Crawling up the learning curve

[Littleguy80]

I like a challenge. Anyone who's met my wife can testify to this. Astronomy has certainly proven to be challenging, the best things in life often are. I've had my fair share of nights coming in feeling disheartened having failed to find the objects I was looking for. This is the nature of learning something new. Last night was an exciting night for me, I'd accumulated multiple new eye pieces, filters and a Telrad finder. The clouds had been staging their normal protest against new astronomy equipment being used so I couldn't wait to get out. I also felt slightly nervous, when I've struggled in the past, I've always been able to put it down to equipment. I didn't have the right eyepiece or the filter I needed. This time any failures would be down to me!

It was fairly light when I went out so I started by aligning the Telrad using Jupiter. Super easy to do so I was off to a good start. I spent some time experimenting with different combinations of filters and magnifications. The 82a light blue filter with magnifications of 150x to 180x gave the best views. I have one more filter in the post so more testing to be done on another night. The GRS was just moving out of view but was still visible. A nice opening to the night's viewing.

To put the Telrad finder to the test, I'd decided to target M44, the Beehive open cluster. With a full moon, this seemed like something that should still be easily found. Finding Pollux as my starting point was easy enough. After that, things became much more difficult as I couldn't see any of the dimmer stars that I needed to star hop to M44. I proceeded to spend over an hour jumping between the Telrad, the S&T pocket sky atlas and a low power eyepiece to navigate to M44. Long story short, I didn't find it. At this point, I was seeing the benefits of a GoTo system! I was cold and dew was causing me real problems with the Telrad.

Never one to give up easily, I decided to try for a new target. Vega was high in the sky so M57, the ring nebula, was next on the list. I had read  up on M57 in the Turn Left at Orion and felt reasonably confident it would be bright enough to find despite the full moon, which was now high in the sky. I moved my scope to be shadowed from the moonlight. I spent another 20 mins struggling to interpret what I was seeing in the eyepiece against the sky atlas. Frustrated, I stepped back and looked up at Vega. After a minute or so of looking up, I realised that I could see much more with the naked eye that I initially had thought. I spotted Sulafat and Sheliak, the two stars that M57 sits in between. Within a minute, M57 was visible in my eyepiece. Success at last! I spent some time experimenting with my UHC and OIII filters at varying magnifications. The UHC at 50x was the most pleasing to my tired eyes. My big moment of realisation from finding M57 was that my scaling from the sky atlas to the actual sky was way off. The distances between stars were much bigger than I was expecting.

Running high on my success, I decided to go for M13. This time I spent a few minutes picking out the stars in Hercules using the old fashioned method of looking up at the sky with nothing more than my eyes. I targeted the brightest star and started to follow the imaginary line on which M13 should lie. After a slight misfire where I traced the wrong line I spotted it. "There it is!" I exclaimed, to no one in particular. Some more playing with varying magnifications, this time unfiltered at 75x coming up as the favourite. 

I decided to have some fun pushing the  magnification to the limits of my scope, and beyond, on the moon with my newly acquired barlow lens. It was at this point that I looked at the time, 12:30am. A thought occurred to me and I wondered round to the front on my house. It's a street lit road so far from ideal viewing conditions but I could see something low in the sky that I've been wanting to see since long before I owned a telescope. I carried the scope around front, popped my BGO 6mm into the scope and pointed my scope at my target. I peered through the eyepiece as I slowly brought Saturn into focus! The seeing was terrible, it was pretty much next to a street lamp but it really didn't matter. I was seeing Saturn for the first time through a telescope and it was amazing! I couldn't see any moons but the classic shape with the rings was easily recognisable. It was the same feeling as when I saw Jupiter for the first time. It's human nature to let the incredible become the everyday with familiarity so I lingered on those first views of Saturn for some time.

With my hands and feet feeling the cold, I packed up and went indoors to warm up. It was a night of successes and failures. I learned a great deal and will be astronomer for the experiences of last night. More important than that though, I have those views of M57, M13 and Saturn firmly imprinted in my memory for keeps. 

[Pondus]

What a lovely report. First light of Saturn is something special. I was speechless when I for the first time saw it through my own small Heritage from my own backyard.

