Which beginner telescope?

[Moor]

I am looking at getting my first telescope and after a fair amount of reading and research I thought I had decided on the Sky watcher 130p which seems a fairly popular choice. I should have left it there but I couldn't help myself and had a look to see what extending my budget would get me, this bought me to the Sky watcher 200P dobsonian. 

I like the look of the 200p especially the extra detail I should get over the 130p but I am concerned about the lack motor tracking which seems relatively cheap to install on the EQ mount on the 130p but considerably more expensive and complicated on the dobsonian mount. The main question is, how important is motorised tracking? Do I need it?

Im reasonably handy and have the tools to make a DIY mount if plans are available, I'm unsure how tricky these are to make, as I say I'm reasonably handy but by no means proficient.

Am I able to mount the 200p tube to an EQ tripod mount should I want the option of motorised tracking? 

There is s lot of questions but I am looking with parting with a fair amount of cash so I want to be sure I won't regret it.

Thanks in advance 

[Cornelius Varley]

Hello and welcome to SGL. Motorised tracking isn't a necessity, especially with a dobsonian. The whole concept of a dobsonian telescope is its simplicity (a true dobsonian is home made using whatever materials can be found).  At low magnifications just a little occasional nudge to keep the target centred is all that is required, maybe a little more at higher mags.. The 200P can be installed on an equatorial mount latter on, but the mount will probably need to be a HEQ5 or similar to cope with the larger size of the OTA.

[laudropb]

Hello and a warm welcome to the SGL.You track using a Dobsonian by gently nudging the OTA. With practice you soon become proficient at this, but at high magnifications targets do move quickly through the field of view. The Dob mount is very simple and therefore does not cost much to make, so more of your money is going towards the optics. A 200p is a fairly large scope and would require a substantial mount. You could do it at a later stage, but this would be costly. I have an equatorial platform for my Dob. This alows tracking for about 20 minutes before the target needs recentered. 

[Moor]

Thanks for the warm welcome and for the advise. 

Good to know that I won't need tracking, I'd much rather have better moptics than a fancy mount, that can come with my next scope should I feel the need to upgrade at a later date, not sure I will need to though.

I'm 99% fixed on the 200P dobsonian now, I just need to figure out what eyepieces I need but there seems to be plenty of options out there.

one more question though, will the 200P be ok kept in a garage or will it need to stay inside?

[Astro Imp]

22 minutes ago, Moor said:

I'm 99% fixed on the 200P dobsonian now, I just need to figure out what eyepieces I need but there seems to be plenty of options out there.

one more question though, will the 200P be ok kept in a garage or will it need to stay inside?

The 200P is a great choice, many will say it's the UK's most popular scope.

As far as eyepieces go, use the scope for a time and you will have a better idea of what you need, when the time comes there will be plenty of advice here.

A garage is an ideal place to store your scope, I've always stored mine there, as it is likely to be close to outside temperature and so will take little time to cool when taken outside. Just make sure creepies are kept at bay.

Good luck.

[Moor]

Thanks for that, breaking the cost to the wife along with telling her I need to keep it inside would have been one hell of a tough sell! Just need to find a suitable cover that covers the entire thing to keep the spiders off in the garage, I can only find one specific cover at a laughable €190, I think a chiminea cover might do the trick just fine.

Thanks to everyone again for the warm welcome and the advice, now to go shopping.

 

[JOC]

1 hour ago, Moor said:

I think a chiminea cover might do the trick just fine.

I think one of those would do just fine - the size of the OTA is quite wide so it might be worth getting the telescope and then going onto ebay to find your cover just to make sure that what you buy covers it.   You can always use an old sheet in the meantime - I use a frost cover for garden shrubs and you can buy several for about £10.  FWIW I splurged on the Goto - I wanted to spend more time looking and less time finding.

[BXRO]

I cover mine in the garage with a poncho which i bought from Millets for about a fiver, also sometimes put it over it at night outside when i know i will be observing next day

[Moor]

17 minutes ago, JOC said:

FWIW I splurged on the Goto - I wanted to spend more time looking and less time finding.

Which one did you go for?

[Moor]

There's looks to many suitable options for covers, I won't go with a sheet though I don't want my kids thinking there's a ghost in the garage!

[JOC]

5 minutes ago, Moor said:

Which one did you go for?

This one:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-flextube-goto.html

It collapses and this also makes it a bit easier to store - it sits upright in its stand and is about 1m or so high.  FWIW I like the Goto - It isn't steady enough to image for hours at a time as there is a particular type of rotation that it can't accommodate - but it finds objects and tracks left and right and up and down and can stay put on an object for 30 minutes or more at a time. 

[Moor]

36 minutes ago, JOC said:

This one:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-flextube-goto.html

It collapses and this also makes it a bit easier to store - it sits upright in its stand and is about 1m or so high.  FWIW I like the Goto - It isn't steady enough to image for hours at a time as there is a particular type of rotation that it can't accommodate - but it finds objects and tracks left and right and up and down and can stay put on an object for 30 minutes or more at a time. 

