guiding will soon be a diminished...well unless using a very long focal length scope. With the new CMOS sensors you take a large number of short exposures for stacking, so very similar to planetary imaging.

I may think for that EQ3 only to use my DSLR with one of lenses, as a portable option, don't know why there isn't EQ4 that can be in the middle and more affordable for grab and go with goto capable drive, EQ5 isn't very cheap, and because of that i just went with EQ6 instead, but if i want portable i won't go with EQ5 as well, but EQ3 isn't an option unless i buy that version which has goto attached already.

[TareqPhoto]

1 minute ago, Woolnut said:

Well the mount and OTA were a 21st Birthday present so i wont be complaining about them, if i had the desire to sink 4 figures into a mount i would, but currently i have no need to and the EQ3 will suit my needs for the time being. If i decide i need a bigger, higher specification mount i will purchase one

 

This reminds me... If i am honest i haven't looked into what limitations i have with my current OTA... I should definitely take a look at this in more detail to help weigh up my decision! But you are right about the whole grab and go aspect of the EQ3, i am able to pick it up from my bedroom, down the stairs and into the garden without any real effort!

Maybe i will think of this option if i am using very lightweight gear, my ST80 is lightweight that i feel it is not a real scope at all, even if i use my camera Sony A7r it is still lightweight, but i was thinking of another goto lightweight option.

As a present definitely no complain, but the complain will come later once you grow, i didn't know it was a present, if so then i won't post here, but i replied here for the cable only and it went further, enjoy it.

[Chris]

11 minutes ago, Woolnut said:

This reminds me... If i am honest i haven't looked into what limitations i have with my current OTA

Hi, the 150p is a wonderful scope if you ask me. Apart from it being a good size, i.e. a reasonable amount of aperture for visual and planetary imaging, yet still relatively compact and light. It's focal ratio of f/5 makes it 'fast' for DSO imaging, without it being overly fast to cause to many issues with collimation and coma. The focal length of 750mm is also a great compromise, enabling some image scale on smaller targets like M51, yet wide enough to fit the entire Rosette nebula in the frame when DLSR imaging. No chromatic aberration with a reflector, that's a big plus for imaging.

If it's the later black diamond livery 150p there shouldn't be any issues with reaching focus with a DLSR. With the older light blue tube version you needed to move the primary mirror slightly further up the tube to reach focus, this could be achieved by using longer collimation screws. There is the newer PDS range which adds a dual speed focuser and a slightly shorter tube to make DSO imaging a bit more convenient, but I never had any complaints regarding my standard black diamond 150p and imaging

You will hit limitations with the 150p on the EQ3, 750mm focal length might be pushing things with such a light mount, but I know many that have produced surprisingly good images with a basic EQ3, even if it meant a little 'fettling' (regreasing the mount, reducing backlash in the gears, filling the ali legs with sand, and imaging in a sheltered location so the wind doesn't catch the OTA etc).

I no longer have my observatrory with NEQ6 and bunch of different focal length scopes (including 130pds, and a 150p) and various cameras etc. The house move and having a bunch of kids put pay to that, and 95% of my imaging too! But I do now have a Celestron 150p on an EQ3 with enhaunced motor kit which I'll happily try and do some CMOS imaging with given half the chance......I think you could have been gifted a much worse setup for your purpose, enjoy    

[Woolnut]

12 minutes ago, Lockie said:

Hi, the 150p is a wonderful scope if you ask me. Apart from it being a good size, i.e. a reasonable amount of aperture for visual and planetary imaging, yet still relatively compact and light. It's focal ratio of f/5 makes it 'fast' for DSO imaging, without it being overly fast to cause to many issues with collimation and coma. The focal length of 750mm is also a great compromise, enabling some image scale on smaller targets like M51, yet wide enough to fit the entire Rosette nebula in the frame when DLSR imaging. No chromatic aberration with a reflector, that's a big plus for imaging.

If it's the later black diamond livery 150p there shouldn't be any issues with reaching focus with a DLSR. With the older light blue tube version you needed to move the primary mirror slightly further up the tube to reach focus, this could be achieved by using longer collimation screws. There is the newer PDS range which adds a dual speed focuser and a slightly shorter tube to make DSO imaging a bit more convenient, but I never had any complaints regarding my standard black diamond 150p and imaging

You will hit limitations with the 150p on the EQ3, 750mm focal length might be pushing things with such a light mount, but I know many that have produced surprisingly good images with a basic EQ3, even if it meant a little 'fettling' (regreasing the mount, reducing backlash in the gears, filling the ali legs with sand, and imaging in a sheltered location so the wind doesn't catch the OTA etc).

