Jump to content

Narrowband

Should it be this complicated?


Recommended Posts

I think, before I got my telescope, that I had this image in my head of stargazing being more straightforward. I guess I had this idea that I'd just whip out the scope, point it at things in the sky that I'd learn from a planisphere or whatever - and I'd be off in an intergalactic wonderland!

But it's not really been like that - I mean don't get me wrong, I'm havIng a whale of a time, but I can't help but think certain aspects are a total pain in the Bottom. I mean, for a kick off; there seems to be so many bits and pieces to store and look after. If I want to do a bit of stargazing I need to manhandle the scope outside, uncap all the bits, extend the legs, level it, lock it, find the battery pack, plug it in and initialise, find my eyepieces and so on and so forth... and then when I'm done I have to do it all in reverse. And I don't really have anywhere in the house to just leave the scope setup so I kind of have to disassemble and store it, and they're a kind of weird unwieldy shape - so all of which means fighting my way past the family and often interrupting "The thundermans" or "Sam and cat" or "Henry danger" which is a fate worse than death believe me, and then do it all in reverse, and it always means a couple of trips in and out of the house amid calls of "close the door its bloody freezing, where are the dogs, what are you doing?" And so on....

And I know what I want to look at before I get out there I just can never find it! And that means more trips back into the house! I know you guys talk about trips to nearby sites for better viewing and the very notion of attempting that makes me feel mildly nauseous!

I guess what I'm asking is "is it the same for everyone?". Or is it just me? Do you guys have a system for keeping organised, or is there a way of setting things up or a type of scope or observing that is super straightforward (but still uses an aperture bigger than standard binocs)? I'm using a simple goto with a 70mm refractor so I guess that's what you guys call grab and go, but I guess it's not grab and go enough! I'd really like a simple, discrete "all in one" kind of deal where I don't spend 20 minutes with a grownup version of  Lego? Or maybe it's just an experience / practice kind of deal?

Or maybe I'm totally missing the point which is possible! Any insight gratefully received!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 83
  • Created
  • Last Reply
13 minutes ago, Mr niall said:

I had this image in my head of stargazing being more straightforward. I guess I had this idea that I'd just whip out the scope, point it at things in the sky that I'd learn from a planisphere or whatever

Your describing my Sky-Watcher Skyliner?

Life is so much easier now with the 8"/200P Skyliner. That said, the issues you describe were apt when I owned the Celestron 127EQ on its flimsy GEM mount.
I learnt how to align and set-up the scope, and had my first real look at the Moon, but for everything else, what a waste of time,  continually adjusting the setup and controls throughout every session, just to look at something, quite time consuming, quite frustrating.

Best decision for me was the Skyliner, and with its  bigger aperture, more detail, under the right conditions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mr nial,

I think you have probably described most peoples first forays into amateur astronomy. You will be pleased to hear that it gets easier. Ah, but then you decide to go down a new aspect of the hobby and it seems to be difficult again...aaagghh. Keep at it, it will get easier and more familiar, honest.

Good luck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It does get easier with practice. I keep my 200p and mount outside locked in a plastic garden box and I try to set up before it gets dark if I can. I bypass the goto alignment if I'm not going to need it and just use it as a powered tracking mount to save time. This doesn't need accurate polar alignment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I`ve got an 8" dob. Carry it out in one piece.

Collimation check maybe 30 secs, unless I do a rare star test. Havent touched the secondary for years, primary almost always spot on.

... Let the scope cool for a while, or maybe just look around at a few open clusters, while it cools,  using low power.

Sometimes I have intensly structured/planned viewings, sometimes just panning the sky With the ES20mm.

Sometimes  just me & Lunar and some neighbourhood dogs barking at it.

No fuzz. Lovely.

 

....except the weather, work, having to watch tv series With my wife, 'socialising', and me not getting along With my zoom no more....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah it's going to get easier, I try to get my gear out in 3 trips only.

Trip #1: Backpack with books pads, sheets, gloves etc  + EQ weights in 1 hand (in a special transport box) + 22 inches toolbox in my other hand with all the small parts, the eyepieces, filters, lights, etc.

