Moravian G2-8300 vs QSI 683

[tomato]

Sorry to labour this topic but I am getting very close to pressing the button on this one.

There seems general agreement that if the budget can stand it then go with the QSI 683.

However, the price delta between the two cameras (both with integral filter wheels) isn't trivial, around  £1200 looking at the cameras on IKI and 365Astronomy websites? That's halfway towards a 10" RC, (the next phase of my upgrade) so my question is the QSI £1200 better than the Moravian?

I know the filters will be a bit cheaper for the QSI but not by a huge amount.

[Adam J]

Erm it would have to be vastly better to make it worth 1200 more...in the end its the same chip I strongly suspect that its not that much better if at all.

If i was going to pay that kinda money i would not be getting a KAF8300 i would be looking at the newer KAF16200 based cameras.

 

[swag72]

I run both the G2-8300 and the QSI 683...... My first question is if you are looking at the integrated filter wheel for the Moravian why will the filters be more expensive? I use 1.25" mounted filters in both and there's absolutely no problem...... nothing that decent flats won't remove.

Is the QSI worth the extra money over the Moravian? I think it depends. If I was only running one rig then yes I'd get the QSI.

1. Don't underestimate the 8 position carousel so that you never have to open the camera up.... the Moravian integrated wheel is only 5 positions, so if you want a full set of LRGB and NB filters in it, then forget it. 
2. The built in OAG on the QSI makes it about as plug and play as you can get. The Lodestar screws directly in and once focused and rotated then it just works. IKI sells the correct spacing adapter for the QSI and Tak's at least (I don't know about anything else) so there is NO faffing around with spacing. The Moravian doesn't have a built in OAG, you have to buy it separate and screw it into the imaging train. That means that you'll have to work out spacing (unless someone has a bespoke adapter made)......... to me that's worth some ££'s.

Build quality - I'd say that the QSI just noses it, but not by enough to make a difference. The cooling is slightly better on the QSI, but again nothing of importance. 

Don't be put off by the KAF8300 chip - It is really is good despite many people saying that it's long in the tooth etc. If I had a bottomless pit of money and could afford the larger KAF16200 then sure I would, but that would involve new filters and probably new scopes as I don't think they'd cover the sensor size. I've learnt that astro certainly does involve compromises for people who are not millionaires!! 

[MrsGnomus]

1 hour ago, swag72 said:

The Moravian doesn't have a built in OAG, you have to buy it separate and screw it into the imaging train. That means that you'll have to work out spacing (unless someone has a bespoke adapter made)......... to me that's worth some ££'s.

The Moravian OAG is designed to give 55mm spacing when used with a Moravian camera and filter wheel - it comes with a spacer which is left in place if you have the internal filter wheel or is removed if you have the external one.  There is now a new smaller external wheel with I think 7 spaces for filters it may be less elegant than an internal wheel or the QSI but it is worth considering.

The Moravian only needs a single USB and single power supply even with the external wheel. Ours came ready assembled including the OAG from Zoltan at 365. There is a one off filter wheel set up utility that needs running but other than that it is pretty straightforward 

Edited April 12, 2017 by MrsGnomus

[tomato]

Thanks for the replies.

I do take the point about having all the required filters in a single wheel to avoid repeated changes.

Which ever way you cut it, that £1200-1300 differential remains, which is a 50% contribution towards my next scope. Looks like I'm going with the Moravian.....

 

[swag72]

5 minutes ago, tomato said:

..... Looks like I'm going with the Moravian.....

 

I don't for one minute think you'll regret it ..... there's nothing wrong with it at all and other than the things I said, which would be a deal breaker for me, it performs equally to the QSI for sure.

[tomato]

Thanks Sara, 

I'm really looking forward to the bigger FOV and the increased sensitivity that will come from a mono CCD.

Steve

[ollypenrice]

One of our robotic scope owners has just installed a large format Moravian and it looks very convincing.

Olly

[gnomus]

21 hours ago, tomato said:

Thanks for the replies.

I do take the point about having all the required filters in a single wheel to avoid repeated changes.

...

 

Yes - that would be a deal-breaker for me, but if you get a 7 or larger position Moravian wheel, you won't need to do this.  And it is still only one power cable and one USB.  If you speak to Zoltan he will sort you out.  I do wonder if the website is misleading on this point because we almost declined the Moravian because we thought it only had a 5 position wheel.  

