APO telescope .... which one?

[TareqPhoto]

Hi again,

So the more i read about the astronomy or AP the more i feel excited about it and can't wait to start seriously [not yet due to some reasons or situations].

For the choice of the scope i know many asking me to start with something like 80ED or in the range of 70-100mm, and i get the recommendation about SW ES80ED, and you know how expensive is this scope regardless there are much much more expensive scopes than this.

I was thinking about, what will that triplet scope give me more than a doublet? also what will be the different between say F5 triplet APO and F6 triplet APO of the same focal length scope rather than exposure? is it very important to have faster scope so it help to have more shorter long exposure frames or something else?

I was thinkingabout why not getting something like 100mm [102mm in this case] triplet APO F-whatever and use a reducer or flattener to make it wider and faster? isn't this a good idea? Until now, in this year, if i have to save for APO ED triplet then i may save up to $1000, is it worthy to get something in that price or just wait a bit longer and getting up to $1500-2000 and have something else maybe better?

[celestron8g8]

TareqPhoto , there are lots' of very good ED scopes on the market now for less than that $1500.00 you mentioned but if you want a true APO you should save quite a bit more and get what you really want . Stellarvue makes great APO scopes and they also have a very good ED scope . Also they are very proud of their scopes and have their own forum for stellarvue owners . They are also very price for their top end scopes but they are really worth it ! There are plenty others like TAKs  , Telvue , TMB , Lunt . Orion makes some nice ED scopes . Main thing is set your highest budget and stick to it . Accessories will be needed and that's extra . If your going to be viewing only pick the best with a good mount you can or want to afford . If your planning to image then your mount is very important as well as the scope . DO your research , make sure what you can afford and get what you really want so that way you wont regret down the road that you didn't buy what you really wanted . Good luck tho !!

www.stellarvue.com

 

 

 

[TareqPhoto]

Thank you very much!

Decision is always tough or difficult when there are many options to choose from, and also if the budget is up enough for more options, if i lower my budget then the options will shrink then i can choose the one out of few, but if that is open options within a specific budget then i can't decide as i am new and i prefer others who bought those to tell about their impressions or review of their scopes.

My main goal or purpose is definitely imaging, not visual, so that i have to choose wisely, the mount part is done, and i want an APO scope if triplet that is in range of 80-100mm, for visual i have another plans or scopes in mind, but for now i don't want to keep buying scopes for imaging or keep upgrading from one to another just because of one feature or two.

[ronin]

For a triplet I suggest  you simply go look at the ES range of refractors. They have the ones named Essential wich are triplets with the equivalent of FPL-51 glass and their FCD100's that use the equivalent of FPL-53 glass. Both are good scopes, one may be a little slower then the other but I suggest that you ignore that aspect to an extent. Reason I suggest this is f/5 sounds good it is faster, but the abilities of the glass is being pushed to the limit, get an f/6 and have a set of optics that works comfortably.

An ED will have the possibility of showing some CA and if you are going specifically imaging then reduce/remove that possibility occuring.

In all the bits read I have not yet read anything bad about the ES scopes, especially the FCD100's.

William Optics have a selection available as they are celebrating their 20th, 21st or 25th anniversary.

One small point to remember is that (I think) ES scopes are set for imaging, if you get one and drop the diagonal in then the eyepiece you will not get a focused image, you have to add one of the extension tubes in the optical path (between focuser and daigonal) - I have the smaller of the 2 extension tubes in. Then the eyepiece will be at the correct location to do it's job. Say this as the first thing you are likely to do is get one, then decide to look through it.

[triton1]

There a book called "every photon counts" available from the sponsor at the top of the page written by a member on here.Advice on here seems to be read it at least three times,it will answer a lot of questions,steer you in the right direction and save you a fortune.

[TareqPhoto]

I will read, but i do post in many sites so members can give me answers, i can't get the books easily so to read them is out of range, or i must pay and wait the shipping which is not in my advantage.

