New to Forum and Advice on Deep Sky Grab & Go

[spearbearer]

Hello -

I am brand new to Stargazers Lounge this afternoon, and looking forward to discovering the many treasures which I'm sure are on offer!

Probably predictably, I'm starting with a question...

I have three telescopes:

1) Skywatcher Explorer 200p Newtonian reflector

2) Skywatcher Heritage 90 Maksutov with 'Virtuoso' mount http://www.opticalvision.co.uk/beginners-telescopes/skywatcher_heritage-90_virtuoso_autotracking_telescope.html

3) Orion ST 80-A refractor

The Skywatcher Explorer came with its EQ5 mount and tripod, the little Mak has its own small computerised tracking mount and for the Orion I bought a Celestron 'heavy duty' alt-az tripod which isn't very heavy duty at all, but seems to do the job with the two small scopes: http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/celestron-heavy-duty-altaz-tripod.html

My problem is a common one. There are no suitable observing sites near my house and I have to take gear in my van to do any decent observing. It didn't take me long to realise that loading up the reflector complete with mount and tripod, along with setting up and packing it all up at the end is almost enough hassle to take the enjoyment out of observing. For this reason I have taken the reflector, mount and tripod to my place in France where it will be much easier to get it into action.

This leaves me here in Guernsey with my two small scopes which are nice but pretty much entry level. My interest is in deep sky visual observing and I'm hoping to explore as many Messier and NGC objects as I can. For this purpose I'm thinking of buying something with a bit more oomph than the 90 mm Mak and the 80mm Orion, but a major criterion is that whatever it is it will have to be easily transportable and with a minimum of fiddling about, collimation and so on. For this reason I'm aiming to steer away from reflectors. Ideally the new scope would also sit on either the relatively light 'heavy duty' Celestron alt-az tripod or the tracking mount for the small Mak, though this isn't so critical as I could probably make something to suit the instrument.

I was thinking about the Skywatcher Skymax-150 PRO 6 inch Mak but am going off the idea as being a Mak it's more of a planetary scope, as well as being a bit on the heavy side for small mounts. So... maybe a 127mm Mak (I'm willing to be persuaded by anyone out there who has had good results on deep sky targets with one)...? Or another type of medium sized catadioptric...? Or perhaps there's a nice refractor which is reasonably light, easy to transport and set up but will give significantly better deep sky views than the Orion 80 mm short tube...?

I'm limiting my budget to £500 total on an OTA only basis as I'd prefer to spend my money on the optics than on computerisation or mounts/tripods, and alt-az action is fine for me at this stage, even if I have to make it myself or beef up what I already have.

Thanks for bearing with me. Looking forward to your good advice. Nice to be here!

gary

[scitmon]

For DSO's, go with a Refractor.  Maks, as you say, are more a planetary scope.  I would give your Orion another chance to be honest, but if you feel the need for upgrading it I think the Skywatcher 80ED DS-Pro will be recommended many times in this thread.

[spearbearer]

Thank you for this, scitmon. Your vote of confidence in the Orion is appreciated and gives food for thought. I have in fact liked it ever since I bought it. Rightly or wrongly, though, as a beginner I have always thought of it more as rich field than as something which would pull up DSO's in detail. That may not be fair though.

The 80ED DS-Pro looks like a beauty. But a quick browse has shown me that the Skywatcher Evostar 120 could be more of the upgrade I'm looking for in terms of size, and comes in at a pleasantly low price (which of course may not be a good sign...!).

I guess the quality of the 80 ED must be way higher. However, any thoughts you (or others) may have on the Evostar 120 would be very welcome.

Thanks again.

[Mark at Beaufort]

Gary welcome to SGL.

My local Astro Society has a monthly observing night which I organise. I have found taking my Orion VX8 on a SkyTee 2 Mount and Berlebach tripod is no problem to set up and take down. I accept this is more than your £500 budget.