I no longer have my observatrory with NEQ6 and bunch of different focal length scopes (including 130pds, and a 150p) and various cameras etc. The house move and having a bunch of kids put pay to that, and 95% of my imaging too! But I do now have a Celestron 150p on an EQ3 with enhaunced motor kit which I'll happily try and do some CMOS imaging with given half the chance......I think you could have been gifted a much worse setup for your purpose, enjoy    

Thanks for the insight, it is indeed the later black diamond one! I have been pretty impressed with the performance of the OTA so far, with a 2x Barlow and a 6mm EP i have been able to look at Jupiter and get enough detail to see the NEB and SEB but nothing more, other than Jupiter and the Moon i haven't really looked at much, which is why the GoTo system appeals to me. I am not an expert on the sky therefore a bit of computerised help wouldn't harm

I have read in a few places that people have tweaked their EQ3 mounts with some of what you have mentioned, i am open to doing that sort of thing but i am also scared that i will break something / forget how to put it back together! Will be spending some time at work tomorrow furthering my research to see what works for me!

[bobro]

To get back to your initial question - other things required :

Camera

Camera adapter for scope

Guide scope

PC software for guiding and planaterium - free

Hardware interface from PC to scope for guiding and planetarium goto - depends on interface e.g. ST4 for guiding only or serial for full functionality.

Interesting that a goto upgrade for an EQ3 is approx £300 yet a full synscan EQ3 is currently £399.

If you don't find answers in this thread another thread dedicated to EQ3 imaging will surely respond to your questions : https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/279039-the-eq3-dso-challenge/

 

[Woolnut]

8 hours ago, bobro said:

To get back to your initial question - other things required :

Camera

Camera adapter for scope

Guide scope

PC software for guiding and planaterium - free

Hardware interface from PC to scope for guiding and planetarium goto - depends on interface e.g. ST4 for guiding only or serial for full functionality.

Interesting that a goto upgrade for an EQ3 is approx £300 yet a full synscan EQ3 is currently £399.

If you don't find answers in this thread another thread dedicated to EQ3 imaging will surely respond to your questions : https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/279039-the-eq3-dso-challenge/

 

Thanks Bobro this information is useful, i hadn't considered the difference in interface

I have messaged Tring Astro to see if they could do something with my lightly used EQ3-2 Manual as it doesn't make much sense to spend £300 on an upgrade kit when a new mount + GoTo is £100 more!

I will be using a converted webcam as my camera for the time being and i have been looking at ways to turn my SW finderscope into a guider, using once again a webcam (trying to get this done cheaply to learn before upgrading in time to better equipment)

[Chris]

1 hour ago, Woolnut said:

I have messaged Tring Astro to see if they could do something with my lightly used EQ3-2 Manual as it doesn't make much sense to spend £300 on an upgrade kit when a new mount + GoTo is £100 more!

I will be using a converted webcam as my camera for the time being and i have been looking at ways to turn my SW finderscope into a guider, using once again a webcam (trying to get this done cheaply to learn before upgrading in time to better equipment)

The poor value for money of the upgrade kit is why I initially suggested pc control via the enhaunced dual drive kit, as this is only £119. 

As you want the hand control it's a good suggestion to sell your existing EQ3 and buy the EQ3 pro, or even look out for a second hand EQ5 Pro or a CG5 GT for about the same price as a new EQ3 pro. The only thing against this is you might only get £100-120 for your mount for sale, and probably less for trade in?

Many of us buy and sell kit here:

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/

There is also a buy and sell section here on SGL, I often advertise on both to increase my odds of a sale.

 

I'm not sure converting a webcam will be sensitive enough for guiding, people on a budget tend to try this approach first, then quickly move to something like a QHY5 or ASI120 for guiding when they realise the webcam just doesn't work for anything other than the very brightest of stars.

It might be worth looking into the next generation of cooled CMOS cameras, they don't need long exposures thus guiding like dlsr's and CCD's. Although DLSR's are a common place to start even unguided, you'll get 60 second exposures which is enough to get something if you stack a bunch of them in Deep Sky Stacker and then stretch the histogram.

