My new AVX Mount

[Adaaam75]

Hi guys,

Okay so I have a few questions regarding my AVX mount that have basically generated from me reading up on setting up my mount. Please don’t think I’m lazy, I have read up a lot regarding my new mount (hence the questions) and learned a lot so far but as I’ve only had the mount a week and due to work and time constraints I have been unable to do any more than literally unpack the mount and put it together. I should mention it took 30 minutes to flatten all the cardboard ready for Mr Recycling Man but the more packaging the better so no complaints there at all!!
So, my questions are so I can have a one stop shop answer reference rather than trying to remember where all the tips were on this wealth of knowledge forum. Please excuse my ignorance, I’ve had my trusty Sky Watcher 130p AZ2 for 6 years so I’ve not just jumped in blind .....
 
1)    Why is there a necessity to ensure the mount is facing the correct direction when setting up the scope?
 
2)    I’ve heard similar comments made with regard to members permanent piers in their observatories, again, what is being referred to here and how would you ensure a circular steel pier IS facing a correct direction?
 
3)    Does the peg on the tripod Base plate need to be directly over one of the legs or is it fine where it is positioned? (In between two legs)
 
4)    Is there anything I should do during daylight hours other than align the (finderscope) in preparation for the alignment process?
 
5)    Do I need to update my mount with the latest firmware (?) Software upgrade or can I assume as I bought it 3 weeks ago it will come up to date?
 
6)    HOW do I update my firmware software?
 
7)    How accurate does the declination need to be? Can I work off the (slightly crude) scale on the mong or should I be looking at getting a digital spirit level for accuracy?
 
8)    With vibration in mind, until I sort out a permanent pier my scope will be on the tripod in the observatory, should I allow the tripod legs to stand on the soft flooring foam tiles or should it be on the wooden floor of the shed?
 
9)    Do I need to worry about leaving my spanking new scope and mount exposed to the elements, all be it under a waterproof bike cover in the obs and secure? Slightly nervous ?
 
I really appreciate your time in both reading and hopefully replying with some useful guidance!
 
All the best, looking forwards to those clear skies!

 

[jambouk]

Right, give me a few minutes to put together an answer to [some] of these questions.

What you also need to consider, is that:

• there are various ways to do even the simplest of tasks in practical astronomy, though there are individuals who believe their way is the only way, and will criticise what anyone else does / suggests - so don't worry if someone comes along and says this advice is a pile of...
• whilst watching someone who knows what they are doing to set up an equatorial it can look very simple (and fundamentally is), but there are countless little steps and the whole process requires a bit of understanding about the celestial sphere, so if this takes a few weeks to get your head around, don't worry, that is normal, even for bright people.
• many of us with jobs and other commitments don't have the energy to set up every clear night, that is OK; it is just a hobby after all, do it when you want to do it and don't feel guilty if you don't do it. I am sure, however, that if I had an observatory [and a pier] I would use my telescopes more.

Right, back in 10 with some answers.

James

 

[jambouk]

I have only ever owned Skywatcher mounts, so there may be slight nuisances in my answers which are wrong, but I am sure others won't be shy in correcting my errors - this is the joy of such a large and diverse forum like this.

 

1)    Why is there a necessity to ensure the mount is facing the correct direction when setting up the scope?

The right ascension (RA) axis of your mount needs to be aligned with the axis around which the Earth rotates - this is called polar aligning... In essence, you need to look through the polar scope and point it at Polaris (image attached). You don't have to polar align your scope but if you don't, it won't track celestial objects well, or at all.

Some pedants (any boy there are plenty around in the world of astronomy) will say polar alignment is an all or nothing technique - one has the mount polar aligned or not, but in my version of reality there is a continuum. It is possible to be "roughly" polar aligned, or "very tightly" polar aligned, or not at all polar aligned. As you get your polar alignment tighter and tighter, the tracking accuracy of your mount gets better and better. If you just want to do a spot of visual observing of say the Moon and are happy to keep using the handset to make corrections, then you might be content with a very rough and ready polar alignment; if you want to achieve 5 minute unguided astrophotography exposures with a telescope with a focal length of 5000m then you need the tightest possible polar alignment. As is probably obvious, the tighter one wants the polar alignment, the more time it takes. I'd start about at the bottom of the ladder; get used to a rough and ready alignment and take little steps to get this tighter and tighter.

