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Gobra5x

New to Stargazing, Need a little advice on eyepieces!

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Hello everyone! Newbie here, Just registered after looking around the net, trying to find answers!

I've always been interested in stargazing, never got a scope, though, Until now, Me and my 6year old decided to get one, I got an Astromaster 130eq, for free, as it has a broken leg brace, and the eyepiece was toast, (I bought a new eyepiece, and got a leg brace on the way)

The eyepiece I got, Was a generic brand, and it's a 40mm one, (I got a 40mm one as the broken one was also 40mm) 

Today me and my son got our first look at the Moon, which we both loved! Now however, I've been looking at getting some better eyepieces, From what I've seen, I believe a 10mm would be better for looking at the Moon? I've seen them from 4mm up to 40mm, And I'm unsure as to what I'm looking at:S

Obviously we'd like to view all sorts of things, But as with a lot of people, being on a budget means I gotta be smart with what I get, so any suggestions would be well received!

I think I've read something about certain eyepieces work better for certain scopes, And I don't really know much about the one we have, if it's any good for a starter etc, so any advice there would also be wonderful!

Thank you for reading my longer than expected wall of text:D

-Chris

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Welcome

Whilst waiting for replies take a look at stellarium a great planetary software. Magnification is your telescope focal length divided by eyepiece. So if telescope is 750mm a 10mm eyepiece will give you 75x magnification.

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well, to start, you may need to learn something about magnification.
Magnification of produced image equals focal length of the telescope divided by focal length of the eyepiece. So, for your 40mm EP, that would be 650/40 ~ 16x, which is pretty low. (I believe your astromaster is a 130/650 scope).

For your scope you may need something which gives you

  • higher mag - like 150x - e.g. an eyepiece with focal length ~5mm
  • medium mag 70-120x - an EP with FL ~8mm
  • and low mag 40-70x - an EP with FL ~10-15mm

to add to the confusion, there exist some magic lenses which can give whatever EP double power! Or triple power!
those are called Barlow lenses, and for a start you may go and purchase some 2x barlow lens and a 10-15mm eyepiece. Eyepiece by itself will give you lower mag, but using the barlow with the eyepiece will give you higher mag, that way you can spare some money.

But I strongly advice to study on the subject a bit, so you don't spend money and end up disappointed

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Thank you for your replies! happy-kat I've been reading that thread:D I just find it a little confusing lol, 

And thank you very much kilix for all that information, I had seen the Barlow lenses and was considering them, I've read a lot of threads on a few forums today trying to figure it out, But I think I've read too much in a small amount of time and it's just turned to lots of numbers and random letters in my head:D

But that magnification sum helps a lot by the way:D

Edited by GKLeatherCraft
Added info

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Something around 15-16mm is good size in telescope for DSO my most used eyepeice in a 650mm 130mm same size telescope as yours (not the exact same though) is my 16mm for DSO and very nice on the Moon.

Smaller can be sharper then bigger and blurry so it is not always about magnification chasing.

For my high power I have a 6mm but it is not always good seeing to use it so the 16mm comes out again, though the Moon is generally always alright it is for example jupiter when 6mm can be too much for that night's atmopheric disterbance. You don't say how much you are looking to spend on each eyepeice.

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I think I'll definitely get an eyepiece in the 15-20mm range then, my 40 seems a bit off lol

I'm not sure on cost really, I was thinking around £40 to start with to get us started, But all goes well then I'll be looking to spend around 100

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Greetings, Chris, and a warm welcome to you, and your daughter, to SGL - it's nice to have you join us!

You've come the best place for help with all your questions on all aspects of astronomy. Pick the right forum here (or best you can) and ask away - helping to find answers is why we're all here. Soon enough you'll be one of the people answering them!

As happy_kat suggested Stellarium as a great "planetarium-program" to look at, if you would like this excellent software-program to look at - please let us know. I, for one, would be happy to arrange that so you'll have your own copy. It's a very detailed and realistic simulation of your night sky at any time you like. Similar programs can cost you over £200, while Stellarium (one of the very best) is free. I consider this the greatest bargain in astronomy & software-programs out there. Wish to know more and/or get it? Say the word!