Its difficult to pick out stars in Cancer to find M44, usually I jump from Delta Cancri, but even that one get washed out by a Bright moon.

Edit : The Telrad rings 1/2, 2, 4 degrees is really helpful to locate objects With some distance from the nearest brighter star.

Rune

[domstar]

What a great report. Full moon day is my least favourite of the month. I had a great view of Jupiter, but can't wait for the stars to come out again. Glad you had such an excellent session. Even the perfect session should have some failures. We wouldn't want to get everything on our first try.

[JOC]

Great report, at the moment I think you are having more success than I am.  My goto experiences are still a mixed bag and although I intend to persist with it I think you are having more success shunting things about manually - hope you get another great night soon.  I can't stay out that late in my house, so Saturn is still a sight I am waiting to see - NB.  incidentally where was it please?  I am hoping to see it around June/July does it appear from the East-SE direction like Jupiter initially did?

[Littleguy80]

Thanks everyone, glad you enjoyed the report

5 minutes ago, JOC said:

NB.  incidentally where was it please?  I am hoping to see it around June/July does it appear from the East-SE direction like Jupiter initially did?

@JOC It was pretty much spot on SE when I saw it. It was rising pretty quickly so I think the views would have been much better from around 1:30am. It's don't think you'll have any trouble seeing it in June/July.

[JOC]

2 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

It was pretty much spot on SE when I saw it

Excellent - that's my best viewing direction, straight out over my darkest route with all the area of my dark field in front of my view - 'I just can't wait' as kids would say!

[Pondus]

7 minutes ago, JOC said:

NB.  incidentally where was it please?  I am hoping to see it around June/July does it appear from the East-SE direction like Jupiter initially did?

You should download Stellarium on Your Laptop/PC. Really helpful planning sessions. Saturn will be South, not too late in the evenings mid June- late July

[Littleguy80]

1 minute ago, Pondus said:

You should download Stellarium on Your Laptop/PC. Really helpful planning sessions

+1 on that. I've used it a great deal just to figure out what stars I should be seeing in the eyepiece when looking for DSO's. You can set it up with the specs of your scope, eyepieces and barlows too making it very accurate. Also has the traditional night mode so you can use it at the scope if you want to. Just keep the brightness turned down on your screen

[BGazing]

30 minutes ago, domstar said:

What a great report. Full moon day is my least favourite of the month. I had a great view of Jupiter, but can't wait for the stars to come out again. Glad you had such an excellent session. Even the perfect session should have some failures. We wouldn't want to get everything on our first try.

 

Full moon is just fine when there are planets around and the seeing is not horrid. No planets? Double stars, carbon stars...

But at least full moon does not make me feel bad about sitting under the LP.

[xtreemchaos]

cracking report mate, a well enjoyable read thanks, you never stop learning in this hobby, I learn something nearly everyday, after over 40 years or so skywatching its never ending , that's what keeps us going, I mean if it was easy we would soon lose interest well, "I would anyway ive a attention span of a goldfish " well done. charl.

[Charic]

1 hour ago, Littleguy80 said:

I like a challenge. Anyone who's met my wife can testify to this.

Tough one that! I hope she only views the Cloudy Nights Forum, so the good lady won't see your comment! 

The Telrad does not magnify, so there's no contrast enhancement, making some things  difficult to see, just one of the reasons me owning but selling two of them, but not the main reason?
I like your comment  about the filter #82a, seems I need to try one, to eek a little more detail from Jupiter, although I think my biggest issue is the size of my image. I can see the detail, but small. A bigger scope should fix that issue, I still have an open mind, but was set on keeping the 200P for much longer.

[Littleguy80]

3 minutes ago, Charic said:

The Telrad does not magnify, so there's no contrast enhancement, making some things  difficult to see, just one of the reasons me owning but selling two of them, but not the main reason?
I like your comment  about the filter #82a, seems I need to try one, to eek a little more detail from Jupiter, although I think my biggest issue is the size of my image. I can see the detail, but small. A bigger scope should fix that issue, I still have an open mind, but was set on keeping the 200P for much longer.

The Telrad is an upgrade from a red dot finder so it's certainly an improvement. I think with darker skies I'll get more benefit from it. 

