Skywatcher ED120, some musings

[Stu]

55 minutes ago, nightfisher said:

lied about its qualities, posted fictitious reports of mopping up deep sky objects by the doze

No issues with the reply Jules.

The problem is that there is no need to lie about its qualities, it is a fantastic scope which many experienced members enjoy for its lovely optics. I struggle with the fact that rather than focusing in your review on your first love which is lunar observing and imaging, and what you largely bought the scope for, you have instead chosen to highlight the fact that a 4.7" scope is not great on DSOs under light polluted skies.

Give us a review of a good lunar session and some images, that's what you bought it for. If you want DSOs, get a dob and go to a dark site!!

[Moonshane]

I genuinely think you'd be amazed at the views through binoviewers Jules. The moon is something else and planets some relaxing. Hopefully I'll have a chance to show you some day.

[nightfisher]

Stu.....I will post some Luna observing reports in time, Luna is not affected by LP, imaging might be with the Mak though 

Shane, i would like to try Bino viewing but it comes at a price, at least £200 for a half decent binoviewer then trying to double up on half decent ep`s, some of my favorite ep`s are hard to come by as no longer made i.e Antares ortho`s and others are less suited..........maybe its like looking at DSO`s with a big dob..........if you dont look then you dont miss not seeing it  

[John]

5 hours ago, nightfisher said:

John, where in my post do i make any comment or quip relating to the hobby, this is the second time you have suggested that my interest/enthusiasm is waning (yes good memory), i can assure you that i am still just as keen on the hobby 

Glad I've got this wrong then Jules

If you are still very interested in observing the moon and planets then you have a great tool for the job.

If your interests are changing more towards deep sky stuff then you might need to re-think your choice of scope.

 

 

[Alfian]

Jules, thanks  for your  honest personal (interim?) appraisal of your ED120 but its kind of - lets  say unfortunate, that it feels "awkward". There is certain sense of inevitability regarding comments and given the benefit of time, hindsight and a maybe a nights sleep (for all!)it will indeed calm down!  I think when I first came "back" into astronomy and started looking at equipment, I  never had any inclination just how personal equipment choice is. I knew there was plenty of choice but somehow thought (naively) that with budget X there would be some kind of optimum equipment/eyepiece line up. That is clearly not how it is! What works for one person may not do it for another. I bought the 150P (f5) which should have suited me well, it didn't. A good scope, no faults,  we just didn't get on, didn't gel. It will suit someone else quite nicely. Advice is given, with the best intentions, the ED120 as good as it reputedly is, is though like most scopes, a compromise. A compromise is almost by definition, a personal thing. You are clearly wanting the ED120 to work for you, you have invested a lot in it personally and lets hope the relationship with time works out. , so time will indeed tell whether its the right one. Come the autumn, maybe with a few good night thrown in (mmm!) you will have some idea.  If I can be of any help for a look or  a loan of gear the offer is there.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Alfian

[mikeDnight]

Hi Jules,

You mentioned in your original post that the ED120 gave excellent views of Jupiter, which is really good, as it says a lot about the optical quality. As far as DSO observing goes, you may find that using a UHC filter, and something like a 20mm Nagler or similar eyepiece, will change your view. Three years ago I swept through Cygnus with my Equinox 120 one summer evening using a UHC filter in my 20mm XW, and the wide, rich field views were simply beautiful. The pelican nebula and north american nebula filled the field. Often I found that just by blocking out stray light by draping a black blackout blanket over my head and eyepiece ( no filter) my dark adaption was greatly increased. After around 20 minutes under my black blanket, targets like M45, M42, M13, M31,32&110 and many more take on a whole new persona. Of course, using a blackout blanket will enhance dso views through any scope. In mid summer however, to get good DSO views observing is limited to midnight BST to 2am.

Mike

 

[nightfisher]

Mike, the optical figure of the 120 has never been in question, it was set up on the day of purchase along side Moonshanes 120ED and gave identical views per given ep............I am pleased you noticed that i was praising the view of Jupiter, i have never seen the GRS so well defined in this class of scope

[paulastro]

I've enjoyed following this thread, thanks for initiating it Jules.  Ah, all this talk about the ED120 is making me feel nostalgic.  In the 120ED's  two incarnations (three if you include the original 'champagne' coloured variety.   it's a scope I've had several of and enjoyed all of them - for the reasons well documented by colleagues already in this thread.  Like Peter, I've used most types and sizes over many years - though not quite so many years as Peter .  Over the eons I have been drawn to a few scopes that quite irrationally I have developed a deep affection for - and owned more than one of all of them, in one case at least five!!  If I had to explain this to anyone, it would take quite some doing .  For the record the scope in question, not in particular order are:

 

The SW ED120 of course!