I agree that for DSOs the Mak/Cass, although an excellent scope, is not the best choice. I know that a Refractor of say 100 or 120mm will give you good views of the Moon, Planets and DSOs but I would have thought IMHO that a 6" Newt on a Alt/Az mount might serve you better.

My choice would be - https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-150p-ds-ota.html

on a https://www.firstlightoptics.com/vixen-mounts/vixen-porta-ii-mount.html

Or  using the same mount  https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-120t-ota.html or https://www.firstlightoptics.com/evostar/skywatcher-evostar-120-ota.html

 

[spearbearer]

Thank you Mark.

At this point my leaning is away from reflectors and the skywatcher explorer 150P is perhaps a bit too similar to the 200P I just exiled to France! However, I need to try to keep an open mind and will not rule anything out.

The Vixen mount looks very good and solid and I considered spending a little extra on getting one when I bought the Celestron one, only being put off by the fact that it didn't have cables, just knobs. In retrospect, the Celestron is ok-ish but with a bit of a tinny feel and I suspect I'd have done better with the Vixen.

Will give thought to your suggestions.

Cheers,

gary

[andrew63]

You have a good selection of scopes and the best one in France !  I feel for DSO the base is really above 4" . An option could be as suggested a startravel 120 and do not rule out a short focus 6" newtonian both would work well on a skywatcher AZ4 mount, solid and highly portable.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-120t-ota.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/alt-azimuth/skywatcher-az4-alt-az-mount.html

andrew

[spearbearer]

Hi Andrew -

Thanks for the feedback. I plan to put up an iron-on-concrete pier in France to give the 200P (with its EQ5 mount) the 'standing' it deserves.

Funnily enough I've just been looking at the Startravel 120 and the Skywatcher AZ-4 mount, finding myself gravitating towards them... and then I read your post.

Could be a serious contender!

If I go down this route I might go for the scope first, see how it sits on the Celestron tripod I have and consider upgrading to the Skywatcher mount if I need to.

If you have the time (or anyone else has), I would be grateful for any thoughts about the relative merits of the Skywatcher Startravel 120, the Startravel 150 and the Evostar 120, given my criteria of DSO and grab-and-go portability.

You are all making me feel very welcome on my first day here. Much appreciated!

[Mark at Beaufort]

Gary if you seriously looking towards a Refractor you should also look at the Bresser range. I understand that the Bresser range has a better focuser than the Skywatcher and the objective is reasonable as well. Here are some links - https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bresser-telescopes.html

[spearbearer]

Ah, yes Mark. TBH I'm a sucker for appearances and I have always liked the white colour scheme of the Bressers. And since we last spoke I have picked up from reviews that the focuser is the weak point of the Startravels. Will seriously consider a Bresser. Thanks for the tip.

gary

[spearbearer]

Decision made.

Following the above discussion with yourselves (Mark in particular), some time looking at more reviews and a couple of glasses of French mead, I just ordered the Bresser Messier AR-127S/635.

Half the price of the 6 inch Mak I was thinking about buying, and much more suited to my purposes it seems.

My little Orion ST-80 will still be used on camper van trips and such like.

Fab!

Many thanks for your help guys. Will check back into this thread once I have tried it out.

gary

[happy-kat]

Given you have plentiful dark site locations even your ST80 should be able to pick out plenty DSO, I too have the Orion ST80 chosen for the white livery over the black flavour. Will you be using your new telescope on your Celestron mount if so this page about counter weight might be of use (different mount but similar I think) to help balance your new telescope with a bit of DIY. Hope it workls out well the new telescope.

link

[spearbearer]

Hi happy-kat  :-)

Not sure if you know Guernsey or not but you're right - there are dark-sky places. However, there are also many quite light-polluted areas,  one of which I live in, hence my decision to upgrade my grab-and-go facilities.

I have indeed found the Orion ST-80 to be a nice little scope and will still use it. However, I decided that since I'd decided to leave my 8 inch reflector in France I would look for something with minimal setup/takedown hassle but a bit more capacity to peer into DSO's than the ST-80. The carrying handle on the Bresser is a very nice touch in that respect!