Edited April 13, 2017 by gnomus

[Davey-T]

On 12/04/2017 at 01:13, Adam J said:

Erm it would have to be vastly better to make it worth 1200 more...in the end its the same chip I strongly suspect that its not that much better if at all.

If i was going to pay that kinda money i would not be getting a KAF8300 i would be looking at the newer KAF16200 based cameras.

 

Probably need 2" filters for it 

Dave

[DaveS]

And have you seen how much 2" 3nm Astrodons are   ?

[ollypenrice]

2 hours ago, DaveS said:

And have you seen how much 2" 3nm Astrodons are   ?

Yes.

But, thank God, Monique hasn't...

lly

PS, Seriously, filters really do start to get expensive in large sizes. The absolute killers are the square ones for the 36X36 chips. If you decide to look (and I wouldn't!) do so while sitting down.

[Davey-T]

Bit worrying when a filter costs more than the scope 

Dave

[DaveS]

23 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

Yes.

But, thank God, Monique hasn't...

lly

PS, Seriously, filters really do start to get expensive in large sizes. The absolute killers are the square ones for the 36X36 chips. If you decide to look (and I wouldn't!) do so while sitting down.

I *have* seen how much the 50mm square 3nm Astrodons are   . I went cross-eyed for a bit. Fortunately I *was* sitting down at the time.

[tomato]

Don't scare me guys, I only want 1.25"LRGB for now, keep this up and I'll stick to OSC

[DaveS]

If you stick with Baader NB it shouldn't be too frightening, even going up to 36mm.

Astrodons are the Rolls Royce of filters, even their LRGBs are , and the 3nm NB are truly scary, esp in the larger sizes.

[Adam J]

On 13/04/2017 at 10:58, Davey-T said:

Probably need 2" filters for it 

Dave

I have 2inch filters anyway to it would definitely be the way to go for me.....if I was looking in the 3k price range at any rate. But in general I would say that if you are put off by 450pounds for the baader 2 inch filter set then I don't know why you would be considering such an expensive camera in the first place.

[Davey-T]

1 hour ago, Adam J said:

I have 2inch filters anyway to it would definitely be the way to go for me.....if I was looking in the 3k price range at any rate. But in general I would say that if you are put off by 450pounds for the baader 2 inch filter set then I don't know why you would be considering such an expensive camera in the first place.

Nobody was considering a KAF16200, that was your idea 

I'd be put off by over a £1000.00 for a 2" Astrodon NB filter.

Dave

[Adam J]

2 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

Nobody was considering a KAF16200, that was your idea 

I'd be put off by over a £1000.00 for a 2" Astrodon NB filter.

Dave

Huum I would not pay that for filters, I would probably get the 3.5nm Baader filters....

and ill stand by it, if your going to spend over 3k on a camera I would not be buying one with a KAF8300 in it.

[swag72]

8 hours ago, Adam J said:

.....and ill stand by it, if your going to spend over 3k on a camera I would not be buying one with a KAF8300 in it.

Horses for courses...... I would still spend over £3k on a KAF8300  

[gnomus]

2 hours ago, swag72 said:

Horses for courses...... I would still spend over £3k on a KAF8300  

If I were buying a CCD camera for astro work today, I still think that there is very little to touch the KAF8300.  I am struggling to understand the antipathy.

[Adam J]

17 hours ago, gnomus said:

If I were buying a CCD camera for astro work today, I still think that there is very little to touch the KAF8300.  I am struggling to understand the antipathy.

The point was not really to do with the KAF8300, more to do with the QSI having a price point that places it along side larger format sensors. I was merely pointing out to the OP that if you are willing to spend that kind of money then there are other options also worthy of consideration.

[steviemac500]

My tuppence worth, I have recently moved up to the Moravian and it's excellent. That's all. ?

[tomato]

A Moravian G2-8300 and filters are on order, it will no doubt turn up just as the astro darkness has disappeared from these parts.......?

The Moravian SIPS software looks interesting, does anybody use it extensively or, as I suspect, do most people use one of the integrated control packages? I've got by with Artemis capture to date but will need to use something different when the camera arrives. I think a new thread is in order...

[gnomus]

I too am waiting for a Moravian G2-8300.  My astro dark ended on Sunday (and I think I may be south of you).  You can try some NB during nautical dark.

I had a look at SIPS, but I had already bought SGP.  I'd strongly recommend that you take a look at that if you have not already done so.  It has its various wrinkles, but it seems to me to be the easiest program to set up and get running.  I had a trial of that Maxim DL for a bit .....  My reaction to that would be filtered out if I posted it.....