Any fluorite doublet four inch refractor.

The classic 6 inch f8 Newtonian, including the Dob variety.

The Celestron C5+ SC on it's wonderful table top, DC powered, equatorial mount.

The Megrez 90 refractor. (FPL 53 double lens)

The SW Equinox 80mm - never owned any other versions of this, the Equinox is far more refined  .

 

I currently use an Equinox 80 and a Takahashi FC 100 DL and love them both dearly.  Would I ever part with either of them, I doubt it, and if I do I hope a close friend takes me to see the men in white coats!  Would I ever buy any of the telescopes yet off my list again, ha ha, I'd certainly not rule it out .

I'm slightly troubled as Jules' thread has made  me have visions of a nice Equinox ED120 with a matching shiny black Moonlite focuser, so thanks for that Jules

I would say, I have an advantage in that I can have use of the telescopes up at The Astronomy Centre (Pete's Place) so I don't have to pine over big scopes.

Scopes do tend to come and go, but is there anything permanent is this wonderful hobby?  For me, there certainly is.  All the many wonderful fellow observers I have observed with over the years and indeed still do of course.  Yes, some of them are no longer with us, but the memories of all of them, past and present, will be be with me forever.

 

[recceranger]

Jules,

I have the SW ED80 DS Pro.  I also live in the Brecon Beacons NP and enjoy Dark Sky Observing when the weather allows.

The ED80 is fantastic under these conditions and the views I have had of many DSOs had knocked my socks off!  I also use a SW MAK 150 and on targets such as Globular or Planets it is an absolute joy.

My experience has led me to believe that a decent OTA on a good mount (with a quality EP) under dark skies wins.  Aperture is always nice and I'm thinking of getting a GOTO Dob, but I have thoroughly enjoyed my sessions with my smaller aperture OTAs.

If you get a chance take the 120 to a dark site and I think you will see it's true performance.  Good luck 

[Paul73]

Sorry chaps, but I thought that the original writup was balanced, fair and entertaining!

I guess that different folks read things different ways.....

My ED120 makes me grin for all of the reasons mentioned by Jules. Jupiter on a good night. Wow!!!!! Being used to 10/16" Dob views, smaller fracs make it feel like someone turned the lights down. The ED120 has enough punch to get round this.

Thanks for posting.

Paul

[Stu]

7 minutes ago, Paul73 said:

My ED120 makes me grin for all of the reasons mentioned by Jules.

Of all the things I imagined when I read the review, Jules grinning was not one of them......

[John]

29 minutes ago, Paul73 said:

Sorry chaps, but I thought that the original writup was balanced, fair and entertaining!

I guess that different folks read things different ways.....

My ED120 makes me grin for all of the reasons mentioned by Jules. Jupiter on a good night. Wow!!!!! Being used to 10/16" Dob views, smaller fracs make it feel like someone turned the lights down. The ED120 has enough punch to get round this.

Thanks for posting.

Paul

I know what you mean Paul but when considering scope options last time around, it was suggested a few times that a nice dob might be a great option but as I recall Jules just does not like them

The ED120 seemed to tick more boxes at that time than any other option but maybe more boxes are available now ?

Edited May 1, 2017 by John

[Alien 13]

I have always thought that a 120 mm frac sits in a middle ground where doesn't excel at anything, 70 mm fracs are great at wide field vistas 6 inch reflectors start to open up DSO and small Maks do lunar like nothing else for there price, I wonder if its a case of wrong scope in the wrong place.

Alan

[Paul73]

33 minutes ago, John said:

I know what you mean Paul but when considering scope options last time around, it was suggested a few times that a nice dob might be a great option but as I recall Jules just does not like them

The ED120 seemed to tick more boxes at that time than any other option but maybe more boxes are available now ?

Not like Dobs???? I bet that was a lively thread.

But it does go to show that personal preferences are exactly that. As long as the posts are balanced and not disrespectful to others, then I'm happy.?

To not mention a scope's limitations in a review would be doing a disservice to the readers. 

Paul

[Timebandit]

13 minutes ago, Alien 13 said:

I have always thought that a 120 mm frac sits in a middle ground where doesn't excel at anything, 70 mm fracs are great at wide field vistas 6 inch reflectors start to open up DSO and small Maks do lunar like nothing else for there price, I wonder if its a case of wrong scope in the wrong place.

Alan

 

Sorry. Do not agree that 120mm does not excel at anything???