Anyway, ES here in my first post referred to Esprit which is a series from Sky Watcher, there is Essential from Explorer Scientific brand, only Sky Watcher has F5 Triplet scope between the two, i won't look at other manufacturers although i can widen mt choices.

In another forums members gave me 2 or 3 recommendations over this SW one, so i have to think carefully which one to get, also i was asking what will be the difference between the doublet APO and triplet APO scopes for AP, the answers confused me more than helping me, so i am not in rush and i will read more answers to understand more.

I also asked about an idea of getting for example a triplet APO scope which is 100mm or 102mm and using the reducer so i can have 2 scopes in one, because almost all advised me to go with the wide field scope such as 80mm or 70 or 65mm ones, and i saw many upgraded from those scopes to something in 100-130mm range, so why not do the opposite and get something of 100mm and add a reducer to give wider focal length and making it faster a bit?

I hope when i choose that APO scope that it will be the one to live long, for now the first top choice is Sky Watcher Esprit 80mm, but is it worthy over other triplet APO scopes out there?

[Waldemar]

Well... if you are not in a rush as you just said, you might as well order that book :  "Making every photon count" 
Why would reading that book be out of range?   because it takes a few weeks to get at your doorstep?? 'not in a rush' you just said....
You will learn a lot from an expert and not from hear say. 

To be honest at the moment you sound a bit reluctant to put some effort in investigating and gathering knowledge yourself by reading...
in that way the chance of buying the 'wrong' scope will be a lot smaller.

[celestron8g8]

Just for an example look at this Stellarvueblog showing M8 imaged by a Stellarvue ST80ST .

http://www.stellarvue.com/stellarblog/

http://www.buckeyestargazer.net/Pages/Nebulae/M8.php

 

[celestron8g8]

You might also check out these "Astro-Tech" refractors .  https://www.astronomics.com/  has carried these for several years and from what I have heard they stand up there as well or better than the big boy scopes do . Worth it to just check out .

https://www.astronomics.com/astro-tech-refractor-telescopes_c5.aspx

[TareqPhoto]

1 hour ago, Waldemar said:

Well... if you are not in a rush as you just said, you might as well order that book :  "Making every photon count" 
Why would reading that book be out of range?   because it takes a few weeks to get at your doorstep?? 'not in a rush' you just said....
You will learn a lot from an expert and not from hear say. 

To be honest at the moment you sound a bit reluctant to put some effort in investigating and gathering knowledge yourself by reading...
in that way the chance of buying the 'wrong' scope will be a lot smaller.

To be honest, i am not very good at reading books, not in my language anyway, so if i got that book i may jump in pages or read some and stop reading, regardless how valuable is the information or details in the book, and at the end i will end up with one of recommendations i get on forums anyway, maybe i will learn other things but not about which scope to get, because it is same topic about which camera to get and many will suggest to buy a book about basics of photography or how to start in digital photography.

[MattJenko]

I very much like the TS/APM range of APO refractors. Also, the Skywatcher Esprits have received a lot of praise, but don't own one or seen one myself.

[TareqPhoto]

1 hour ago, celestron8g8 said:

Just for an example look at this Stellarvueblog showing M8 imaged by a Stellarvue ST80ST .

http://www.stellarvue.com/stellarblog/

http://www.buckeyestargazer.net/Pages/Nebulae/M8.php

 

 

1 hour ago, celestron8g8 said:

You might also check out these "Astro-Tech" refractors .  https://www.astronomics.com/  has carried these for several years and from what I have heard they stand up there as well or better than the big boy scopes do . Worth it to just check out .

https://www.astronomics.com/astro-tech-refractor-telescopes_c5.aspx

Both of those were recommended to me, and they are in my list of options or choices, and they are all perfect and nice, it is only a matter of which one to get, or is this one worth over the another one? for example why should i buy a scope that costs about $1000 over a scope that costs about $600-700 if both are triplet APO, or why get something that is $1500 over another scope that costs about $800.

