Reflector telescope for a five year old?

[whitewaterwendy]

Hello.  My five year old keeps asking for a telescope. I believe we'd just be looking at the moon and planets at this point from home (small city in the US) and while car camping in the mountains of NC. The form factor of a small reflector telescope on a Dobsonian base is appealing to me.  It seems like we would be able to easily take it camping (it would fit in the car with all of our other crap, err gear...) and it would be robust enough for my daughter to mess around with.  Does that seem reasonable?  If so, I have more questions.  If not, what do you recommend instead?

1) If we're focusing on the moon and bright planets, would either the Orion 10033 FunScope ($67, Amazon) or the Celestron 21024 FirstScope ($33, Amazon) be sufficient?  If so, which is the better choice? 

2) If I order the FunScope or FirstScope, what extra eye pieces/lenses should I purchase?  I don't mind investing in good eye pieces/lenses that we could use with an upgraded telescope or resell, if she loses interest. 

3) I am willing to go up in price, if it is going to save us frustration, but I really like the idea of telescope that can really be hers...that I won't feel like I have to supervise her with it all the time that I can just let her use it.  Should I be looking at something besides the FunScope and FirstScope?

4) Any book recommendations for little kids?  Most I have seen have been geared towards older kids.

Thank you.  I'm at the I-don't-know-what-I don't-know stage and would love to have telescope for our next camping trip in 3 weeks--the choices are overwhelming. 

 

[barkis]

Have a look at the Heritage range on Flo's  website. Link at top of the Forum Pages.
Click on Telescopes, Skywatcher, Heritage Range.

I've put a link to it here.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/heritage.html

[Pondus]

Since you are US based its more Natural to look at Orion or Celestron from a US shop.

Personally I would take a chance on  Orion Skyscanner 100mm.  Think the Whole Family would have fun With that..

Orion Skyscanner

(never tried it, but People of US forums seems to find it okay and solid)

Edit : check the link for the short videoclip, and you can see the actual size of the telescope

Rune

Edited May 8, 2017 by Pondus

[JOC]

I've no experience with either, no expertise with telescopes generally and mine were 5 a long time ago.  However, just out of interest I checked out both those links and was more impressed by the one calling itself the Funscope than I expected to be - it even has a little red-dot finder just like the one I bought for my own telescope.  I've seen several table top scopes recommended on SGL and that looks as good a picture as any of the others I've seen recommended.  If the choice is just limited to those two (and I'm sure it isn't) then I think I'd plump for the funscope.

Edited May 9, 2017 by JOC

[Paul73]

I got my 5 year old son a Skywatcher 100mm Mini Dobsonian. It is compact, has a nice simple tabletop mount, a red dot finder and it is red!

He was very happy and it will last him for a few years. I use it sometimes detached from the base and tucked under my arm.

You might have to help her find things as the enthusiasm will start to wane if she gets frustrated. Re, books. My little guy likes the I Spy - Astonomy Book. It isn't much on details but gives loads of things to look for. Also, download one of the Astro apps onto your phone/tablet. I'm not sure what would be a good basic app (the ones that I use would have way too much information for a junior observer.

Paul

Edited May 8, 2017 by Paul73

[Geoff Lister]

Have you considered the Celestron Travel Scope 70? It is a refractor, and not a reflector, but it has a 45 degree diagonal that puts the image the-right-way-up, very useful if you also want to use it for bird-watching. The whole kit comes in a nice back-pack, so only 1 thing to grab if you are in a hurry.

Geoff

[whitewaterwendy]

Thank you for your replies.  Seems like getting a 100 mm is recommended over 76 mm?  My original thought was to go with the smaller, less expensive scope and buy some decent additional eye pieces.  Better to go with the 100 mm and skip the eye pieces?

Paul, is I Spy in the Night Sky the book your son likes?  I just ordered it and thanks for the recommendation. 

Wendy

[Yearofthegoat]

I can recommend the Heritage virtuoso Maksutov 90 from Skywatcher. Both my children use it, they are now 6 and 7 but at least one was 5 when I bought it!

It tracks the stars and it doesn't need to be colimated. Super easy to use and is a 'proper' scope not a toy one. I even use it myself alongside my reflector, or on its own if I'm in a hurry. I've even taken it on holiday because it packs down small enough. It's particularly good for planets and the moon. It needs a power supply but you can run it on batteries if you prefer. Size-wise it's about the same as the Orion SkyScanner.

Being a table-top scope children (or you) can sit down and use it. This seems to calm them down a bit, which means their observing is better. The eyepieces go in the end of the telescope they expect, practically this means the eyepieces don't end up at funny angles like those in Newtonian reflectors can do.

Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with Newtonian reflectors - my bigger scope is a Newt (see my sig) - just wanted to say how impressed I've been with this little Mak and its tracking base.

I think this is the USA equivalent:

http://www.skywatcherusa.com/virtuoso/

and of course there is more info on there.