For lunar and planetary on visual, at its price point then the frac SW120 ed really takes some beating IMO. Give me a 120ed over a 70mm frac any day .

But if Jules wants DSO faint fuzzy Woow moments ,then it's great seeing conditions and dark sky's IMO combined with as much aperture as you can get your hands on and a 6" reflector is not going to be enough aperture for a Woow moment IMO☺

 

[John]

11 minutes ago, Paul73 said:

...To not mention a scope's limitations in a review would be doing a disservice to the readers. 

 

Absolutely

 

[Alien 13]

10 minutes ago, Timebandit said:

 

Sorry. Do not agree that 120mm does not excel at anything???

For lunar and planetary on visual, at its price point then the frac SW120 ed really takes some beating IMO. Give me a 120ed over a 70mm frac any day .

But if Jules wants DSO faint fuzzy Woow moments ,then it's great seeing conditions and dark sky's IMO combined with as much aperture as you can get your hands on and a 6" reflector is not going to be enough aperture for a Woow moment IMO☺

 

A 70 mm frac can do widefield something that a 120 mm cant.

Alan

[iPeace]

Bless you Jules.

[Timebandit]

22 minutes ago, Alien 13 said:

A 70 mm frac can do widefield something that a 120 mm cant.

Alan

 

If your happy with your 70 mm frac then that's fine ,a personal thing. But I am sure if I put the 120ed next to the 70mm and did a visual on numerous targets then I would still have the 120mm . And I am sure so would numerous others. As I said I would have the 120ed over a 70 mm any day, but that's my personal opinion.       

[Stu]

53 minutes ago, Paul73 said:

To not mention a scope's limitations in a review would be doing a disservice to the readers. 

But Paul, surely to forget to mention any of its strengths and how it performs in the task you bought it for is a little absent minded perhaps?  

[iPeace]

1 minute ago, Stu said:

But Paul, surely to forget to mention any of its strengths and how it performs in the task you bought it for is a little absent minded perhaps?  

Er, did we read the same review?

[Chris]

Hi Jules, I've really enjoyed your review and the thread that has followed. I've got the impression recently that you prefer your little 102mak to the ED120, and there isn't anything wrong with that if this is true?. I know you said you are going to stick it out with the ED120 and try to learn to love it, basically, but maybe ask your self the question: if I sold the ED120 would I miss it? If the answer is no, then maybe you should move it on? (Is there anything wrong with switching scopes often, I see that as a hobby in it's own right  ), if the answer is yes then indeed keep it and see where it takes you

I'm sure I detected a slight negative tone to the review, Jules, not regarding the ED120 itself but how you feel about it, and I know you dislike the sky conditions at your home, so maybe you're just evaluating how much £ you want to invest into this hobby? like you say in your review, "this is the most I've spent" (not sure if that's an exact quote but near enough). I kno you have other hobbies which take up money so maybe this is a consideration...It's a shame you don't like the Newts as they are cheap as chips, I don't like the diff spikes but my 6" f/8 sure does pack a punch on the planets and the Moon, so maybe we should try and learn to love them?

 

 

[Stu]

3 minutes ago, iPeace said:

Er, did we read the same review?

I've just deleted my response as it would not help the thread. I'll back out of this now as the whole thing is annoying me too much, life is too short.

It's a great scope, will do exactly what Jules wants it to do, but I suspect the best thing is for him to sell it and buy something else, although I'm not totally sure what that would be.

[iPeace]

Fair's fair. I didn't read that someone has a bad scope, or the wrong scope, or that anyone was misinformed in any way.

I read that someone has a very nice scope and yet has mixed feelings about it, perhaps in part due to heightened expectations for which no blame is placed, and recognizes the need to compromise and get on with it.

It doesn't have to be a problem that needs solving. A continuing journey is much more entertaining. Exasperation tailored to our common interest is to be savored. Who needs daytime television?

[Piero]

Gentlemen, we are talking about a telescope for our hobby. No need to get upset about it.

 

A bit like in love, sometimes we are infatuated from the very beginning, other times an interest takes some time to mature in something more important. I believe that people also require some time to get acquainted and close to their telescope. Again, this requires quite a lot of commitment and effort from our side. Sometimes we go out hoping for a wonderful night but the weather is just too bad and we eventually need to go back home. And the other half (the telescope) looks at us as if she were saying 'shame, I wanted to look at the stars tonight!'.

Eventually, what matters is that we spend a lovely night out independently of what we have. Analysis and reporting details are interesting parts of course, but certainly don't substitute the joy of standing under the stars, planets, and moon.