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A good starter scope ready for imaging ?


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Hi,

I'm back with some more questions, nearly bought a dob but held of as I knew i wouldn't of been happy with it.  I'm looking for a scope and mount that is good starter for general viewing but I can use for astrophotography later. I recently went to a local club and had a look through a few different scopes. I was going to get a 8 or 10" dob but, one they are quite big to store and transport and I would need to collimate it so I think I would be wasting my money. I have a budget of 2k that is absolute maximum and I'm not including a camera as I'll get one later on and probably a used one. I'd prefer to spend less to start with but not waste my money having to upgrade to early. I have been looking at some of the Celestron's C8 edge, Nexstar SE and Evolution. I do quite like the Schmidt-Cassegrain designs but are these good for general viewing and astrophotography ? Or am I better of going for a refractor ? As I said I want something that I can just start viewing things with probably more interested in DSO but would like to view planets.

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Different tools are required for different jobs.  SCTs, Alt-Az mounts and Big Dobs are excellent for visual observing of DSOs.  They are less useful for imaging (or at least they make things more difficult than it needs to be).  A small refractor on an EQ mount would be great for imaging where you might be doing 10, 20, 30 minute exposures.  However, for visual work, it will not have anything like the  light gathering capacity of a large aperture scope.

You would be advised to find out as much as you can before spending any money if imaging is going to form part of your plans.  Imaging can get VERY expensive  very quickly if you are not careful - heck, it can get very expensive very quickly even if you are careful.  :icon_biggrin:

If I were you I would get a relatively inexpensive 8" Dob to satisy the natural itch for toys - this will give you lovely views of the sky.  Then spend another £20 or so on this - https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html  It will tell you most, if not all, of what you need to know.

Good luck.

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For what it's worth, I totally agree with Gnomus... Buy the Dob to satisfy your visual urges, read and read, learn and save for the right equipment for AP, so you will have a great time with that as well. Your future mount will be the most important and the most expensive piece of equipment you need for AP.
It cannot be too good, only not good enough...

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You should be looking at telescopes built for Astrophotography, ED (Extra low Dispersion), Triple APO, Quad APO...

You can do visual with a photographically adapted telescope. But trying to do Astrophotography with a telescope not built for the task is an exercise in frustrations and wasted monies.

>Here is why...<  Follow the link and see how an APO brings the spectrum to the cameras sensor (or your eye).

Most of the enviable Astrophotographs are done with Refractor type telescopes. Why is that? Because a Refracting telescope is more like a cameras lens.

So think along those lines. If you want to do Astrophotography sooner or later, don't waste your money on visual telescopes. Buy once, cry once. Buy wrong, cry all night long. :wink:

I have friends who think this Quad APO is the best telescope they have ever used for Astrophotography.  I use a Triplet 80 mm. Where I lack is my camera, it stinks!

And don't buy into the mount myth. While the big mounts have their advantages, I have friends who come to me for guiding tips. Guiding is a matter of getting the best out of what you've got. It doesn't take a 5,000 dollar/pound mount to run a good Astrophotography refractor. What it takes is patience and time getting the most from your mount.

START HERE with Forrest Tanaka

And welcome to real challenge. :shocked::cussing::hello2:

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Thanks for the YouTube link just spent the evening watching through his videos.

I have ordered a couple of books, Turn Left at Orion Book and Making Every Photon Count. What I thought I'd learnt is refractors are better for planetary ? Reflector is going to give me the best size for money and has a lower focal length (faster) so better for dso ? but need to get one suited for astrophotography ? Schmidt Cassegrain will normally have a higher focal length even though they are very short. Can do both visual and astrophotography with one scope.

Mount wise I know I need/want a equatorial with goto, been looking at the Heq5 Pro or EQ5 Pro.

I don't really want to spend £300 on a dob when that's money towards something I really want.

I am edging towards a refractor but it's dso I'm interested in rather than planetary.

If I went with say the Skywatcher Explorer 200p-DS, I presume I can use this without a camera to start with ?