One other bit of kit you'll need is a focus mask, you can fix many things in post processing, but if you have poor focus to begin with all you can do is throw away the subs and hope you get better focus next time around. Save yourself the pain and get a focus mask  

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bahtinov-focus-masks/starsharp-bahtinov-focus-masks.html

 

[bobro]

As Lockie mentioned, people often start out with a webcam for guiding and then move on to a dedicated guidecam - I did. Though, as my interest is low cost AP, I purchased a camera module (£37 from Amazon) that is used in guidecams and, with a bit of simple DIY (so not for everyone), turned it into a guidecam. The great thing is that, as well as being a sensitive camera supported by PHD2, it also works very well for polar alignment with SharpCap (free) - giving Polemaster type functionality for zero additional cost.

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/292376-low-cost-ar0130-guide-camera/

If you really wish to save cost, a pdf for a Bahtinov Mask can be downloaded from the Internet, allowing one to be cut out from a piece of plastic.

[Woolnut]

45 minutes ago, bobro said:

As Lockie mentioned, people often start out with a webcam for guiding and then move on to a dedicated guidecam - I did. Though, as my interest is low cost AP, I purchased a camera module (£37 from Amazon) that is used in guidecams and, with a bit of simple DIY (so not for everyone), turned it into a guidecam. The great thing is that, as well as being a sensitive camera supported by PHD2, it also works very well for polar alignment with SharpCap (free) - giving Polemaster type functionality for zero additional cost.

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/292376-low-cost-ar0130-guide-camera/

If you really wish to save cost, a pdf for a Bahtinov Mask can be downloaded from the Internet, allowing one to be cut out from a piece of plastic.

This is something i am happy to consider, i have had a quick skim read through your post and it doesn't seem to difficult to achieve. I can pick one of those USB cameras up from Amazon like you said for £37 or so!

Whilst i am not ruling out a dedicated guidecam as you have already picked up on i want to spend a reasonably low amount of money to take my manual current setup to a much more intelligent guided system, if this means i have to spend a little more money than planned fine; but i like a technical DIY challenge

[Woolnut]

2 hours ago, Lockie said:

The poor value for money of the upgrade kit is why I initially suggested pc control via the enhaunced dual drive kit, as this is only £119. 

As you want the hand control it's a good suggestion to sell your existing EQ3 and buy the EQ3 pro, or even look out for a second hand EQ5 Pro or a CG5 GT for about the same price as a new EQ3 pro. The only thing against this is you might only get £100-120 for your mount for sale, and probably less for trade in?

Many of us buy and sell kit here:

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/

There is also a buy and sell section here on SGL, I often advertise on both to increase my odds of a sale.

 

I'm not sure converting a webcam will be sensitive enough for guiding, people on a budget tend to try this approach first, then quickly move to something like a QHY5 or ASI120 for guiding when they realise the webcam just doesn't work for anything other than the very brightest of stars.

It might be worth looking into the next generation of cooled CMOS cameras, they don't need long exposures thus guiding like dlsr's and CCD's. Although DLSR's are a common place to start even unguided, you'll get 60 second exposures which is enough to get something if you stack a bunch of them in Deep Sky Stacker and then stretch the histogram.

One other bit of kit you'll need is a focus mask, you can fix many things in post processing, but if you have poor focus to begin with all you can do is throw away the subs and hope you get better focus next time around. Save yourself the pain and get a focus mask  

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bahtinov-focus-masks/starsharp-bahtinov-focus-masks.html

 

Thanks Lockie, i will take a look around and see what sort of price is realistic for my current EQ3-2, i highly doubt Tring Astro will fancy the swap + cash but i thought i would ask regardless!

As i mentioned to bobro i haven't ruled out getting hold of a proper guidecam and it seems the overall feedback has a reoccurring theme of "only works for the brightest stars"

The mask will be something i will end up getting as they do seem to help out a lot!

Lots of things to consider  

[Woolnut]

On 6/1/2017 at 11:11, Woolnut said:

Thanks Lockie, i will take a look around and see what sort of price is realistic for my current EQ3-2, i highly doubt Tring Astro will fancy the swap + cash but i thought i would ask regardless!

As i mentioned to bobro i haven't ruled out getting hold of a proper guidecam and it seems the overall feedback has a reoccurring theme of "only works for the brightest stars"

The mask will be something i will end up getting as they do seem to help out a lot!

Lots of things to consider  

So far i haven't heard back from Tring Astro which is strange, thought i would have done by now! I would talk to FLO however they are a fair few hours from me not 40 mins!  I have done some more research and it seems the more i look the more the can of worms is opening... So many opposing views from multiple sources!