New Bresser 90mm f/13.3 - Unboxing and initial thoughts

[Chris]

Bresser announced a new mini range of two classic long focus achromatic refractors in 2016, a 90/1200 and a 102/1350, so both in the F/13 range which is something not often seen now days. So as an appreciator of the classic refractor I've kept my ear to the ground awaiting their release until they appeared on the Bresser site for sale last week. The two scopes are priced at 159 and 259 Euros respectively.

I have previously owned Bresser's AR127L, a 5" f/9.4 refractor which was excellent both in build and optical quality, so I was excited about this new line of scopes which could potentially result in ED glass performance owing to the long focal length, at a fraction of the price..... and with good build quality and classic looks!

I did try for about a day not to buy one, but of course soon gave in and chose the 90/1200. I considered the 102/1350 but I don't have a mount suitable. I currently have an EQ3 which I can beef up with an EQ5 steel tripod and pier extension but this is still a 'make do' mount for the smaller of the two 90/1200.

I placed my order and the scope was shipped the same day and arrived 4/5 days later, so very pleased with the service by Bresser.

Here are some unboxing pictures to begin with:  

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by Chris Lock

[Chris]

As can be seen from the first objective lens pic, the optics appeared to be stopped down! I had to have a closer look and remove the dew shield to see they were not, it must just be an optical illusion with the dew shield in place! The objective is listed as being multi coated but the coatings must be thin, I can't really see them can anyone else?? Not a biggy though, the old classic refractors of the day were either non coated or single coated, so maybe not being able to detect the coatings just ads to the classic charm  

I'll assume that the coatings are there and that I just can't see them. As can be seen as well, it's pretty dark in that tube which can only be a good thing for contrast!

Edited April 12, 2017 by Chris Lock

[Stu]

Long, isn't it? Look like a proper scope.

The coatings aren't obvious, but I guess they just don't have much colour to them? I'm not an expert on coatings though so sure someone else will comment more knowledgeably!

[John]

Interesting to see that they have gone for a tube clamp on such a long tube.

The coatings on my Vixen ED102SS are not that obvious either.

It's going to look good when it's mounted up

 

[Chris]

Now, I'm not going to lie I'm a bit disapointed in the build quality, there is plastic everywhere!  I just assumed after owning Bresser's AR127L that these new scopes would use a metal focuser and metal tube rings etc but unfortunately this doesn't appear to be the case. 

I can live with the plastic focuser and finder bracket etc but the most alarming thing to me is that this 1200mm focal length scope is expected to be held on a mount with a plastic clam shell. I have looked at it very carefully and have even emailed Bresser to ask, but I do believe it is actually plastic and not metal, it feels warm and when you tap it it sounds like plastic, and it feels like plastic, so I'm guessing I'm not wrong. No reply from Bresser yet to 100% confirm. 

I fear for the OTA long term, plastic perishes! Also it flexes and this is a looong tube!

 

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by Chris Lock

[xtreemchaos]

oh i do like a nice bresser, f13 too, carnt wait for your 1st light report. well done mate, charl, ps i know where all this cloud has come from ..

[John]

At least bought new ........ it can always go back

 

[Chris]

9 minutes ago, Stu said:

Long, isn't it? Look like a proper scope.

The coatings aren't obvious, but I guess they just don't have much colour to them? I'm not an expert on coatings though so sure someone else will comment more knowledgeably!

Hi Stu, yes I'm sure they are there, just that I'm not used to not being able to see them....still it makes it look even more classic! 

[Chris]

6 minutes ago, John said:

Interesting to see that they have gone for a tube clamp on such a long tube.

The coatings on my Vixen ED102SS are not that obvious either.

It's going to look good when it's mounted up

 

Yes John, I did see this on the pics before buying and accepted it, but I wouldn't have guessed it would be a plastic clamp. A scope this long should really be sold with metal rings if you ask me. Bresser if you're listening stick metal rings on it and just ad the cost to the scope, no one want's a plastic clamp on a scope this long do they!?