The filter is only about £10 on eBay. As it's light blue it doesn't have a big impact on the colouration of the planet compared to, say, an #80a (blue) filter. It also gives brighter views which is good for a small aperture scope like mine (5"). The consensus seems to be that 150x is the right level of magnification for Jupiter. You can get a bigger image but that comes at the cost of detail. I certainly saw that last night though it was still a nice view at 180x

[Swoop1]

Great report Littleguy80 !

Your experience with the Telrad makes me think that my decision to go for one when funds allow is the right one. 

 

[Littleguy80]

10 minutes ago, Swoop1 said:

Your experience with the Telrad makes me think that my decision to go for one when funds allow is the right one. 

It's early days but I think it'll prove it's worth with practise. If you're using it under good dark skies then I think it's a great finder, otherwise it might be worth considering a magnifying finder scope to spot the dimmer stars. Though magnifying finder scopes are obviously a bit more expensive than the Telrad.

[laudropb]

Very nice report and a most enjoyable read. I could almost feel your excitement and disappointment as you searched the sky for targets. Still all your successes far outweigh your misses and seeing Saturn for the first time is a True wow moment.

Well done

 

 

 

 

[Swoop1]

1 hour ago, Littleguy80 said:

It's early days but I think it'll prove it's worth with practise. If you're using it under good dark skies then I think it's a great finder, otherwise it might be worth considering a magnifying finder scope to spot the dimmer stars. Though magnifying finder scopes are obviously a bit more expensive than the Telrad.

I have a stock finder on my 150P which is great if I know what I am looing at. I intend to get a Telrad to get me to the correct part of the sky. Once I have Telraded to the correct bit of space, I will fine tune with the finder.

[Littleguy80]

11 minutes ago, Swoop1 said:

I have a stock finder on my 150P which is great if I know what I am looing at. I intend to get a Telrad to get me to the correct part of the sky. Once I have Telraded to the correct bit of space, I will fine tune with the finder.

Sounds like a good setup to me. I think the Telrad will compliment your existing finder very well

[Littleguy80]

I meant to include the picture below of my scope cooling alongside all the accessories I was using with the report

[BGazing]

How is that EQ mount coping with the scope?

[Littleguy80]

2 minutes ago, BGazing said:

How is that EQ mount coping with the scope?

It's the mount that came with the scope so is a pretty good match. Bit of rebalancing required for the Telrad. It has it's quirks but I've gotten used to it

[Paul73]

Lovely write up. I never get tired of reading about first views of these amazing objects.

I had a nice look at the Ring last night too. A tiny smoke ring floating in the deep. Stay up a bit later next time and catch the Dumbell (m27). Pile on the mag and enjoy ? 

Paul

[Paz]

Great report, you will have many more good times to come.

[Astro Imp]

That's an amazing report, I felt like I was right there with you experiencing the thrills when you landed on an object for the first time. 

There's plenty more for you to discover and enjoy,

Good luck and enjoy.

[Charic]

8 hours ago, Littleguy80 said:

I think with darker skies I'll get more benefit from it.

Thats the reason I thought I needed one, to use when away from home, darker site, in-case I lost the visual clue from the standard 9x50 cross-hair setup.
It got little use, sat on the scope here in the back garden, so I sold it.
Bought the second, in the belief that something was now missing? but more so this time, I realised the need to wear glasses in order to focus on the Bull's eye.
Call it old age, or myopia, but I'm considering getting another Telrad, as two of my books reference the use of the Telrad as a sighting tool.
The Telrad works as it should do, its not the Telrad thats at fault, it's me!

[DHEB]

20 hours ago, Littleguy80 said:

My big moment of realisation from finding M57 was that my scaling from the sky atlas to the actual sky was way off. The distances between stars were much bigger than I was expecting.

Yes! We humans are naturally bad at appreciating angles. This is something we have to learn and train if we wish to become accomplished at. I learned this from the work of Cleveland in the 80's about graphic perception and the design of plots and figures for scientific work. I do not have the reference at hand now but will pick it up later today.

* the reference is: Graphical Perception and Graphical Methods for Analyzing Scientific Data. W.S. Cleveland and R. MCgill, Science, 229 (4176) 1985.