Another newbie needing help...

[Cuke]

Hello all, complete newbie here looking for some advice from you lovely people!

My wife and I have been mulling over getting a telescope for the last year or so and we've now decided to take the plunge. We've got a budge of approx £400 and having done our own research we've currently got the Sky-Watcher Star Discovery 150P at the top of our list as it seems to tick all our boxes. I know (from reading around) that some people find the Go-to system a bit 'cheaty' but we're new at this so quite honestly we're more likely so enjoy ourselves at first if we don't spend hours lost poking around the sky like crazy people hunting for what we want to see (and as I saw someone else say 'the best telescope for you is the one you'll use the most').

So basically my question is, is this as good a telescope for beginners on our budget as it sounds or are there any other options (baring in mind our preference for some kind of Go-to system) that we should investigate?

Also, because why ask one question when I can cram in a second, I know that something else we'd love to do is use our scope along with a DSLR to take pictures... Now I know that's an expensive rabbit warren to start down if you want to do it properly and I'm not looking for ways to produce Hubble quality shots or anything, I just want the option of taking some pictures of the kind of things we'll be seeing through our scope without getting too bogged down in them being 'perfect'. Having researched it all a bit there seems to be some issues around getting a DSLR to focus on the Sky-Watcher Star Discovery 150P, but then there's also a YouTube video out there of some frankly beautiful shots taken using that scope so I'm a little confused... I'm not expecting to get the thing out the box, whack a camera body on it and start snapping, I'm happy to have to buy a few bits and bobs in the way of attachments etc down the line to enable it to all work etc. I guess I just don't want to invest in the Sky-Watcher Star Discovery 150P and then find out in down the line that there's just no way of getting a camera to work with it at all....

 

Hope that all makes sense and any help will be gratefully appreciated...

 

 

[JOC]

Hello Cuke, FWIW I have it's big brother a 200P FlexTube Goto and yes, you can take basic pictures of what you see as the tracking allows for exposures of around 30 seconds when you get it set up.  There is no way you will equal the dedicated imagers, but with my unmodded DSLR I am happy with what is possible - you will get some great shots of the moon!  NB.  You will need to buy a T ring for the DSLR - around a tenner on ebay.

[billyharris72]

Hi Cuke:

I'd say it looks like an excellent all round beginner's scope for mostly visual astronomy. It has good optics, decent aperture and goto capability.

The one thing I would advise is get a star atlas and practice at first without the goto. You will need to align the goto by slewing the scope to specific stars, and you need to learn where these are to do that. So practicing manually for the first few sessions will get you acquainted with some of the brightest stars in the sky (all you will need for alignment) and get you used to moving the scope around. Without doing this, the process of aligning a goto scope can seem quite intimidating at first (though it really is not and you'll quickly get the hang of it).

This is not a great scope for astrophotography. For one thing, a DSLR will struggle to reach focus though depending on model it might do (Nikons almost certainly won't given the deep recessing of their sensor; I think Canons may be a bit more forgiving). One fix is to use the eyepiece projection method (FLO sells an eyepiece projection fitting, I think). A barlow can also fix this (though it makes the needed exposure time much longer, which is a problem given what I'm about to say next).

The other (and more significant) issue is the lack of an equatorial mount. For long exposures, you need an equatorial mount, accurately aligned with the celestial pole. These are expensive and trickier to set up and use than the alt-azimuth type of mount, and are typically not recommended for beginners. You should be able to get away with stacking short exposures to capture the brightest DSOs (e.g. Orion Nebula, Pleiades), so don't be put off trying, but you will always be limited (see the no-EQ DSO challenge on here for what can be achieved though - a lot of it is very good). For lunar and planetary this is not an issue (though for imaging planets you probably want to go with a webcam due to sensor size and the ability to capture and stack lots of images).

Hope this is some help.

Billy.

[Astro Imp]

Keep in mind you need to factor in the price of some sort of power supply, using AA batteries severely compromises the GOTO function.