So, your mount needs to point north so you can essentially look through the polar scope and align it on Polaris (actually on the North Celestial Pole (BCP), but that is a lecture for another day).

 

2)    I’ve heard similar comments made with regard to members permanent piers in their observatories, again, what is being referred to here and how would you ensure a circular steel pier IS facing a correct direction?

To be honest, I would get to grips with the equatorial mount before worrying about a pier.

However, generally the pier itself is just a column sticking out of the ground, perpendicular to the polar axis of the Earth. It doesn't matter which way the pier is facing, but the bits at the top of the pier, depending on what sort of pier you buy or make, need to allow the mount you subsequently attach to it points north.

 

 
3)    Does the peg on the tripod Base plate need to be directly over one of the legs or is it fine where it is positioned? (In between two legs)

The peg just needs to be at the north side of the tripod so that when you put the mount head on the tripod the polar scope is pointing towards the north. Some people move the peg (if the peg can be moved) to position it over one leg so that you always know to put this leg pointing towards the north. The other consideration is that if the peg is currently between two legs, when the scope is in the home position (see image) you will have a leg pointing due south and this may annoy you when trying to look through the polar scope to polar align the mount.

Home position = weights down, scope up. You want the telescope roughly pointing in the same direction as the RA axis (polar axis), and you want the weights pointing straight down. Don't worry for now if when you look through the telescope you can't see Polaris in the field of view, especially if you have a scope with a long focal length.

 

 
4)    Is there anything I should do during daylight hours other than align the (finderscope) in preparation for the alignment process?

Yes, align the axis of your polar scope to the RA axis of the mount... I wrote a bit about this elsewhere on SLG:

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/285760-azeq6-polarscope-goto-issues/?do=findComment&comment=3130431

 
5)    Do I need to update my mount with the latest firmware (?) Software upgrade or can I assume as I bought it 3 weeks ago it will come up to date?

Even though you only got the kit 3 weeks ago, it might have been sitting in a warehouse in a box for 3 years during which time several firmware updates may have been released. There will be an option in the handset where it tells you what versions you have; the Skywatcher handset gives "version information"  and there is information about:

- handset hardware (not updateable unless you buy a new handset)

- handset firmware (this is updatable)

- database (this is updateable but seldom is updated)

- motor controller firmware (this will only display if you have the handset connected to the mount, and is updateable)

The Celestron site appears to be here, so you'll have to see what versions of the firmware you have and compare that: http://www.celestron.com/support/manuals-software/files?KnowledgebaseCategory=28461

Some firmware updates are useful, others generate new problems. Again, I would suggest for now that you just use what you've got and worry about this down the line.

 
6)    HOW do I update my firmware software?

See my answer to 5. I'd put this to the low priority list for now.

 
7)    How accurate does the declination need to be? Can I work off the (slightly crude) scale on the mong or should I be looking at getting a digital spirit level for accuracy?

This is where you need to start thinking about the celestial sphere and why aligning the RA axis of your mount to the polar axis of the Earth makes an equatorial mount special. I'd recommend reading the first few chapters of this book: https://www.amazon.ca/Astronomy-Explained-Gerald-North/dp/3540761365

When you are polar aligning, you will adjust the altitude of the mount to get it all perfectly aligned. If you want a rough and ready polar alignment, just set the pointer on the scale to your local latitude, this will be sufficient for the rough and ready polar alignment for now, but you need to appreciate that your tracking won't be great.

 
8)    With vibration in mind, until I sort out a permanent pier my scope will be on the tripod in the observatory, should I allow the tripod legs to stand on the soft flooring foam tiles or should it be on the wooden floor of the shed?

Unless you are going to do a very tight polar alignment and aim to do astrophotography, I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about vibration for now, personally.

 
9)    Do I need to worry about leaving my spanking new scope and mount exposed to the elements, all be it under a waterproof bike cover in the obs and secure? Slightly nervous ?

Two main things here:

a. I wouldn't leave the scope exposed to any moisture.

b. security is the bigger issue - will anything get stolen, and if so have you taken ample measures to appease the insurance company that you complied with the small print, else they won't pay out in the event of a claim.

