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Turn the map the other way...


Littleguy80

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All my new astronomy gear has seen first light and I haven't bought anything new for literally days. I did have a close call with a TV plossl but decided to stick with what I have. Despite this, I have endured a whole week of solid cloud! Last Sunday, I'd enjoyed fantastic views of the galactic pair, M81 and M82, and really couldn't wait to get out again. Rather than spend the week pouting, my evenings were taken up with reading Turn Left at Orion and writing down targets with the appropriate page number from the Sky & Telescope Pocket Atlas. I felt prepared for the next time the clouds decided to take a night off. 

Last night, was the clear night I'd been waiting for. The sky was still quite bright when I wandered out but I was prepared for this! I read a great post, right here on SGL, that showed a number of the features that are visible on Jupiter. With this as my guide, I spent a happy 45 minutes studying Jupiter. Picking out the detail was really difficult but I picked out the colour variations of the polar regions which was a first for me. For reference, the post I used is below. Thanks to Stu for posting!

With the sky looking much darker now, it was time to consult my list. My first planned target was the globular cluster, M92. Turn Left at Orion had described M92 as more difficult to find due to there not being any nearby visible stars. to navigate from. With this in mind, I decided to find another globular cluster, M13, first. As I've found M13 before, I thought this would help to get my eye in before searching for M92. Finding the four stars that make up the keystone in Hercules proved more challenging than I expected. I aligned on one of the 4 stars and traced along the imaginary constellation line looking for M13. No luck. It had been an easy find before so I knew if it appeared in the eyepiece I'd know it. Sounds like a silly thing to say but as an inexperienced astronomer I often find myself wondering if my target is there and I'm just not recognising it! After a good 15 minutes of moving between my sky atlas, Telrad and eyepiece. I stood back and looked up with a furrowed brow. Frustration got the better of me and I used an app on my phone, with the brightness turned down and the screen set to red only, to check the position of M13. The app showed me the error of my ways.... I turned my sky atlas round 90 degrees and started again. Very soon afterwards, M13 was in my eyepiece. I wrote down "Buy Planishpere". Time was given to studying M13 with increasing magnification. I practised using averted vision. It doesn't come naturally to me but I'm getting there. I feel like there'll be a light bulb moment where something that really pops out with averted vision. M92 proved a relatively easy find now that I my orientation was correct. I once again enjoyed the views as I pushed up the magnification up on M92. 

I was now in the mood for some nebulae. Although I'd seen it before, I went for M57 first. Nice easy find, looking great with some magnification and a UHC filter. Another good opportunity to practise my averted vision. There were definite flashes where the ring became clearer. My instinct is to try and look directly at the object when averted vision gives me a better view and then it's gone. Not an easy skill to master! Back to my observing list and the next target was a big one... The Veil! The Veil is one of those sights in astronomy that you come to know through reputation long before you ever see it. I'd actually bought an eyepiece and OIII filter specifically with it in mind. With a little help from my phone, I picked out the constellation Cygnus. After half hour of searching, I had to admit defeat. This time, I knew I was in the right area and that The Veil is a big target but I just couldn't find it, with or without my trusty OIII filter. I concluded that more research would be needed. Despite the failure, I was happy to have another constellation that I could identify.

It was getting a bit chilly at this point, so I popped my gloves on. I never thought I'd need gloves in May! There was time for one more nebula, M27. When I first got my pocket atlas, I marveled at how simple it appeared to be get from star to star and find targets. Those big black dots on the white page looked like they should be easy to find. Squinting up at the sky, I laughed at my own naivety. It took a good few minutes to properly resolve the correct stars. The stars I needed to find where mag 3.5. I found them and could see them through the Telrad but they were faint. No misfires this time, the classic dumbbell shape was soon in my sights. The UHC filter went on and I quietly smiled as I studied it. A very satisfying find.

With the hours left to sleep before work growing ever shorter, my bed was calling. However, I still wanted to get a look at my favourite gas giant. Saturn is the planet that I most associate with childhood, it was synonymous with space in my mind. If I'd written an observing list before I'd owned a telescope then Saturn would have been top of it. No filter, 150x magnification and a lovely way to end a great night.

 

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Great post! A successful night by the sounds of it. You certainly seem to be finding targets more easily now.

Easiest way to find the Veil is to get 52 Cygni centered with a low power eyepiece. The brightest part of the Witch's broom runs through here. Try averted vision with your OIII and you should see it sweeping through the star.

52 Cyg forms a right angled triangle with the two other bright stars in this picture

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Thanks Stu :) I'm definitely getting there. Learning to pick out the constellations is definitely something I want to focus on, I'm sure having a planisphere to hand will help with that. Thank you for the info on finding the Veil. I'll have that to hand on my next hunt!