Also, if both are a triplet APO scopes, what will F5 be better with over F6 or F7.5? just faster so i can have not so long exposures?

When i choose a scope i want to based my choice on some factors, but i can't tell which factor is important, to each his own, same said the lens glass is a factor, some said the ratio is a factor, another says the weight is a factor, even some will say the color is a factor, and i am sure in the book the experts will mention the factors but they will based they choices to their own preferences, or usage, and maybe my usage is different than others.

Let me ask this in straight forward questions points:

1. Why you choose a triplet over a doublet scope?

2. Why you choose a triplet scope of this brand over a triplet scope of another brand? money is one reason, what else?

3. If you choose this scope of a specific brand, what made you to choose it if there is another similar or even same design and specifications?

[TareqPhoto]

2 minutes ago, MattJenko said:

I very much like the TS/APM range of APO refractors. Also, the Skywatcher Esprits have received a lot of praise, but don't own one or seen one myself.

SkyWatcher is by now the top priority or on the top of the list, but someone in another forum gave me a scope that it will blow away other scopes from what i read about, it is TAKAHASHI FSQ-106EDX4 QUADRUPLET, this scope sounds a dream, and if i should go with this one this i have to wait very long to save, but even with its glory or whatever, is it really worthy over other APO scopes [triplet or even quadruplet] which are much much less prices?

Same with the mount, i didn't go with very expensive top quality mount, maybe i should with the scope as well, sure i feel i want that Taka, but SkyWatcher or ExSc isn't bad, and TS/AT/APM are very nice too, it is like nothing wrong going with any, so let's say if you are limiting your budget to stop the headache of wide options, say you have up to say £1200, which one will you buy?

[MattJenko]

For the £1200 budget, this puts new 100mm+ APOs slightly out of reach, given the need for reducers/flatteners. I personally would love a TS 80 SuperApo with 0.79 reducer/flattener for that money as a seriously high quality widefield setup : 

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p6294_TS-Optics-Photoline-80mm-f-6-Triplet-FPL-53-SuperApo-with-2--Feather-Touch-Focuser.html

Great focuser included. The Esprit 80 and dedicated flattener would be right up there as an option too.

The more expensive you go, the less you get in return in terms of improvement. You are paying exponentially more for those final few % improvements. Is an FSQ106 over twice as good as an APM102, as it costs well over twice the amount new - no, but you have to make the choice where to stop and for some, it is worth it.

Don't be afraid of second hand. This can get you a lot more for your money and scopes tend to age well.

[MattJenko]

24 minutes ago, TareqPhoto said:

 

Same with the mount, i didn't go with very expensive top quality mount, 

If you have any desire to create good images, this statement needs to be understood to be very wrong. The mount is by far the most important aspect in ANY imaging setup. I would happily spend the majority of any imaging budget on the mount, and stick any old tube on it rather than a mediocre mount with an awesome scope.

[celestron8g8]

44 minutes ago, TareqPhoto said:

SkyWatcher is by now the top priority or on the top of the list, but someone in another forum gave me a scope that it will blow away other scopes from what i read about, it is TAKAHASHI FSQ-106EDX4 QUADRUPLET, this scope sounds a dream, and if i should go with this one this i have to wait very long to save, but even with its glory or whatever, is it really worthy over other APO scopes [triplet or even quadruplet] which are much much less prices?

Same with the mount, i didn't go with very expensive top quality mount, maybe i should with the scope as well, sure i feel i want that Taka, but SkyWatcher or ExSc isn't bad, and TS/AT/APM are very nice too, it is like nothing wrong going with any, so let's say if you are limiting your budget to stop the headache of wide options, say you have up to say £1200, which one will you buy?

if the 1200 was my top budget I would get this scope and order the diagonal to go with it : 

http://www.stellarvue.com/stellarvue-sv102-access-f-7-super-ed-apo-refractor-telescope/

Or I would order this scope and get accessories needed to go with it :

https://www.astronomics.com/astro-tech-at115edt-f7-ed-triplet-refractor-ota_p20308.aspx