I have left my mount outside for prolonged periods in the garden under a couple of layers of water proof coverings without problem.

 

James

 

sgl support.pdf

[JonC]

Really good guide from jambouk. Only things I would add would be to run through the alignment process in daylight, that way you have an idea whats next in the menus, also triple check the format for date/time and location, I use an app on my phone for this (think its only for skywatcher synscan, its called syscanit).

You could also get your finder scope aligned in daylight, then fine tune on a star. Work out where you want your kit to be and get a chair and table in place, and figure out where any cables or a battery will be. I tend to put any power related stuff in a box or on a bit of wood to keep them off the grass.

 

And have fun! I had first light with my refractor last weekend, also had family around, it was a magic evening.

[PeterCPC]

If you are doing an ASPA, make sure you follow the instructions precisely or it will not work. If you get an error of 00.00.00 you have done something wrong.

Peter

[Astro Imp]

You don't say what you intend to do, visual or imaging. If the former a rough polar alignment is sufficient but for imaging the closer the better.

[John]

You have had some good replies already so I will only add a couple of things from my recent experiences with an AVX:

- Putting the N axis over a leg rather than between them can add more stability when loading and unloading the mount I found. Plus I found having a "N leg" made rough alignment quick. I didn't use the GOTO features, I just wanted a driven mount, not permanently mounted and easy and quick to set up.

- If you have a polar scope it's very difficult to view through without putting a right angle attachment on it because one of the alt knobs gets in the way !. I didn't use the scope in the end, just aligned Polaris through the axis, which was good enough for my purposes but would not have suited a heavy GOTO user or imager at all.

 

[Adaaam75]

15 hours ago, jambouk said:

I have only ever owned Skywatcher mounts, so there may be slight nuisances in my answers which are wrong, but I am sure others won't be shy in correcting my errors - this is the joy of such a large and diverse forum like this.

 

1)    Why is there a necessity to ensure the mount is facing the correct direction when setting up the scope?

The right ascension (RA) axis of your mount needs to be aligned with the axis around which the Earth rotates - this is called polar aligning... In essence, you need to look through the polar scope and point it at Polaris (image attached). You don't have to polar align your scope but if you don't, it won't track celestial objects well, or at all.

Some pedants (any boy there are plenty around in the world of astronomy) will say polar alignment is an all or nothing technique - one has the mount polar aligned or not, but in my version of reality there is a continuum. It is possible to be "roughly" polar aligned, or "very tightly" polar aligned, or not at all polar aligned. As you get your polar alignment tighter and tighter, the tracking accuracy of your mount gets better and better. If you just want to do a spot of visual observing of say the Moon and are happy to keep using the handset to make corrections, then you might be content with a very rough and ready polar alignment; if you want to achieve 5 minute unguided astrophotography exposures with a telescope with a focal length of 5000m then you need the tightest possible polar alignment. As is probably obvious, the tighter one wants the polar alignment, the more time it takes. I'd start about at the bottom of the ladder; get used to a rough and ready alignment and take little steps to get this tighter and tighter.

So, your mount needs to point north so you can essentially look through the polar scope and align it on Polaris (actually on the North Celestial Pole (BCP), but that is a lecture for another day).

 

2)    I’ve heard similar comments made with regard to members permanent piers in their observatories, again, what is being referred to here and how would you ensure a circular steel pier IS facing a correct direction?

To be honest, I would get to grips with the equatorial mount before worrying about a pier.

However, generally the pier itself is just a column sticking out of the ground, perpendicular to the polar axis of the Earth. It doesn't matter which way the pier is facing, but the bits at the top of the pier, depending on what sort of pier you buy or make, need to allow the mount you subsequently attach to it points north.

 

 
3)    Does the peg on the tripod Base plate need to be directly over one of the legs or is it fine where it is positioned? (In between two legs)

The peg just needs to be at the north side of the tripod so that when you put the mount head on the tripod the polar scope is pointing towards the north. Some people move the peg (if the peg can be moved) to position it over one leg so that you always know to put this leg pointing towards the north. The other consideration is that if the peg is currently between two legs, when the scope is in the home position (see image) you will have a leg pointing due south and this may annoy you when trying to look through the polar scope to polar align the mount.