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What a great report, a very enjoyable read.

Re averted vision, I also had difficulty just as you describe. What I try to do now is focus on a star away from the object rather than looking at empty space. For me this really helps.

Good luck and clear skies.

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Averted vision will soon become a habit. I don't know I'm doing it now, it is just second nature.

I do find, particularly with Globs that if you look at the target, then flick your eye away from it, the movement tends to help resolve the stars in it, towards the edges especially.

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Great report, enjoyable read.

I kinda miss a bit more thorough description of M13 - did you resolve individual stars? How did it look like?
M13 was my target for the night between fri/sat last weekend and I could barely see with great effort that it indeed is not a nebula, but a star cluster. My aperture is almost the same as yours. M13 was a bit dissapointing, I expected it to be more like M36-M38 with clearly visible stars, according to all the M13 hype I read here :)

Also - I am inexperienced observer, so that may be a factor too. I feel your struggle with constellations/night sky orientation. What helped me a lot is a planisphere and a determination to identify at least 1 new constellation whenever I am out and I see new stars (like this weekend, as that was my first session in May and the sky changed a lot). Don't need scope for that, only time and patience.

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Thank you, kilix. M13 and M92 are the only globular clusters I've seen so I've not got a basis for comparison at this point. My attempts at averted vision would briefly give both M13 and M92 a grainy appearance. I agree with your point on it appearing almost like a nebula with the light level appearing to be quite uniform. I'll add M36-M38 to my observing list so I can compare!

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Under good skies, and with averted vision you should be able to see at least some mottling, if not resolution of stars around the edges of M13.

Aperture really helps with globs, because resolution increases with aperture and to resolve the faint stars in the glob you need resolution. That's why you will read descriptions of people resolving M13 right to the core with it filling the field of view. With a 16" or 20" scope, yes!

That said, an 8" will resolve it very well, and as said, your 130mm scopes should certainly allow you to resolve the stars around the edge.

M13 and M38 are very different objects, as you can see...

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1 minute ago, Littleguy80 said:

Thank you, kilix. M13 and M92 are the only globular clusters I've seen so I've not got a basis for comparison at this point. My attempts at averted vision would briefly give both M13 and M92 a grainy appearance. I agree with your point on it appearing almost like a nebula with the light level appearing to be quite uniform. I'll add M36-M38 to my observing list so I can compare!

yeah, but add a date 09/2017 to M36, M37 and M38, as they are below the horizon now :)

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Excellent report :icon_biggrin:

Stu's advice on finding the Veil is spot on. Bear in mind what a huge object it is when you go looking for it. Between the western portion (the Witches Broom) which is the part that runs close to 52 Cygni, and the slightly brighter eastern portion (the Bridal Veil as it's sometimes called) is a bit over 3 degrees so 6x the diameter of the full moon !

Your O-III filter will make a massive difference to the visibility of this object (or set of objects as it really is) :icon_biggrin:

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9 minutes ago, Stu said:

That's why you will read descriptions of people resolving M13 right to the core with it filling the field of view. With a 16" or 20" scope, yes!

Crazy! I only went up to 75x magnification. I think I shall revisit and go higher to see how much more I can resolve. I assumed it would get too dim at higher mags more like a galaxy or nebula. Should have experimented further!

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Just now, Littleguy80 said:

Crazy! I only went up to 75x magnification. I think I shall revisit and go higher to see how much more I can resolve. I assumed it would get too dim at higher mags more like a galaxy or nebula. Should have experimented further!

Globs have a higher surface brightness than nebulae or galaxies, infact they are made up of individual point sources so behave a little differently too.

To follow up John's point about size, here are some guide maps using your 24mm 68 degree eyepiece plus Telrad circles...

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11 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

Crazy! I only went up to 75x magnification. I think I shall revisit and go higher to see how much more I can resolve. I assumed it would get too dim at higher mags more like a galaxy or nebula. Should have experimented further!

I use 200x on globular clusters quite often. With the 12" dob the views are sometimes close to what the imagers can capture with the brighter ones :icon_biggrin:

Low power is also a nice way to see them. With M13 there is a lovely little NGC galaxy about a degree away which can be seen in the same FoV at low power. These "2 for 1" deals are always worth looking out for :icon_biggrin:

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6 minutes ago, John said:

a bit over 3 degrees so 6x the diameter of the full moon

I didn't realise it was as big as that! I knew it was big which made it that little bit more frustrating that I couldn't find it. Sounds like if I can find 52 Cygni then I'll be away. I did keep finding a brighter star which I believe was 41 Cygni based on where it was in the Telrad and looking at the sky atlas

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6 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

I didn't realise it was as big as that! I knew it was big which made it that little bit more frustrating that I couldn't find it. Sounds like if I can find 52 Cygni then I'll be away. I did keep finding a brighter star which I believe was 41 Cygni based on where it was in the Telrad and looking at the sky atlas

With my 4" refractor, the Lumicon O-III filter and the 31mm Nagler (3.8 true degrees FoV) I can get the whole Veil complex in the same view. One of my favourite sights. With the 12" dob at 75x (21mm Ethos) the E or W segments span the whole FoV. On a dark night views like this justfiy the cost of the equipment needed to get them, believe me :icon_biggrin:

 

 

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The Veil is stunning under a decent sky. As above locate 52Cyg and follow the wispy trails all over.