[Seafury]

Hi Chris the 102 looks like all metal from the photos ,perhaps you should swap for one of those

 

Gordon

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Plastic can be sturdy enough, but I do feel they put a very short clamshell on it. For a long tube like this I would certainly prefer tube rings on a long, sturdy dovetail bar.

[John]

I'm surprised that the clamp is plastic as well as being rather short. I think a conventional tube ring / dovetail bar arrangement would have been more approprate.

You would think that the dealers who saw the early examples back in the Autumn last year would have mentioned this to Bresser

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by John

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Just thinking that a scope like this combined with a 2x tele-centric lens (like a PowerMate) would be almost perfect for solar imaging with the Solar Spectrum filter I have. Wouldn't want a plastic focuser then, especially given the length of the whole tele-centric + filter assembly. It could be excellent in Ca-K, because it would show reduced spherical aberration. Again. plastic in a solar scope only works with a suitable energy rejection filter!

[alacant]

Hi. The 102/13.5 has the 2 1/2" (metal) focuser and what looks like a proper dovetail. Dunno, if you're not satisfied you could always upgrade. Bresser are great when it comes to customer service; you get to speak with someone who knows about telescopes. Just a thought.

Edit: talking of sublime refractors, they've also just released a 102ed f4.5. Around €260.

Edited April 12, 2017 by alacant

[Seafury]

you could always go for this one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNITRON-POLAREX-REFRACTOR-Circa-1965-AMAZINGLY-FINE-CONDITION-/272625902837?hash=item3f79c524f5:g:v7MAAOSwls5Y65MD

[Mark at Beaufort]

Chris thanks for providing the photos plus your initial opinion. Looking at the photos of the 90mm and the 102mm it does appear that the latter has a different dovetail and focuser. However, I am interested in your first light if you keep the 90mm. In particular how well it splits doubles and the view you get on Jupiter.

[John]

46 minutes ago, alacant said:

..Edit: talking of sublime refractors, they've also just released a 102ed f4.5. Around €260.

It might use ED glass but I don't think it's going to deliver what we would normally expect of an ED doublet in terms of CA correction. Bresser class it as an achromatic refractor and a rich field scope.

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by John

[Starlight 1]

Well I have a look at the weekend when I come over to pick one up from you.

[Rob]

Congrats!.. looks nice. I also cant wait to read your first light report. I would also swap to rings for sure

[Ricochet]

2 hours ago, Chris Lock said:

Now, I'm not going to lie I'm a bit disapointed in the build quality, there is plastic everywhere!  I just assumed after owning Bresser's AR127L that these new scopes would use a metal focuser and metal tube rings etc but unfortunately this doesn't appear to be the case. 

I can live with the plastic focuser and finder bracket etc but the most alarming thing to me is that this 1200mm focal length scope is expected to be held on a mount with a plastic clam shell. I have looked at it very carefully and have even emailed Bresser to ask, but I do believe it is actually plastic and not metal, it feels warm and when you tap it it sounds like plastic, and it feels like plastic, so I'm guessing I'm not wrong. No reply from Bresser yet to 100% confirm. 

I fear for the OTA long term, plastic perishes! Also it flexes and this is a looong tube!

 

 

Plastic!! I'd noticed the 90mm fracs all come with a different focuser but never realised it or the tube clamp was plastic. They really should be putting sturdier parts on the" Messier" product line I think. 

2 hours ago, alacant said:

Bresser are great when it comes to customer service; you get to speak with someone who knows about telescopes. 

Do you? When I emailed them with feedback on aspects of their dob design that could be improved the sound of silence was deafening. 

[RobertI]

My that is a long scope!  Hope you get a satisfactory response from Bresser, watching with interest.

[Paul73]

Bresser do seem to ramp up the quality as soon as you hit the 100mm mark. Same in the F10 range, but there is a €100 price difference..

I was considering the F10 90mm for a PST  donor scope, but bailed due to quality. The 102mm is a bit pricy to take a hack saw to!

Paul

[nightfisher]

Send it back........get a 102 skymax F13, cracking scope for not a lot of money

[John]

11 minutes ago, Paul73 said:

Bresser do seem to ramp up the quality as soon as you hit the 100mm mark....