 

My reason for these two scopes is cause I know they both have good reputations , both made with fine glass optics , I would use both for viewing and imaging , scope size are perfect for my needs , f/5 would be nice but f/7 would work just fine also . Just remember that your camera you use for imaging will be a factor how well an image data or signal as some may say , is collected . Even using a crop camera and pixel size wont matter as much as having a good mount for tracking . As mentioned above and as I mentioned in my first post your mount should be top priority especially if you plan to image . If all I was going to do is observe visually then I could use just about any Alt/Dec mount without a tracking motor . I have an older Stellarvue AT1010 that sometimes I view with just a camera tripod . I know there are a lot of other really good scopes that i'm not familiar with and I have nothing to say about them cause I have never experienced them or known people that had one . I do know in the past a gentleman that had one of those TAKs you mentioned and he got his off Ebay at a great price and he loved it . But from my understanding that most of your accessories you need for a TAK has to be a TAK accessories . I don't know what it is but other brand parts don't work with TAK scopes so that is a big factor why I don't buy a TAK is cause scope and parts are high $$$$ cost !

[TareqPhoto]

I think i will ignore or pass that of Tak, i think they are that very expensive maybe because of made in Japan, or maybe because they are the Swiss knife of scopes, so i won't buy it because of the brand name quality regardless of how quality is the scope itself.

The mount is done, i have one good nice, so i am not worry about it, but even with my mount they told me it is just intermediate and not the high quality which is above 3000/4000, i can't afford 1 item above 2000, even if i do then i can't afford anything else, so that i bought my first ever mount with scope tube and few accessories to be around 2000 maximum, now if i will save about 1000-1500 it will be only for a scope rather than my ST80 one.

By the way, FLO is the best site i buy from, good this site is dealing with them, in fact i found that SkyWatcher at good price for me, i thought it was above 1600, but from FLO i can get it less than $1400, so if that is the case should i look at it or better just forget it and go with something cheaper triplet F6-F7 one?

[brantuk]

Which mount do you have Tareq?

[TareqPhoto]

By the way, i am buying SW 200PDS sooner and that triplet scope will be the future plan, maybe end of this year or maybe beginning of next year, unless if you keep advising me to go with cheaper one then i may get it before the end of this year at best, but i am not in rush as i will learn with ST80 and maybe 200PDS if i get it soon.

[TareqPhoto]

Just now, brantuk said:

Which mount do you have Tareq?

Sky Watcher AZ-EQ6 GoTo

[brantuk]

Ahh - ok that's a good mount so I don't think you need worry about it. For an imaging scope you want something with fast focal ratio (around f-5) - for fast subs, and good glass - well figured to avoid chromatic abberation. A good doublet like an ED80 is a great starter imaging scope which focuses two colours - a triplet on the other hand focuses three colours at the same focal point (but usually twice the price). Beware the larger aperture you use the better the glass has to be (and the more $$'s you'll need). You'll also want a guide scope and reasonably sensitive camera to go with it - the ST80 is a popular choice with either a Lodestar or QHY5 guide cam - many folks use a combination of these. Hope that helps.

[TareqPhoto]

4 minutes ago, brantuk said:

Ahh - ok that's a good mount so I don't think you need worry about it. For an imaging scope you want something with fast focal ratio (around f-5) - for fast subs, and good glass - well figured to avoid chromatic abberation. A good doublet like an ED80 is a great starter imaging scope which focuses two colours - a triplet on the other hand focuses three colours at the same focal point (but usually twice the price). Beware the larger aperture you use the better the glass has to be (and the more $$'s you'll need). You'll also want a guide scope and reasonably sensitive camera to go with it - the ST80 is a popular choice with either a Lodestar or QHY5 guide cam - many folks use a combination of these. Hope that helps.

Sure it helps, i have ST80 already that i will use as main scope until i get another scope then i put it as a guiding scope definitely, also in my future plan there is a CCD/CMOS mono camera, but for now i am using DSLR until i can afford more equipment to my need.