The very last thing I would just say is, as she's 5, I would recommend you supervise her with it. There is very real danger of eye damage if she uses -any- telescope in the daytime and looks at the Sun with it. My two asked if they could look at the Sun so I explained why not - and I don't let them have the scope to themselves in the daytime (sorry I don't trust them that much!!).

Edited May 9, 2017 by Yearofthegoat
Added link, corrections

[kiloran]

If you're just interested in moon and planets for now I think a small Dob is a good choice. I'm in a similar situation to you (my son is 7) and we started with a 70mm refractor. He gets on with that quite well but the mount is fiddly and not very stable. A tabletop Dob would have been a better choice. You'll also be able to find the easy DSOs if you're out camping in dark sites without needing GoTo capability. The issue with GoTo is that kids are likely to grab the telescope and if they do you'll lose alignment unless its a Skywatcher "FreedomFind" mount (as I understand it Skywatcher don't have much presence in the US so you may not be familiar with them)

With my son I've found that the most important thing has been to focus on finding the easy things like planets and the moon. Saturn and Jupiter have been huge "wow" moments for him, as has Mars (because of a Curiosity Rover obsession) and the ISS (because Tim Peake). Hunting for DSOs other than the easy ones is likely to get them bored and realising how cold they are and quickly quench the astronomy fire. This is a hobby that needs patience and doesn't delivery a quick fix. 

One final thing - a small Dob will put the eyepiece at the right place for a 5yo and is robust enough to let them mess around with on their own. I wouldn't expect a 5yo to be able to get on with slow motion control on an equatorial mount or to put up with the wait whilst you spend time aligning it.

 

[Paul73]

1 hour ago, Geoff Lister said:

Have you considered the Celestron Travel Scope 70? It is a refractor, and not a reflector, but it has a 45 degree diagonal that puts the image the-right-way-up, very useful if you also want to use it for bird-watching. The whole kit comes in a nice back-pack, so only 1 thing to grab if you are in a hurry.

Geoff

Good call. But, the eyepieces that come with the scope are shockingly bad and the tripod is very flimsy. OK as a table top but nothing more. By spending an extra few dollars on raplacement simple eyepieces turn it into a fun scope. But, I would still head for a 100mm Dobsonian design.

Paul

[Paul73]

Yes, that is the book. Lots of things to tick off!

 

[Yearofthegoat]

I'd echo what's been said above. Table-top and FreedomFind is good because they will mess about with it. FreedomFind means you can move the mount about and it still know where it's pointing. The Virtuoso does this.

Just recently my 7yo was learning about the solar system and she was able to say she'd seen Jupiter and Mars with her own eyes. She even drew the solar system in chalks on the patio (will post a pic if I can), complete with Kuiper Belt! I was impressed and surprised how much she'd taken in.

[Galen Gilmore]

On May 8, 2017 at 13:58, Pondus said:

Since you are US based its more Natural to look at Orion or Celestron from a US shop.

Personally I would take a chance on  Orion Skyscanner 100mm.  Think the Whole Family would have fun With that..

Orion Skyscanner

(never tried it, but People of US forums seems to find it okay and solid)

Edit : check the link for the short videoclip, and you can see the actual size of the telescope

Rune

I agree. My friend has the Orion Skyscanner, and I can tell you that it's a nice little telescope. You can fit it in a backpack, attach it to tripod, and it's big enough to see the cloud bands on Jupiter very easily. 

 

[Geoff Lister]

The Orion StarBlast 114mm has a similar mount to the Skywatcher Virtuoso, mentioned, above, by "Yearofthegoat". The Orion's optical tube is a Newtonian (eyepiece on the side), instead of  the Skywatcher's MCT, with its eyepiece on the back. The Orion has a slightly larger mirror, so gathering a little bit more light.

The mount is very flexible, (you can sit it on a small table, without needing to set-up a tripod), and has 3 modes:- (1) unpowered, you can move the scope by hand to where you want to look; (2) powered, where you can set it up very quickly into a tracking mode, and the scope will follow the object you are looking at without having to make small adjustments to avoid it moving out of view; (3) GOTO, by adding a handset, you can select the object that you want to look at, press "GO" and it will slew automatically (close) to the desired object.

I have the Virtuoso 90, and have used it in all 3 modes. To get the best out of mode (2) you need to learn how to find the star "Polaris", using the big dipper as a pointer.

Books are a good learning aid, but I would suggest downloading the free program "Stellarium", on a PC, or the "Skyportal" App on a tablet. I use Stellarium to check what is going to be visible from my location, and by changing time and date, I can plan an evening's viewing. At the moment, Jupiter is very visible (it's the bright one to the south-east as it gets dark), together with its 4 main moons, and, by zooming-in with Stellarium, you will be able to identify each one.

[whitewaterwendy]

Thank you all for all of the information.  I am certain I will have many more questions!  