Is the Skywatcher Evostar 80ED DS-Pro OTA a good starter scope ? this has a lower focal length than the 100ED so does than mean it would be better at dso imaging ???

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm still here but haven't got a scope yet :-( FLO are still out of stock on the ED80 and Heq5.

What accessories should I also be looking at to get ? Ignoring anything to do with astrophotography for now as I'll just be using it for viewing to start with so what are must have/buys to get me going ?

Thanks.

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If you're looking to start with visual and are not buying the Dob to fill that role i'd recommend considering a Newtonian. Something like  a 150pds on an HEQ5 will be better for visual, and makes a good AP scope also (especially with a bit of easy DIY modification). Faster than the ED80, and with more aperture.

On the other hand, if you are also going for a Dob then the ED80 is certainly a good scope, with a big following on here, and does give more "pinpoint" stars than a Newt.

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Hi,

I was hoping to just use the ED80 for some visual until I got a camera etc, I know it won't be ideal. Maybe I should pick up a used newt to use on the Heq5 ? Mind you a 150p is only £180 new not sure what they are like for general viewing and what is the weight limit on the Heq5 ? I'd prefer a better mount but I'm trying to be sensible in what I buy as it's going to be my first proper scope ! maybe later I can get a eq6/neq6.

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Any reflector requires peculiar gyrations to get it, and keep it, functioning.

That's a big part of why I chose a refractor for my imaging rig. Ready to Rock and Roll without fiddling or waiting for it to acclimatize, and no mirror to have to worry with.

YMMV

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The money is one reason I suggested it - it's not a huge risk if you don't get on with it. A 6 inch Newt is pretty good visual scope, with 2.6 times the light grasp of the smaller frac, so better for DSOs (and planets for that matter, the extra light grasp counts for a lot). There was a time when a 6 inch Newt was pretty much the recommended visual scope for a starter - that's probably been replaced by the 8 inch Dob now, but the 6 inch will do well.

HEQ5 will handle it easily. That's the mount I have. I think it's fair to say it will limit you long term (an 8 inch Newt would really be pushing it, though it would handle an SCT) but within its limits it's a good mount.

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1 hour ago, SAW said:

I've already got 'Turn Left at Orion' was thinking about eyepieces, but have no idea what I'd need with the ED80 ?

 

Eyepieces, now there is a wonderful thing! They can go from telescope to telescope for a lifetime. Get good ones.

 

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42 minutes ago, SAW said:

until I got a camera

..." until I got a camera "

That is key. Properly invested, anyone thinking of going to imaging should seriously consider a telescope to make the hop with.

Newtonian's have numerous drawbacks and adaptive needs to make that transition. And Dobbies can't make the hill at all.

I can do visual with an ED80T, and imaging. Just change what's hanging on it's bottom.

Twas my point. :wink2:

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What would I need to use the ED80 for visual ?

I don't think I'd like to buy a 150P-DS if I am getting the 80ED ? but maybe a small reflector would be ok to use just for general viewing ?

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On 2017-6-10 at 20:15, SAW said:

What would I need to use the ED80 for visual ?

I don't think I'd like to buy a 150P-DS if I am getting the 80ED ? but maybe a small reflector would be ok to use just for general viewing ?

For visual on the 80ed you will need a diagonal as not enough travel to come to focus...great sharp image on the moon but jupiter/Saturn maybe a little small..its more suited to astrophography..

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Well, it's not perfect, but I use my SW Explorer 200P for both visual  and AP. It's VERY sensitive to wind so the night has to be very still to get good images. I use an HEQ5 Po mount (the limit of my carrying capability!) but the EQ6 would manage the scope better as it's heavier and sturdier. I mainly use this scope for planets and small DSOs like galaxies, and my small 72mm frac or larger objects such as nebulae and galaxy chains etc. I did have to get an engineer friend to shorten my adaptor for my Skywatcher coma corrector and move the mirror up a bit as I didn't have enough inward travel on the focuser.