As for purchasing "Astro-Goodies," I'd be cautious for now - we'll get you going in the right directions in due course - and just get a few things as necessities. Such as an eyepice or two. It's terribly easy to fall into the pattern of buying-up an entire warehouse! :D

We've been there! :eek:  :p

Starry Skies -

Dave

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Thank you for your reply Dave! 

I think I'll definitely look into getting Stellarium, I've been thinking about how I'd know which way to point the telescope, And I was going to start trying to teach myself a little bit of the layout of things, Constellations etc.

I think I'll be getting another eyepiece or two soon, My 40mm gave me a much better view of the moon than I've ever had with my own eyes, But I'd like to be able to view some other things too, I wasn't aware of the amount of things that you can actually see with scope, Of course price comes into it and the better your scope etc, the more you'll see, But even on lower end scopes, I was surprised to see the things people had spotted!

But I'm looking forward to some fun for me and Son, sitting out and looking for things in the nights sky!

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You can spend 400 pounds or more on one eyepiece, but you can also pick up a very reasonable EP for about 25 pounds! Two of the reasons that justify this difference in price are optical quality and design, and these influence factors such as field of view, eye relief and image quality in fast scopes. Field of view can range from about 50° in an inexpensive Plossl design to 100° or more, and basically means you can see more. Eye relief is how close your eyeball needs to be to the glass - if your eyeball has to be very close, this can be uncomfortable for extended viewing (and if you need to wear glasses, is just impossible). Most eyepieces should give sharp views in the centre, however many begin to deteriorate significantly as you move out towards the edge of the view. This problem is particularly noticeable in "fast" telescopes. Divide the focal length of your telescope by the aperture (in your case 650mm by 130mm) to get a number known as the focal ratio. F6 is average, a telescope with a lower number (yours is f5) is considered fast, while a higher number is slow. Some eyepieces just won't work well in fast scopes.

Collecting EPs can become obsessive, and I warn you there is no known cure :help:. But to start with I would aim to build up a basic range of no more thanthree with low, medium and higher magnifications. Personally I might go for 20mm which would give x32.5 (although you might also look for a second-hand 25mm, these often come supplied with telescopes and are sold off as people upgrade) and a 5mm which would give x130 - great for planets and detail on the Moon. And finally something in between, perhaps an 8mm giving about x80. If you find you are attracted to observing the planets, you might eventually want more magnification - but remember higher power only works with the best atmospheric conditions and in the UK that can be quite rare.

Another useful optical tool to increase your range of magnifications is the Barlow. This effectively increases the magnification of an EP by a factor - typically x2 although other factors are possible. Thus, for example, a 20mm EP with a x2 Barlow will perform as a 10mm, giving x65 magnification. An additional advantage is that it will maintain the eye relief of the original EP (higher magnification Plossls for example can have very tight eye relief). Beware of buying very cheap Barlows - combining a poor optical quaity Barlow with a so-so EP will just double up your problems - Ouch! If you stagger the magnifications of your EPs carefully, this can be a very economical option.

One further possibility is buying a zoom eyepiece. These usually come in 8-24mm (avoid 7-21mm - for some reason these don't work well) although they perform best in the 10mm to 20mm range. Unless you spend a lot of money, these type of EPs are always something of a compromise - but at 60-70 pounds, there are examples which are quite acceptable and will allow you to determine your most used magnifications.

Just a few of the available options you might consider are:

Celestron Omni Plossls, about 25 pounds each. Although not the best, good value for the price.

Vixen NPL Plossls, about 40-45 pounds. Very good quality. Limited field of view, and tight eye relief on higher magnifications.

BSL Explorers (also marketed as Starguiders, Paradigms etc). Very popular here on the SGL forums - about 50 pounds.

Explore Scientific 68° and 82° series - now about 115 pounds. Probably the next big step up before hitting painful money! Great performers.

Baader Classic Orthos are also very good especially for planetary observing, although eye relief is limited. Nicely flat viewing with minimum distortion for the price - about 50 pounds.

Also well worth keeping an eye out for second-hand. Most astronomers keep their EPs in very good condition and savings can be significant!

 

 

 

 

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Thank you very much Putaendo Patrick.

That's some good information, I'm writing this down as I go along, So I can refresh my memory on important things, I didn't realise there was so many factors when considering an EP.

And thank you very much on your recommendations, I'll look into those first thing in the morning! Appreciate it!