Best I've ever seen it was at the Galloway star camp and it was just awe inspiring. Keep at it I'm sure it will be a target you return to time and again 

Damian 

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Tonight I stood on the shoulders of giants. It was a slow start, 11pm before the clouds cleared enough that I could start observing. I spent my prep time having a brandy to make sure I stayed warm when I got outside ;) Hercules and Cygnus were both still behind the clouds so I decided to go for M51. My recent experience with M81/82 left me doubting that I'd seen it. Those fears were confirmed when I actually found M51! @Astro Imp's suggestion on focusing on a nearby star really helped with averted vision. Very happy to have finally a confirmed sighting of M51.

The clouds had now properly cleared so I returned to M13. Found it pretty quickly. In went the 8mm BST Starguider and the difference seen was incredible. Immediately I could pick out the pin points of individual stars. Not hanging around, I went straight in with the BGO 6mm. Stunning doesn't even begin to cover it. Averted vision came naturally as M13 was filling so much of the eyepiece. There was so many different points of light coming from within M13. What a great eyepiece the BGO is! M13 deserves it reputation too!

Onto the grand finale. I started unfiltered whilst I searched for 52 Cygnus. Found it in around 10 minutes. On went the OIII. Nothing...to start with and then after a minute or so, my eyes adjusted and the western part of the Veil began to reveal itself. My neighbour had his lights on at the back which was doing nothing for the dark adaptation of my eyes so I struggled to pick out details. To keep @Stu happy, I had a tea towel over my head to block out as much unwanted light as possible. The size of the nebula was staggering though. It just kept going and going. I even managed to navigate to the Eastern Veil!  

It was a really wonderful evening. Probably my best night of astronomy to date. I'd like to give a really big and heartfelt thank you for all the advice and encouragement. Tonight would not have been possible without your collective wisdom, experience  and willingness to help. Thank you!

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Fabulous stuff! That's just what SGL is all about :):) 

No stopping you now, next stop the North America Nebula! This one can be very tricky if the transparency is not there, and is another huge target which needs an OIII and good dark adaptation. Sometimes I find it impossible to see, others it's right there.

These views are rotated so they should match the views through a Newt/dob.

Plenty of other targets out there if this one proves too tough from your site. You could try for Comet Johnson, currently in Bootes, or test your collimation with the Double Double, near Vega, should be in the same field of view with your 24mm. Will probably need the 6mm BGO for this one you find it.

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Your reports encourage me to do similar session, well done! I like how the last session made you optimistic and enthusiastic, I know that feeling, it's great :)

Too bad that we still have clouds here and it's not dark before 22:00, so a nice 2hour observing session will surely make me a zombie at work the next day.
The forecast seems good for thursday night, so I guess I will make a zombification sacrifice to see the veil and take another look at M13 with bigger magnification. I did not try it last time, I see that you went with BGO6, so that's 150x with your scope. I only used BCO18mm, which makes about 80x mag in my scope.

Veil nebula seems to benefit the most from OIII filter, which I don't have, but I have UHC, which should provide also some contrast boost, so I am curious how will it turn out.

I agree on orthos, they are excellent EPs for not a lot of money! I especially love the way they show the Moon - natural colours (no sepia tint) and extra sharp view, jaw-dropping sights.

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Thanks kilix. It's a great feeling when it all comes together and you see everything you were hoping to see! 

I stopped at 75x magnification the first two times I looked at M13. I'm so glad I went back and pushed it to 150x. Well worth a day of being a zombie at work! 

I think the UHC should help with the Veil even if it doesn't make it stand out as much as an OIII would.

Good luck for Thursday night. I hope you have as much fun as I did :)

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On 5/22/2017 at 13:12, Littleguy80 said:

Thanks Stu :) I'm definitely getting there. Learning to pick out the constellations is definitely something I want to focus on, I'm sure having a planisphere to hand will help with that. Thank you for the info on finding the Veil. I'll have that to hand on my next hunt!

Enjoyed the reports and yes a planisphere can be indispensable. 

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