Very nice, I would love to go for one of those however I fear I would be sleeping alongside it in the garage if I did. 

[JOC]

1 hour ago, Moor said:

Very nice, I would love to go for one of those however I fear I would be sleeping alongside it in the garage if I did. 

Point taken, however, how about this and then get a tripod for it, you might be able to get a tracking mount later?: 

 

[Moor]

That looks like a good deal however I have just done a deal with a seller on eBay for a mint condition 200p Dobsonian for £150 which I'm very happy with, I will pick it up on Saturday.

[JOC]

9 hours ago, Moor said:

mint condition 200p Dobsonian for £150

Excellent, that will be very similar to mine bar the Goto, I hope you are getting a finderscope with it (mine came with one).  I get nice views through my one.  I don't know if the seller is going to let you have the EP's that came with it, normally you get a 10mm and a 25/26mm, I found that these weren't two bad sizes to start with, so if you don't get them they might be worth considering as starting EP sizes.  Some people moan about the quality of the two 'supplied' EP's, I was lucky - mine were better than most, but I expect even the poorer ones will give you quite adequate views for starting with.  The moon will sit nicely as a 'whole moon' inside the view of the 25mm and the 10mm will let you see the relief of the craters along the edge, so that's the sort of view you can expect.  For the planets there is a sticky in one of the beginner threads which will show you how the planets might look against the pictures taken by the Hubbles of this world and that is well worth a look, once you have adjusted what might be your expectations (as I read and did before I found my first planet), try Jupiter.  It's sitting nicely in the South-ish sky at a decent time in the earlier evening darkness at the moment, and I think you will enjoy it.  Have fun and clear skies.  

 

Edit:

This is the thread - well worth a read and if you don't have the time to read, scroll down and take a quick look at the pics

 

[Moor]

That's some great info, I will have a good read, thanks very much for that.

Im waiting for the seller to get back to me with the accessories, it looks like it has the finder scope though, he says it's got quite a bit of 'stuff' that comes with but wasn't sure what it all was. He bought it for his 8 year old child and found it was far too much, it's been used a handful of times and he doesn't seem to know anything about it. Probably why he accepted my offer of £150, one sold yesterday for £210 so I think I did well.

[Astro Imp]

Looks like you've grabbed yourself a good deal.

You will see loads with this scope, just need some decent skies to get you started.

I don't know how well you know your way around the sky but a very good free program is Stellarium:- http://www.stellarium.org/ Download this and set it up for your location and it will show you what's up there. You can adjust the date and time to when you will be observing. Any problems just ask, there are plenty of members here to help.

Good luck and enjoy.

[Astro Imp]

Should have said, the first thing to do is align the finder with the main scope. Do this in daylight when you can see what you're doing, pick a distant feature{well away from the sun) and get it in view with the longest focal length eyepiece you have, likely 25mm, centre your target in the eyepiece and move to the shorter length eyepiece, probably 10mm,  recentre. Now look through the finder and using the two adjustment screws get your target in the cross hairs, go back to the main scope to ensure it hasn't moved. If all is lined up your good to go.

BTW the way to use the finder under the stars is to keep both eyes open and pick your target looking at it with the eye away from the finder, move the scope 'til the images coincide. If you've aligned your finder properly your target should be very close to the centre of the view through you longest focal length eyepiece.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[Moor]

Thanks for that, I will download it and have a look later.

Im not familiar with the sky at all really, I have an app on my iPhone that shows where most things are, how well do these compare to other programs/books?

[JOC]

FWIW I've tried several they all seem to work to a greater or lesser degree.  There is a version of Stellarium for the mobile which I use a lot, Sky Map will even attempt to project an image of the sky on the screen when you hold it up in the air in line with GPS if it is turned on - so you turn around and hold it up and that bit of sky behind the phone is supposed to appear.  Most people will recommend a book called Called Left at Orion - I've got it, it seems well laid out and contains useful info. but I can honestly say I've not used it yet.  However, that should be seen within the fact that I do have a goto unit and my mobile apps.  Oh, and get yourself a red torch too - under a tenner on ebay - if you do take out some form of paper map or list of Messier or NGC objects you will want something to read it with.  NB.  If you print something out, make sure the default output is not written in orange or red ink!

[Charic]

14 hours ago, Moor said:

..........done a deal with a seller on eBay for a mint condition 200p Dobsonian for £150 which I'm very happy with, I will pick it up on Saturday.

Good buy!

The scope fully assembled takes up about the same space as a dining room chair, so should be easy enough to store somewhere in the house? and a cotton bed sheet keeps it covered,  I even have a plastic sheet, cut to measure, and its own cupboard?
At 27Kgs, for me its liftable from the kitchen out into the garden.
By storing in a dry but cold shed will maintain the scope at the ambient temperature to your viewing site, ready to go straight away!
I have to let my scope cool for a while, or power cool it using a PC fan.