Trip #2 the tube in it's bag

Trip #3. The equatorial mount.

Then it's maybe 15 minutes for unpacking and mounting 1 ~ 3 hours observation, 10 mins repacking. It's happening only 1x per week.. because it's always raining? it's not much of a burden.

--> I take it easy and move the things slowly, there is no rush because we are going outside to spend quality time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fear not, your experiences are far from uncommon - the tube, mount, power, eyepieces, filters, dewshield, log book, atlas or Stellarium (on laptop with red acetate sheet over it in the shed), not to mention the coat, woolly hat, fur-lined boots, red light torch, hood (perhaps), and mug of coffee.

Maybe also a mat to kneel on.  Or a stool.

Wait for cooling, as necessary.

Then there's collimation, if required.  And the alignment procedure.

And if you do photography, well........someone else can comment on that!

So yes, that's what it's all about, - it soon becomes "second nature".  And it really is all worthwhile, of course!

Doug.

(For a quick, easy session though, you could just take out say an 80mm (or larger) frac and a zoom eyepiece.)

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Charic said:

 

Best decision for me was the Skyliner, and with its  bigger aperture, more detail, under the right conditions.

That's interesting - I was wondering about a dob - I really like the way they come as an all in one package.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First world problems eh...?

Meanwhile some are wondering where their next meal or sip of clean water might be coming from... perspective is everything...

It's all part of the journey. And there's a solution for every problem Stick with it, it gets easier. :thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was a thread on the forum a while ago about setup time. Setup times of up to 40 minutes were mentioned for complex rigs.  I could suggest a few tips for reducing the duration and labour of setup. Pick any that fit your situation.

Keep your rig fully assembled (maybe easier if you have a garage or out-building)

Reduce the distance you have to carry the stuff. It's quicker to make repeated trips to the yard next to the back door, than to the end of the garden.

Store your kit in a (custom made?) carry pack so that you can carry it out in one lift and then assemble it at leisure.

I'm not familiar with your rig. If it's one of those highly automated things, you may already be bypassing steps that plague other observers, e.g the two or three star align procedure. You mention leveling the mount. Maybe check if you really need to do that (experimentally?) as I found that precise leveling was not needed with my C8 SE + Starsense setup.

If you are thinking of upgrading to a Dobsonian, think carefully about how you use your present scope. If you rely on GoTo to find objects, then switching to a larger telescope with no GoTo is not going to be a happy experience.  In my case, I was so dissatisfied and frustrated that I went shopping again and got a large aperture instrument with GoTo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm with Geoff on this. Try to store and organise your kit in such a way as to minimise the set up time/hassle. You say it is a 70mm scope on a goto mount so I am envisioning something like this: 

800_bk707azgt.jpg

Is that the right sort of set up or is there an equatorial mount in there complicating things? To me for storage you've got four parts that you need to carry out: 

  1. The tripod/mount. If possible this should be stored with the mount on the tripod and the legs left extended to the right length but folded together. If you always observe from the same spot you could mark the three points on the ground where the tripod sits and then when you take it out you simply put it on those points. If you leave the legs at the correct extension there should be no messing about with the height or getting things level. 
  2. The hand controller and battery pack. Store these in some sort of box or bag that you can easily find and carry out. 
  3. The telescope. Assuming it connects via a dovetail it should only take a matter of seconds to fit it to the preassembled mount. If you need to worry about balancing then I suggest making some sort of mark on the dovetail and clamp, then each time you simply line up the two marks and you know the telescope is in the right place. 
  4. An eyepiece case for your eyepieces and diagonal. See the thread below for inspiration. Having your eyepieces nicely ordered in a case makes finding the right one easier when you're out as well as storing them in a single easy to find and carry package. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is one of my set ups. A ST102 on an AZ3 mount. I set up this morning to do some solar observing and it took me 6 minutes. Storage is very simple and compact, though I do store the mount in an unheated garage.