I ordered M a FunScope from Orion, directly.  I decided to go with the cheaper option, because my daughter only talks about the moon and I wanted to feel comfortable with her playing with the telescope by herself (but I have filed away the other options mentioned here and I am watching for used ones, because I think we will out grown this one quickly).  She has been excited and we have enjoyed looking at our neighbor's tree branches as it has been cloudy and moon rise is too late for us right now.  I am impressed with the depth of field.  I use microscopes at work and the depth of field of the telescope caught me off guard.  I was able to observe Jupiter and its four large moons one clear evening after M had gone to sleep, very exciting.  

I am already ready for some better eyepieces, though.  Please let me know if you have any suggestions.

This morning I realized the moon was up and we had a few minutes before school, so I pulled out the scope and told M that if she hurried and brushed her teeth, we'd be able to take a look before school.  She quickly went and brushed her teeth on her own without complaint, which might be a first!  And then she had her first look at the moon through her own telescope.  A great start to the day. 

[Pondus]

This is just lovely to hear .

Some fantastic 'first light' images youre sharing With us.

As you probably already know, the moon will have a beautiful phase (relative early in the evening too) for Your planned trip (as I recall)

 

Rune

[Ricochet]

1 hour ago, whitewaterwendy said:

I am already ready for some better eyepieces, though.  Please let me know if you have any suggestions.

What sort of budget are you thinking per eyepiece? As for "better", what is it that you feel the ones provided with the scope are lacking and that you would like to improve upon?

[Dave In Vermont]

I guess I'm a bit late in arriving, but I come bearing some suggestions for good books fo kids.

H.A. Rey wrote a book - The Stars - that's good for both kids & parents. And a number of others are covered here:

https://www.amazon.com/Stars-H-Rey/dp/0547132808

Hope this fits the bill!

Dave

[JOC]

I'm pleased you sorted something out and hope your daughter continues to enjoy her views of the sky.  NB.  You can tell her that I love her dress too!

[whitewaterwendy]

17 hours ago, Ricochet said:

What sort of budget are you thinking per eyepiece? As for "better", what is it that you feel the ones provided with the scope are lacking and that you would like to improve upon?

So I don't know enough to know what I actually want...  My budget would be roughly $60 (S&H included).  I am used to working with microscopes and know how good lenses improve clarity, sharpness, and overall experience at any given magnification.  The FunScope came with 10 mm and 20 mm lenses.  Obviously, they are inexpensive lenses, but will be great for my daughter when she uses the scope on her own.  For me and for her with supervision, would a better eyepiece lens improve our experience like it would for a microscope?  Or does putting a better lens on an inexpensive telescope just not have much of an impact on image quality?  If possible, I'd prefer to go up in magnification, but not if it is "empty" magnification.  So my instinct is to get a slightly higher magnification Plossl.  Does that seem reasonable?  Any specific recommendations or brands to avoid?  Thanks.

This is the FunScope's lens description from a review that can be found at this link: "But about those eyepieces.  They're not half bad.  Oh no, they're not Plossls - come on, 4-element Plossl eyepieces are $30 to $50 each normally.  ...  The Orion ones, on the other hand, are the better 3-element eyepieces - whether they are Kellner or RKE style, I don't know, but what is clear is that they are fully coated!  No, not the green (good) multicoatings of expensive eyepieces, but the purplish single-coating is there, which will increase what you can see through them.  PLUS, the eyepieces have fold-up eyecups, so you can block stray light (if you don't wear glasses), or fold them down (if you do, to have sufficient eye-relief - or distance between your eye and the eyepiece lens)."

[Pondus]

Maybe Astro Tech Paradigm Dual ED/ Agena starguider (same eyepiece With quite a lot of different brandings) 5mm could be a decent buy?

Its within Your Budget ($60,-) and will give you 60x and still cover 1 degree of the sky.

There will, of course, be limitations to what you can expect to get out of the small, low priced Funscope (short focal ration, spherical Mirror).

 

[Ricochet]

I agree with Pondus, the 5mm Starguider is probably the best planetary eyepiece within your budget. Have a look here for the options. For an f4 scope I would recommend 3.5-4mm as the minimum focal length for planetary viewing and so the 5mm Starguider is the closest within the range to that. There is also the "BST 58° UWA" which is available as a 4mm but as a modified Plossl I don't think it will have quite the same quality. A normal 4mm Plossl would have very tight eye relief so you would be better choosing an 8mm Plossl and 2X barlow if you want to go down the Plossl route, and if you do the Vixens are the pick of the bunch. The other thing to consider is whether your daughter is capable of switching eyepieces herself or if she will need you to do it for her. If she needs your help then you might want to consider an 8-24mm zoom instead as it will allow her to be more independent, finding things herself and then zooming in for a closer look. However, the 8-24mm range means that again this is an eyepiece that would need to be used with a 2X barlow for planetary viewing.

For star clusters and the like an 8mm will give a 2mm exit pupil and is probably the ideal choice. Again this is available as a Starguider (60°) or Plossl (50°) within your budget. You can also go with longer focal lengths if you want wider patches of sky in the eyepiece although I wouldn't go longer than 20mm from an urban/suburban location.