As for eyepieces, the 10mm supplied won't be comfortable in use, so my recommend is to get your self an 8mm BST Starguider, the rest may follow? I bought mine new  from Skies-unlimited on the great auction site, but times have changed, and our  site sponsor now have the BST Starguiders available at First light Optics, click their banner, but  check them both out, there's still savings to be made?

 

[Moor]

2 hours ago, JOC said:

FWIW I've tried several they all seem to work to a greater or lesser degree.  There is a version of Stellarium for the mobile which I use a lot, Sky Map will even attempt to project an image of the sky on the screen when you hold it up in the air in line with GPS if it is turned on - so you turn around and hold it up and that bit of sky behind the phone is supposed to appear.  Most people will recommend a book called Called Left at Orion - I've got it, it seems well laid out and contains useful info. but I can honestly say I've not used it yet.  However, that should be seen within the fact that I do have a goto unit and my mobile apps.  Oh, and get yourself a red torch too - under a tenner on ebay - if you do take out some form of paper map or list of Messier or NGC objects you will want something to read it with.  NB.  If you print something out, make sure the default output is not written in orange or red ink!

I have had a look at turn left at orion on amazon, I will see how i go before buying any books, there seems to be so much information on this an other sites. A red torch is on the list to buy.

13 minutes ago, Charic said:

Good buy!

The scope fully assembled takes up about the same space as a dining room chair, so should be easy enough to store somewhere in the house? and a cotton bed sheet keeps it covered,  I even have a plastic sheet, cut to measure, and its own cupboard?
At 27Kgs, for me its liftable from the kitchen out into the garden.
By storing in a dry but cold shed will maintain the scope at the ambient temperature to your viewing site, ready to go straight away!
I have to let my scope cool for a while, or power cool it using a PC fan.

As for eyepieces, the 10mm supplied won't be comfortable in use, so my recommend is to get your self an 8mm BST Starguider, the rest may follow? I bought mine new  from Skies-unlimited on the great auction site, but times have changed, and our  site sponsor now have the BST Starguiders available at First light Optics, click their banner, but  check them both out, there's still savings to be made?

 

I keep it in the garage, a cupboard is not a bad idea, I have some spare stud work timber and some plywood left over from a previous project so than could be put to good use, saves me buying a cover too.

I will check out the eyepieces that comes with it before buying anymore, see which length I prefer, I had a quick look around and as an eye glasses wearer it would appear that the vixen SLV or the BST that you suggested seem to be popular choices. Im unsure exactly what accessories I will be getting so I will hold off getting anything bar a moon filter (I want to be prepared for the first night but I will get it from amazon so I can return it if it comes with one) until I get the scope and see what it comes with.

 

[Charic]

7 minutes ago, Moor said:

I will check out the eyepieces that comes with it before buying anymore, see which length I prefer

Good idea.
Moon filter? Sunglasses (honest) work well, as does leaving the dust cap on the end of the telescope, only removing  the smaller 2" cap ( only one removes - the other one is the storage point? remove one, place it on the other for safe keeping ) Yes this reduces the light levels that are blinding sometimes, but not damaging!!!!! It also changes the parameters of the scope, so instead of viewing with an 8" f/6 scope, your effectively using a 2" f/24 scope, but on the Moon, your just going to see a dimmed Moon. Try it!
 

Two more things? only use one of the supplied eyepiece adaptors (not both together ) otherwise you won't achieve focus, and on the focuser, there is a focus lock adjuster, just make sure its loose when you operate the focuser, i.e. adjust the focuser, ensuring the focuser moves in/out. If it doesn't  the lock is applied.

 

[JOC]

4 hours ago, Moor said:

getting anything bar a moon filter

In case it is of use don't forget that you may not need a moon filter (NB.  I also wear spectacles).  I've read on SGL that some people clearly feel it is too bright for them, however, I don't find any issue with it and am quite happy to view it unfiltered.  You will also have a couple of other options. 

The telescope should come with a big plastic insert type cover with two smaller indented circles in it.  One of these has a lid that you can pull off (put the lid on the other indent so you don't lose it) once taken off the aperture is reduced and this removes a lot of the brightness of the moon and other bright objects (of course there is are also downsides of making the aperture smaller, but on something as big as the moon it certainly works).  The problems with the filters is that as you change EPs you have to really swap the filter onto each new EP, there is a ruse whereby you raise the plastic eye cups and sit the filter in the top, but I worry about it dropping out as I move the EP and forget about it. You could also just put on a pair sunglasses.  :-D

NB.  Charic hadn't yet posted above when I wrote and posted this, the only thing written above at that point was 'Good idea'!

[Chefgage]

A handy 'extra' i find usefull is a head torch. I got one from ebay that has both a red light which is ideal for reading star charts and not ruining your night vision and also a white light which i use when i have finished for the night and ready to pack up.