Home position = weights down, scope up. You want the telescope roughly pointing in the same direction as the RA axis (polar axis), and you want the weights pointing straight down. Don't worry for now if when you look through the telescope you can't see Polaris in the field of view, especially if you have a scope with a long focal length.

 

 
4)    Is there anything I should do during daylight hours other than align the (finderscope) in preparation for the alignment process?

Yes, align the axis of your polar scope to the RA axis of the mount... I wrote a bit about this elsewhere on SLG:

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/285760-azeq6-polarscope-goto-issues/?do=findComment&comment=3130431

 
5)    Do I need to update my mount with the latest firmware (?) Software upgrade or can I assume as I bought it 3 weeks ago it will come up to date?

Even though you only got the kit 3 weeks ago, it might have been sitting in a warehouse in a box for 3 years during which time several firmware updates may have been released. There will be an option in the handset where it tells you what versions you have; the Skywatcher handset gives "version information"  and there is information about:

- handset hardware (not updateable unless you buy a new handset)

- handset firmware (this is updatable)

- database (this is updateable but seldom is updated)

- motor controller firmware (this will only display if you have the handset connected to the mount, and is updateable)

The Celestron site appears to be here, so you'll have to see what versions of the firmware you have and compare that: http://www.celestron.com/support/manuals-software/files?KnowledgebaseCategory=28461

Some firmware updates are useful, others generate new problems. Again, I would suggest for now that you just use what you've got and worry about this down the line.

 
6)    HOW do I update my firmware software?

See my answer to 5. I'd put this to the low priority list for now.

 
7)    How accurate does the declination need to be? Can I work off the (slightly crude) scale on the mong or should I be looking at getting a digital spirit level for accuracy?

This is where you need to start thinking about the celestial sphere and why aligning the RA axis of your mount to the polar axis of the Earth makes an equatorial mount special. I'd recommend reading the first few chapters of this book: https://www.amazon.ca/Astronomy-Explained-Gerald-North/dp/3540761365

When you are polar aligning, you will adjust the altitude of the mount to get it all perfectly aligned. If you want a rough and ready polar alignment, just set the pointer on the scale to your local latitude, this will be sufficient for the rough and ready polar alignment for now, but you need to appreciate that your tracking won't be great.

 
8)    With vibration in mind, until I sort out a permanent pier my scope will be on the tripod in the observatory, should I allow the tripod legs to stand on the soft flooring foam tiles or should it be on the wooden floor of the shed?

Unless you are going to do a very tight polar alignment and aim to do astrophotography, I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about vibration for now, personally.

 
9)    Do I need to worry about leaving my spanking new scope and mount exposed to the elements, all be it under a waterproof bike cover in the obs and secure? Slightly nervous ?

Two main things here:

a. I wouldn't leave the scope exposed to any moisture.

b. security is the bigger issue - will anything get stolen, and if so have you taken ample measures to appease the insurance company that you complied with the small print, else they won't pay out in the event of a claim.

I have left my mount outside for prolonged periods in the garden under a couple of layers of water proof coverings without problem.

 

James

 

sgl support.pdf

James, extremely helpful advice and I'd have been guessing without your assistance. Thank you for your time in answering.

[jambouk]

Well it took me an hour; you haven't had the bill yet

[Adaaam75]

13 hours ago, JonC said:

Really good guide from jambouk. Only things I would add would be to run through the alignment process in daylight, that way you have an idea whats next in the menus, also triple check the format for date/time and location, I use an app on my phone for this (think its only for skywatcher synscan, its called syscanit).

You could also get your finder scope aligned in daylight, then fine tune on a star. Work out where you want your kit to be and get a chair and table in place, and figure out where any cables or a battery will be. I tend to put any power related stuff in a box or on a bit of wood to keep them off the grass.

 

And have fun! I had first light with my refractor last weekend, also had family around, it was a magic evening.

Jon thanks again to you for your sound tips. Again things I'd not thought of!

[Adaaam75]

11 hours ago, Astro Imp said:

You don't say what you intend to do, visual or imaging. If the former a rough polar alignment is sufficient but for imaging the closer the better.

Visual mate for now with some DSLR/Webcam mount tracking at some point..

[Adaaam75]

3 minutes ago, jambouk said:

Well it took me an hour; you haven't had the bill yet

An hour of your valuable time that saved me many of frustration!