Colimation's easy when you get use to it. Honestly! I'm a scaredy cat and I can do it fine now!

Alexxx

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If you have £2000 budget then I'd strongly suggest you look at the skywatcher AZ-EQ6GT mount and get a 200PDS to go on it.  Those would set you back £1700 new, leaving you money for eyepieces etc...

The AZEQ6 mount can be used in Alt Az mode for visual, and EQ mode for photography.  The 200PDS will give good views of DSO and planets and will make a pretty decent imaging scope on that mount.

My only caveat would be that diving in with a big mount and a big newt would be a very steep learning curve!

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I'm just starting back into astronomy after spending many £k making mistakes years ago. I now buy almost everything 2nd hand from Astrobuysell. I'm often amazed at what I can get for less than half price. Sometimes top kit is for sale because people have no space anymore! It's great! So after all my mistakes I have a C8 on a GSO AZ mount which gets used all the time, all for half price! And I love this hobby again :icescream:

If you buy 2nd hand you can sell it later for exactly what you paid for it too. No lost ££.

 

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While I'm still waiting for FLO to get in more ED80's I was looking around at other scopes. How does the ED80 compare to the Explore Scientific ED80 or the SW Esprit 80ED ?

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On 6/10/2017 at 12:15, SAW said:

What would I need to use the ED80 for visual ?

I don't think I'd like to buy a 150P-DS if I am getting the 80ED ? but maybe a small reflector would be ok to use just for general viewing ?

Eyepieces. And a diagonal if you don't want to be a contortionist. (I didn't have a diagonal for the longest time.)

When starting out, I was showing the telescope to our Son. Saturn was particularly favorable a target at the time. I got on it with an eyepiece. Then added a 2X Barlow and refocused, Ahh! Then tried my 3X Barlow, AHH! Then I decided, Why Not? I stacked both Barlow's and centered and refocused. Holy Cow! It was nearly filling the FOV. (Field of view)

Everybody got a big kick out of seeing Saturn, live, for the first time. Whew! The new telescope had proven itself for visual. :tongue2: (When you are new, and showing family, it's the object, more than the immediate quality, of the view.)

Camera wise, imaging has been quite a learning curve for me. It takes tons of patience, lots of learning your mount, guiding, and all. I think I learn something every session. Last night I learned I need to do a polar alignment and generally check my mounts setting. It acts like it is off kilter or something. So I'll check my basics, then tonight do a polar alignment as well. Possibly the gardener fouled up my mount working by it. :disgust: But I like my basics just so...

If you haven't already, or if I haven't poked this in your face before, I would suggest you sit back and watch some of Forrest Tanaka's video's on Astrophotography. I watched pretty much everything he put up while working on my 'wish lists', and waiting on my stuff. Take note that he modified his 8" Newtonian for Astrophotography. Moving the mirror up in the tube to be able to focus the camera. And how it makes it unsuitable for visual.

Lastly, take care in what you choose so you don't wish later you'd picked something different. I wish I had picked a different CCD camera, for instance. But I made myself learn to use what I chose. If you chose something that has a following here on SGL, it is easier to find help along the way with questions. Not so easy with odd ball telescopes, but it is a big web. The most important thing is to have fun, and remember that you will be using what you choose. So it is most important to please yourself, and your budget, as you move forward. :wink2:

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10 hours ago, SAW said:

While I'm still waiting for FLO to get in more ED80's I was looking around at other scopes. How does the ED80 compare to the Explore Scientific ED80 or the SW Esprit 80ED ?

The Esprit is a class above, very much so for imaging. It is better colour corrected, faster and has a flatter field. These features don't come for free.

The trouble is, you can't have something for nothing. You can take great images with a budget Newtonian once, and provided, you get it all sorted out. You can get great guiding from a budget mount once, and provided, you get it sorted out. What you cannot ever do is see all that deep with small aperture, but you can still get crisp views. The demands of visual observing and imaging simply do  make conflicting demands on a budget, even a very big budget.

Olly

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