Dobs are probably even quicker to set up. It takes me a matter of a few minutes, but they are bulky for storing and not easy to move down stairs or through a crowded house. Mine is stored in my garage.

I prefer AZ mounts for the simplicity of their set up and use. You say you are finding difficulty in locating objects with your go to. That is almost certainly because the sky conditions and the size of your aperture mean that many of the objects in the data base are just not visible with your set up.

IMG_0302.JPG

IMG_0280.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Ricochet said:

I'm with Geoff on this. Try to store and organise your kit in such a way as to minimise the set up time/hassle. You say it is a 70mm scope on a goto mount so I am envisioning something like this: 

800_bk707azgt.jpg

Is that the right sort of set up or is there an equatorial mount in there complicating things? To me for storage you've got four parts that you need to carry out: 

  1. The tripod/mount. If possible this should be stored with the mount on the tripod and the legs left extended to the right length but folded together. If you always observe from the same spot you could mark the three points on the ground where the tripod sits and then when you take it out you simply put it on those points. If you leave the legs at the correct extension there should be no messing about with the height or getting things level. 
  2. The hand controller and battery pack. Store these in some sort of box or bag that you can easily find and carry out. 
  3. The telescope. Assuming it connects via a dovetail it should only take a matter of seconds to fit it to the preassembled mount. If you need to worry about balancing then I suggest making some sort of mark on the dovetail and clamp, then each time you simply line up the two marks and you know the telescope is in the right place. 
  4. An eyepiece case for your eyepieces and diagonal. See the thread below for inspiration. Having your eyepieces nicely ordered in a case makes finding the right one easier when you're out as well as storing them in a single easy to find and carry package. 

Yeah it's pretty much the same as that but a celestron - some good tips thanks!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mr Niall,

It can be a bit of a faff setting up my scope, but I have it attached to the tripod and keep it stored in my shed.  My problem is I am not very good at finding things to look at, apart from bright objects like the moon and jupiter/saturn so I tend to get bored / cold and pack up!  I also have an 8" dob stored in the shed too, but find it quite heavy to lug around and can be awkward for me to use as I'm 6"4' tall and tend to suffer from back ache after a while!

I was thinking about getting one of these: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/heritage/skywatcher-heritage-114p-virtuoso.html for the ultimate "grab and go" scope; I know aperture is definitely king, but me being a casual enthusiast this might kill two birds with one stone so to speak :-)

All the best.

Rick.

20170426_224327[1].jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Highburymark said:

4" frac, photo tripod, giro mount. 3 minutes set up time. In that respect, bad backs are useful - mine has forced me to think about ease of use

Ditto Mark!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is just no substitute for learning your way around the sky - it doesn't really matter what you use from binoculars and upwards. You get much more enjoyment and gives the option to dispense with time consuming wizardry !  Some good tips above, glad to hear your enjoying the sky.

 

andrew

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been using a scope for about 4 months now. It more or less goes in a cycle of bad session followed by a good session and repeat. The bad sessions are the ones where I struggle to find what I want to find or with mount or some other piece of equipment. The good session that follows normally comes from a bit of research or getting a good tip on the equipment or whatever my failed target was. I can often find something on a google image search that will give me an idea of what the target should look like in my scope e.g. Leo triplet telescope.

It's really just a bit of a steep learning curve but it feels great when it all comes together. I normally like to finish by looking at Jupiter or some other easy target that I've found before. Always finish on a good note that way.  

Planning what you want to see definitely helps. You can be more selective about the eyepieces and filters you bring out with you then. Plus having a star chart of your targets to hand can save the trips indoors. You can print them off http://freestarcharts.com/ if you don't have a sky atlas yet. Just use a red light torch on low brightness to preserve your night vision when looking at it  

Like most things in life, practice makes perfect. The more you use your scope the easier it'll get :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Mr niall said:

I think, before I got my telescope, that I had this image in my head of stargazing being more straightforward. I guess I had this idea that I'd just whip out the scope, point it at things in the sky that I'd learn from a planisphere or whatever - and I'd be off in an intergalactic wonderland!