[skywatcher58gb]

Hi Cuke and welcome to the forum

In answer to your question on point 1, this would seem a decent scope for a beginner, reasonable aperture to see quite a range of objects visually. GoTo to find a good variety of subjects both planetary and deep sky. However point 2 as an instrument for photography it has limitations, you will be able to take the moon with a DSLR and planets using a webcam, because the weak point is the mount for taking deep sky objects with your DSLR as it is an alt alz configuration. This means that the tracking is a series of side ways and upward steps which is OK visually but not for photography, any images taken will have to be very short duration. To do DSLR photography properly especially on deep sky objects such as nebula and galaxies you would need an equatorial mount, this tracks the sky in an arc which compensates for what is called field rotation. It would be interesting to note if the images you have seen using this scope have been done by placing this tube assembly on an equatorial mount, I say this because the tube assembly itself 150mm at f5 is quite a decent imaging unit but placed on a more appropriate mount should yield good results.

I would take time to investigate the scope and read up more about equatorial and alt az mounts before you make a final decision.

[Cuke]

Thanks for the feedback people, sounds like I may have to have a bit of rethink...

After a bit of further research I've found that the only way the person behind the YouTube video I saw got the images he got was by doing a warranty voiding 'alteration' to the telescope meaning, I assume, the focus issues with that scope and DSLR's aren't solvable using regular means so even with the right mount it wouldn't make it a great choice with one eye on future photography.... So, is there a different 'starter' scope that may be a better pick, even with an Alt-alz Go-to style mount for now, as I'm assuming an equatorial mount is beyond my current price range?

For example this Skywatcher Explorer 150P with the Go-to mount option, at £560 it's over budget but at least its design to connect to a DSLR which may make it more future proof for my needs?

 

 

[Dave In Vermont]

As you're just starting out, what I'd do is forget about an Alt.Az  as you linked to for - if astro-photography is something you wish to do. If you can be visual use only - at least for now - The 150mm SW GoTo would be a nice scope to start out with. And it would be capable of taking pictures of the Moon & Planets - or other bright objects.

Going into astro-photography (AP) is a 'bottomless-pit' regarding cost. But as you've 'capped' your cost at £400 - I'd re-think doing such. A good mount for AP would take that away from your budget in a heart-beat.

My 2¢ -

Best Wishes,

Dave

[carastro]

Provided you accept your images will be limited due to this mount probably not having the ability to guide and therefore the exposures will not be long enough for good quality, then this set up might work for you.  However see if you can swap the 130P to a 130PDS (it's virtually the same scope, but the PDS version has a slightly shortened tube to enable cameras to be able to focus).

The 130PDS is a really nice imaging scope, there is a great long thread on here given over to images done by it, and I own one myself.  Then once you can get some more pennies together, it will sit quite nicely on a better dedicated EQ imaging mount.

HTH

Carole 

 

 

[happy-kat]

I think it has lots of positives the star discovery. The mount will work fully manually that is with no power, this is I think a big plus. the mount also has freedom find, this means even after aligning and using GoTo you can move the telescope manually with your hands after lossening the clutch and still use GoTo afterwards, great if small children grab the telescope mid using and move it, use the GoTo to refind the object and the telescope is there right on it. Yes the 150p that comes with it will not focus with a dslr, but the mount does not have to have a telescope just take that off and mount your dslr with camera lens on the mount instead. Get a red dot finder that fits in a camera hot shoe (I have one) and align your goto with that. Quite a few of the member's images you have found he used a DSLR with 135mm lens, that large mosaic of his was with that arrangement. Yesd the mount does move just tiny left right up down so images taken are limited to within 30-60 seconds depending where in the sky you point, excessive field rotation in an image you just crop the edges off to remove it. If you know you will end up imaging more than observing then perhaps think about EQ over AltAz.

[Alan64]

6 hours ago, Cuke said:

Thanks for the feedback people, sounds like I may have to have a bit of rethink...