On your point about livery - I'm learning that lots of us are particular about the aesthetics of our scopes - and rightly so, for they are beautiful things :-)

Thanks for the link to the info on mounts and counterweighting. My plan is to initially try the new scope on the Celestron mount and see what happens. After that I'll do what I need to. I'm quite drawn to the Skywatcher AZ4, but I also like a bit of home workshoppery so we shall see. The link you sent looks very interesting in that respect.

I'm blown away by how friendly and helpful you guys are! I hope to be equally helpful to others when I'm a bit more clued up.

Thank you.

[Mark at Beaufort]

Well done Gary on your purchase. I look forward to reading your review on this scope in due course.

[spearbearer]

Cheers Mark.

As a relative newbie I'm not sure that anything I might write will deserve to be called a 'review'. But I'll do what I can!

[happy-kat]

Take a closer look at my profile picture ;-) I'm happy with my az3 as I like the slow motion controls and have also fashioned a counter weight for it. I found on my ST80 that my own eyepieces did improve the views from it. 

[spearbearer]

Was it taken in Guernsey? The architectural style looks familiar, with its blue/grey granite...

Yeah, I like the slow motion controls too. Will go with it and see how it feels.

[happy-kat]

The building is now flattened sadly, it's the old brewery bottom of le Val des Terres

[scitmon]

16 hours ago, spearbearer said:

Thank you for this, scitmon. Your vote of confidence in the Orion is appreciated and gives food for thought. I have in fact liked it ever since I bought it. Rightly or wrongly, though, as a beginner I have always thought of it more as rich field than as something which would pull up DSO's in detail. That may not be fair though.

The 80ED DS-Pro looks like a beauty. But a quick browse has shown me that the Skywatcher Evostar 120 could be more of the upgrade I'm looking for in terms of size, and comes in at a pleasantly low price (which of course may not be a good sign...!).

I guess the quality of the 80 ED must be way higher. However, any thoughts you (or others) may have on the Evostar 120 would be very welcome.

Thanks again.

I'm certainly no expert yet, I'm relatively new to astronomy.  I recommended the 80ED DS-Pro because that was what my research as a first DSO scope came up with (with astrophotography in mind too) and I bought it.  I think the main difference between the 80ED and the evostar 120 is the quality of the optics (apochromatic vs achromatic).  The aperture size, as I understand it (but I may be wrong?) is not as critical for DSO's?

[spearbearer]

15 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

The building is now flattened sadly, it's the old brewery bottom of le Val des Terres

Ah yes. I figured that it might be the hill climb! Only time when numbered cars drive on the right :-)

[spearbearer]

10 minutes ago, scitmon said:

I'm certainly no expert yet, I'm relatively new to astronomy.  I recommended the 80ED DS-Pro because that was what my research as a first DSO scope came up with (with astrophotography in mind too) and I bought it.  I think the main difference between the 80ED and the evostar 120 is the quality of the optics (apochromatic vs achromatic).  The aperture size, as I understand it (but I may be wrong?) is not as critical for DSO's?

You and me both then  :-)

The 80ED DS-Pro does look amazing and I'm sure that as an apo it's fabulous optically. However, I felt that in terms of size and power it might not differ enough from the Orion ST-80 to justify the spend, even though it would be optically superior.

My understanding is that the benefit of more aperture for DSO's would be more light gathering and hence capacity to soak up more magnification - in other words, more detail.

But the die is now cast, my having ordered the 5 inch Bresser! Once I've tried it out I'll try to say something about it in relation to this very question.

[spearbearer]

Well, this is what I ended up with:

 

Bresser Messier AR-127S / 635

 

Caveat: Please bear in mind that I'm a relative beginner, so what I write below may be somewhat limited.

But here goes...