But it's not really been like that - I mean don't get me wrong, I'm havIng a whale of a time, but I can't help but think certain aspects are a total pain in the Bottom. I mean, for a kick off; there seems to be so many bits and pieces to store and look after. If I want to do a bit of stargazing I need to manhandle the scope outside, uncap all the bits, extend the legs, level it, lock it, find the battery pack, plug it in and initialise, find my eyepieces and so on and so forth... and then when I'm done I have to do it all in reverse. And I don't really have anywhere in the house to just leave the scope setup so I kind of have to disassemble and store it, and they're a kind of weird unwieldy shape - so all of which means fighting my way past the family and often interrupting "The thundermans" or "Sam and cat" or "Henry danger" which is a fate worse than death believe me, and then do it all in reverse, and it always means a couple of trips in and out of the house amid calls of "close the door its bloody freezing, where are the dogs, what are you doing?" And so on....

And I know what I want to look at before I get out there I just can never find it! And that means more trips back into the house! I know you guys talk about trips to nearby sites for better viewing and the very notion of attempting that makes me feel mildly nauseous!

I guess what I'm asking is "is it the same for everyone?". Or is it just me? Do you guys have a system for keeping organised, or is there a way of setting things up or a type of scope or observing that is super straightforward (but still uses an aperture bigger than standard binocs)? I'm using a simple goto with a 70mm refractor so I guess that's what you guys call grab and go, but I guess it's not grab and go enough! I'd really like a simple, discrete "all in one" kind of deal where I don't spend 20 minutes with a grownup version of  Lego? Or maybe it's just an experience / practice kind of deal?

Or maybe I'm totally missing the point which is possible! Any insight gratefully received!

You mention that you're having trouble finding your targets. While there are a lot of objects to view with a 70mm aperture you will be restricted to the brighter deep space objects especially if you're in an urban area. Make sure your targets aren't to faint for your scope, it's a mistake I've made before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to say that I identified with the OP.  I suppose those of us with Dobs have it a little easier.  I have mine in the porch on its stand, but I still can't lift it in one piece if I am by myself.  So for me, typically, its haul it all out of the corner, take cover off, remove OTA from stand, carry stand outside and place on water-butt stand, go back and get the OTA and remount it, then carry outside the power source (depending on how I'm using it mains or heavy batter), then back inside to get the boxes (incidentally the OP needs to get some boxes it might make their life a little easier), the boxes contain the finderscopes and lenses and the Goto controller, then its put it all together, get the table and chairs out, add a cover to the setup to protect from dew and wait for it all to get cool.  Go out a couple of hours later, find the clouds have done a gathering act in the meantime :clouds1: and take the whole lot back inside

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My 1st scope was a 90mm refractor (FL 1000mm,so tube was about 3ft long) on an EQ. The logistics of getting that outside and setup and then my EP case and then this and then that.............absolute nightmare.

My 2nd scope was a Skywatcher Heritage 130P. One handed job to carry the whole scope and base. Then my EP case.

My 3rd scope was a Celetron 70mm Travelscope. Everything fit in the backpack supplied. Tripod was rubbish, so started using my Horizon 8115 tripod. That was/is fine to carry. I now use this setup exclusively as my solar observing scope along with a Hershel Wedge.

My 4th (and final scope...........maybe!!!!) is a 200mm Celestron 8SE on an Alt-Az Go-To mount. This setup is remarkably easy to carry outside. I do it in 2 moves (tube and mount as 1 piece, and then the tripod). Ive also ditched using most of my EP collection in favour of a Hyperion 8-24mm zoom. The 8SE is as far as i know the lighted 8" scope available. Its the main reason why i bought it. I rarely bother with alignment. I find an object (the old school way) and then i simply set the scope to track it.

Life without an EQ mount is so much more enjoyable (for many people). Setting up any scope and all the bits and bobs really does become second nature quite quickly.

Not sure if this should/does have any bearing on the situation, but i am a wheelchair user. If i can do it, i'm sure everyone can do it. You just have to do your homework and find the right setup that suits you and your situation. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.