After a bit of further research I've found that the only way the person behind the YouTube video I saw got the images he got was by doing a warranty voiding 'alteration' to the telescope meaning, I assume, the focus issues with that scope and DSLR's aren't solvable using regular means so even with the right mount it wouldn't make it a great choice with one eye on future photography.... So, is there a different 'starter' scope that may be a better pick, even with an Alt-alz Go-to style mount for now, as I'm assuming an equatorial mount is beyond my current price range?

For example this Skywatcher Explorer 150P with the Go-to mount option, at £560 it's over budget but at least its design to connect to a DSLR which may make it more future proof for my needs?

 

 

Choose this for predominantly visual use, with eyepieces...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-150p-eq3-2.html

Or choose this if you want your DSLR to play a larger part...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130p-ds-eq3-pro-goto.html

Cameras do not need large apertures in order to take photographs, as their sensors are far more sensitive than the human eye and therefore collect light much more readily.

Also, both of those kits sport aluminum tripod legs which are not as sturdy as those of tubular stainless-steel(as found on the larger EQ-5).  When taking photographs, the telescope and camera must be held rigidly in position, and to hold both steady against the winds and accidental bumps, else the images will be soft or blurred.

If you'd rather a 150mm with which to use a DSLR, the mount will need to be more robust...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-150p-ds-eq-5-pro-goto.html

There's also the 150P-DS with EQ-3 kit...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-150p-ds-eq3-2-eq3-pro-goto.html

The "P-DS" Newtonians are configured for use with DSLRs; the "P" series is configured for visual use, however one can be altered for imaging.

Also, the "P-DS" series sport two-speed focussers, and for finer focussing.  Such is of great benefit with an f/5 Newtonian, for both imaging and visual, and in realising the sharpest focus-point possible.

I would suggest imaging with a planetary webcam at first, with one of the EQ-3 kits, to get a feel for what's involved in so far as imaging.

Incidentally, note the simplicity of my 150mm f/5 on a manual alt-azimuth mount; no motors, no go-to...

With that kit, I've held a small point-and-shoot camera up to this eyepiece and that, holding the camera steady by hand, and took these still, instantaneous photographs, and on the fly...

Such is the simplest of astrophotographic techniques, and known as "afocal photography", and an option as well.

DSLR cameras have become a rather common household possession, and are often acquired long before a telescope is ever considered, for snapshots of the earthly, at home and on vacation.  But once a telescope finally arrives on the scene, the desire to connect the DSLR to it becomes what seems to be a good idea, at the time.  

In reality, however, connecting a DSLR to a telescope is known as "prime-focus astrophotography", and is the most difficult of the astrophotographic techniques in which to engage and master.  In short, the imaging and visual disciplines of our hallowed pastime are as two different animals entirely.

[ronin]

The 150P is built for visual, obtaining images vis a DSLR will very likely mean the person on Youtube has taken the rear off and moved the mirror up the tube, then recollimated it all. One aspect to keep in mind is that by ones means or another you will get a scope to image but thiose means are not always easy. It is mentioned more often now but consider visual and imaging as 2 seperate aspects with not a lot of cross over. Also never believe what you see on Youtube. Another thing is if someone turns up one good image with inappropriate equipment in a year is that really an astrophotography setup ? Most weant to get something each and every night they go out.

At this time the scope as it is is not really suitable, it will need altering, if the scope if f/5 then it is "fast" enough. The mount needs to be equitorial and it needs to have motors to drive it. Alt/Az mounts are not the right type - they move wrong. The equitorial mount has to be subatantial enough to hold the scope, 2 or 3 adaptor rings and say about 1Kg of DSLR. Usually the mount as supplied is just adaquate to hold the supplied scope without too much vibration.

A catch with the "packages" people see and buy (Scope+mount) is that these are for visual use not AP. For people doing AP they tend to buy the scope they want as one item, then buy the mount they want/need as another seperate item. So you get a 130PDS  (smaller then the 150P) on an EQ6 mount (need fork lift to move it around) and then they go imaging with that setup.

[happy-kat]

The discovery 150p telescope is not adjustable by moving the mirror up the tube the focuser was modified in order to reach focus with a DSLR. The youtube video found I suspect is the one that belongs to member Nige G on here.