My impressions:

The telescope is somewhat bigger than I expected, and - along with the mount - adds up to a fair weight. I was wondering if I had actually accquired another 'grab'n'groan' setup. However, not so. The overall feel is one of quality and chunkiness, and the carrying handle is a godsend. I will have no qualms about leaving the scope set up with finders , diagonal and eyepiece under a dust cover ready to be lifted by the handle and carried as it is. Weight isn't the issue for me, it's fiddliness that bothers me and I think this scope will enable me to minimise that while still offering decent size and aperture. The tube itself feels very solid - not tinny at all. The overall look is - in my opinion - very nice, with the white gloss finish accented by touches of red and black. I was unsure whether the finder would be of the illuminated variety with reticle. It wasn't, so I attached my Celestron Starpointer Pro, which can be seen in the picture. It's nice to use but has a trashy feel and is  a nightmare of fiddliness to align. Two of the nylon adjustment screws for the finder were broken on arrival, but I'm sure FLO will sort that out.

Optically? Well, the clouds rolled in in the late afternoon and didn't roll back out again. I did look at some trees though. Looking first at branches against the pale grey sky, I was struck by the retro-psychedelic purple and yellow fringes on the leaves. I believe that this is to be expected in a scope of this type and price range, and it doesn't bother me as I bought it mainly for deep sky observing where CA will most likely not be an issue. On looking at other trees with less contrasty backgrounds, the overall impression was much better. I'll come on to that below, when discussing the eyepiece.

 

Skywatcher AZ4 Alt-Az Mount

 

 

 

What can I say? Something so superbly ergonomic is immediately beautiful. You clamp your scope into the dovetail, make sure it's balanced, set the two friction clutches to your heart's desire and off you go, delighting in the effortlessly smooth motion as you steer around using the satisfyingly solid handle. This marvel sits atop a heavy stainless steel tripod which you just know won't let you down. The sky is yours.

 

Baader ClickLock 2" DiElectric Star Diagonal

I'm finding I much prefer to gaze into 2" eyepieces than peer into 1.25" ones, so I needed a 2" diagonal. This one has the additional merit of a nice twist locking system actuated by a small lever. When your eyepiece is in there and it's done up tight, you know it's not going anywhere. I like.

 

Baader Hyperion Zoom Eyepiece Mk IV

 

With this eyepiece installed in the Clicklock diagonal, the whole thing has a very solid feel. I refer you to Neil English's website for a knowledgeable discussion of its optics, as you will find this preferable to my own as yet uninformed opinions. Suffice to say that when I read his lyrical appraisal of this bit of kit, I knew it was only a matter of time...

The focal length of the Hyperion ranges from 8mm- 24mm, which in this telescope gives magnifications of 26x -79x. This evening I had it trained on a tree which was far away enough to just look like thin, scratchy, dark silhouetted lines to the naked eye. At 79x I could see that it had pink buds, some of which were breaking out into white flowers, and that some bright green, pointed leaves were emerging. Also visible were the texture of the greyish bark and the mottling  of yellow lichen upon it. All crystal clear.

My days of fumbling about for eyepieces in the dark may be (almost) over!

Can't wait to see what it does with star clusters and galaxies. Will try to post something sensible about it when I have...

[Ricochet]

Very nice  you'll have a lot of fun with that I think. I approve of the clicklock upgrade, they make changing eyepieces so much easier. Is the thumbscrew where the focuser joins the main tube to allow the focuser to rotate in the tube? 

[spearbearer]

Yes, I believe so, but will check tomorrow and confirm.

Thanks for your comment

[Dave In Vermont]

As the owner - long time - of a Meade 127mm F9.3 AR5 Refractor*, bought new in 2003, I can tell you you've got yourself a really, really nice refractor there! Very well done, Sir!

The sharp definition mine serves up are simply spectacular. I'll never forget my first views on the passing of a Moon over Jupiter - The stark beauty of the perfect black dot passing over the equatorial-bands on Jupiter cannot be done justice in mere words (though I do try - don't I? )

Enjoy!

Dave

 

* Meade and Bresser are related brands/companies.

[spearbearer]

Cheers Dave  

Your words are good. I can just see that black dot...