Bit late for Chris

I owned a Bresser 127L and that was a pretty good scope optically. The focuser was functional but did it's job. The objective counter cell was plastic but the cell that actually held the objective was metal.

The quality was the same as the Meade AR5 / AR6 (very near identical in fact) so not bad but still room for improvement.

 

 

[Chris]

Sorry guys, work intervened but I'm back now so will continue and answer comments after  

So, first light was last night! I didn't have my EQ3 mount head setup on the more heavy duty tripod and pier extension so grabbed the EQ3 with the ali tripod as was. I knew it would be wobbly but I was kind of curious so went with it. The tube is very light indeed owing to all the plastic so it was easy to balance the scope with a small counter weight. I left the scope to cool for ten or so minutes, attached the plastic finder, inserted the chromed plastic barrel of the diagonal into the plastic focuser (but at least the drawer tube was metal), then set about observing Jupiter whilst I waited for the Moon to clear the neighbours house. 

The scope comes with a nice looking 26mm Plossl, but I left that in the packaging and instead opted for my 25mm plossl to initially aid with aligning the finder and finding Jupiter. I then switched to the 15mm Plossl giving me an initial 80x to work with. Focus was easy enough despite the mount wobbles, I think the scope being f/13.3 both helped create the wobbles then made focus easier depsite the wobbles! The focuser is smooth and with only a small amount of backlash and slop, I was quite impressed with it in that respect! I needed to rack the focuser way out maybe 5-6" to achieve focus which added to the already very long scope. I would say the focuser is only suitable for the lightest of eyepieces owing to the the drawer tube needing to be racked out far, and the general build and materials used for focuser.   

The observing conditions weren't great with Jupiter being low down and veiled in a transparent layer of cloud, so I thought whatever I see I know the scope will be capable of more. At 80 times I was presented with a well defined Jovian disc with some prominent banding, 3 Moons strung out to one side and one far out on the other side. All of this was contained in the field of view, and the Moons remained as sharp little orbs close to the edge of the eyepiece. I would therefore guess spherical aberration was low and not a problem with this scope. There was not any chromatic aberration to speak of at 80x that I remember and I'm quite sensitive to this.

I switched to my 12mm Plossl giving me 100x, I thought about using the 9mm but just felt that the conditions were just too poor even for 134x. The disc remained nice and sharp at 100x, but the seeing was sometimes giving slight blurring, not enough to kill the detail as I could constantly see 5 separate belts stretching pole to pole. I didn't have enough mag/aperture/resolution? to see any barges or festoons etc, but what I could see was fairly constant, I should have probably tried the 9mm but instead moved onto the Moon as it cleared the adjacent house!

The Moon was shining nearly full through thin cloud like in a Werewolf movie so I wasn't expecting much other than a good bright test of chromatic aberration! I started off back with the 25mm Plossl giving 48x, and a nice bright Moon filled the field of view. Really nice crispy detail despite the conditions, and only the odd flicker of purple on one side of the Moon that seemed to come and go. Moving upto the 12mm and centering the eyepiece on the limb to really look for chromatic aberration I could still only see a small amount that would appear to come and go. I would say CA was very well controlled for an achromat. At this point I really needed to call it a night and pack everything away.

Not a thorough test by any means. I probably should have hunted down one or two doubles then cranked up the mag a bit, but I was always aware that the conditions just wouldn't allow a fair test. Still, I'm very impressed optically considering the conditions.

I'm very very conflicted about this scope. The build quality really isn't there, it kind of feels a bit 'department store' like with all the plastic components - Most of the focuser and the finder are plastic, as is all of the diagonal, the lens cell looks to be plastic, and unbelievably the clam shell clamp securing this very long scope to a mount seems to be plastic! The only bits that I can confirm that are metal are the OTA tube, dew shield, and the focuser drawer tube....what else....err, oh yeah some of the finder tube I think? Then on the flip side this very cheap feeling scope has already put up good views in poor conditions!    

Here's some pics while I go sleep on what to do with this scope? Probably not the best scope with an Herschel wedge, bit's might melt! I'll read and reply to comments in the morning, thanks.