[ollypenrice]

The optics may be less important than you think. You have the mount. You will need to add an autoguider to this mount. (An ordinary scope with autoguider will easily beat an excellent scope without autoguider.)

What about camera? I ask this because the order of importance in your equipment is mount-camera-optics. Most imoprtant is the mount, next the camera and optics last. This may seem odd but I do this for a living and that's my opinion. (Of course that does not mean my opinion is right!)

If you are going to go for CMOS/CCD in the end then a super fast F ratio is less important. DSLRs do need a fast F ratio. You can work well with CCD at F7.

Then you have to think about size of flat field. Chips are getting bigger. The DSLR APSc size is considered quite large, at the moment, for proper astro cameras but that may change. Not all scopes will cover big chips. Be careful when choosing.

Personally I use a pair of Tak FSQ106N Fluorite scopes for widefiled. Both were second hand (one belongs to my friend Tom O'Donoghue) and they go for around 2000 euros second hand. That is pretty reasonable and there is no scope at any price which I would rather use at this focal length. Yes, I know all about super fast astrographs and I don't want them! I want a scope that just works, night after night after night. So do my guests...

Olly

[TareqPhoto]

1 hour ago, ollypenrice said:

The optics may be less important than you think. You have the mount. You will need to add an autoguider to this mount. (An ordinary scope with autoguider will easily beat an excellent scope without autoguider.)

What about camera? I ask this because the order of importance in your equipment is mount-camera-optics. Most imoprtant is the mount, next the camera and optics last. This may seem odd but I do this for a living and that's my opinion. (Of course that does not mean my opinion is right!)

If you are going to go for CMOS/CCD in the end then a super fast F ratio is less important. DSLRs do need a fast F ratio. You can work well with CCD at F7.

Then you have to think about size of flat field. Chips are getting bigger. The DSLR APSc size is considered quite large, at the moment, for proper astro cameras but that may change. Not all scopes will cover big chips. Be careful when choosing.

Personally I use a pair of Tak FSQ106N Fluorite scopes for widefiled. Both were second hand (one belongs to my friend Tom O'Donoghue) and they go for around 2000 euros second hand. That is pretty reasonable and there is no scope at any price which I would rather use at this focal length. Yes, I know all about super fast astrographs and I don't want them! I want a scope that just works, night after night after night. So do my guests...

Olly

I will list the scopes i look at on forums sooner or later, at the end i have to choose one regardless which mount or which camera, i got the mount, and the camera one i have and another i will get later in the future, so now only the scope is left, i can't keep only mount and camera and no scope to go with that is remarkable.

For now i use Sony mirrorless and Canon DSLR, but in my plan i will definitely buy a mono camera, mostly it will be ASI [someone recommended me QHY for a heating system to help in my hot environment, but then members corrected me with new version of ASI that is same as QHY so i will stay with ZWO ASI1600mm-cooled option instead of QHY163mm which is the same specification almost, but this is for next year plan, this year i am only looking for 200PDS and an APO ED triplet[or doublet] scope that is below $1000 or almost, above $1000 i will leave it for next year, i already spent about $2000 last month to get my first AP equipment, so i need to slow down and only go with $1000 or less for one item only this year.

 

[TareqPhoto]

I didn't ask about Autoguider yet, i looked at some options, but i will ask about that sooner or later, for now i am thinking about to get the cable so i can connect my mount to computer, pity they didn't add that in the box, also i am thinking very much about Polemaster because i am very new and polar aligning the standard way will be a pain in.... for me and i am not looking to align it the old fashion way all the time i move my mount, so i want something that will save my time.

Another this is to read more or watch about the software to use, someone told me even if i have the best mount and camera and scope then i must know how to process, without that it will be like wasting money on gear only and then can't get proper results because processing is missing, so i want to finish gear/equipment part then i will completely focus on processing [after shooting] only.