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A Celestron AstroMaster 130 EQ comes with a 130mm f/5 Newtonian, and with a focal-length of 650mm.  With the 40mm eyepiece...

650mm ÷ 40mm = 16x, and binocular-like

Such will serve as your low-power wide-field sweeper, and in helping to find objects to observe, then to insert a shorter focal-length eyepiece for a closer look once an object is found.  The eyepiece will also allow you to observe the galaxy in Andromeda and the Pleiades in the fall and winter, and the congested star-fields of the Milky Way in summer.  

A 10mm eyepiece...

650mm ÷ 10mm = 65x

A 130mm aperture is theoretically capable of a power up to 250x, but in practice, given a finicky atmosphere, more like 150x will be possible on most nights whilst ensuring a pleasingly sharp and clear image...

650mm ÷ 150x = a 4.3mm eyepiece, or let's just say a 10mm combined with a 2x barlow for a simulated 5mm(130x)...

http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/antares-x2-achro-barlow-lens-125.html

A 2x barlow, or even a 3x(triple the power), for a 130mm f/5 telescope is practically mandatory if you wish to observe objects at the moderate, higher and highest powers of which your telescope is capable.  The Moon, in that it's relatively right next door, can take even higher power, 200x even, or more.  The planets require at least 100x to see any real detail; 150x is plenty for the larger planets(Saturn and Jupiter), and to see a good bit of detail.

A barlow is also useful for expanding the number of powers with a set of eyepieces.  For example, three eyepieces and a barlow will give you six different powers, if planned out carefully so that no duplicate powers are created.  Barlowing the 40mm will produce a simulated 20mm(33x).

The CG3 equatorial mount of your kit is an EQ-2, and it can be motorised for automatic hands-free tracking...

http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/celestron-astromaster-motor-drive-unit.html

When observing at the higher powers, or when more than one observer is present, the motor-drive comes in quite handy; something to consider in future.

You can save on eyepieces by purchasing them from China on eBay, if you don't mind waiting on the boat...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=eyepiece&_sop=2

For example, here's a wide-field 9mm 66°... 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-25-Ultra-Wide-Angle-Linse-Okular-9MM-66-Deg-Mehrfach-vergutete-fur-Teleskop-/322342395641?hash=item4b0d1a9ef9:g:BzAAAOSwv9hW3lN0

A wide-field 6mm 66°... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-1-25-Ultra-Wide-Angle-Eyepiece-Lens-6MM-66-Deg-Multi-coated-for-Telescope-/361410466486?hash=item5425be12b6:g:AegAAOSwoBtW3lJw

You can 2x-barlow the 6mm for a simulated 3mm(217x), and for observing craterlets within the craters of the Moon, among other features.

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Hey Chris? Why not just get Stellarium right now - if you wish? As I said, it's FREE. So here you go. The below is my 'Copy & Paste' I've been using for quite awhile now. And we can help you with any questions you encounter. In fact, one of the team of developers is a member here who often pops in and answers questions too - Alex Wolf of Barnaul, Siberia, Russia. Anyways - here you go:

_______________________________________________________________________________

On this link is the main page for downloading Stellarium. Choose which version is correct for your computer. Here you go:

http://www.stellarium.org/
 
As for instructions, a full copy of them is bundled with the program that you download. But if you need another copy for some reason, these can be downloaded here:
 
https://sourceforge.net/projects/stellarium/files/Stellarium-user-guide/0.15.0-1/stellarium_user_guide-0.15.0-1.pdf/download

This program is quite large, so download when you have a few minutes. I'll leave you with a screenshot of mine, and also one of the screen approximating - roughly - of how it looks when you begin. Please know that I am an experienced user. I do this to help you understand the immense range & versatility of this amazing software-program.

 

In the Beginning...

58e32921a0ced_StellariumScreenshot-BeginningScreen.thumb.png.c8b8f785016f3082c1ef35d1ae9a1bcc.png

 

 

And my own - more advanced according to my uses...

 

stellarium-342.thumb.png.1acae81a68d26ae1ced3105821b9113e.png

Click on images for full-size

____________________________________________________________________________________

 

Enjoy!

Dave

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Scope is 130/650 so what is termed f/5  (650/130 = 5, actually think it is the other way as in 130/650 but we tend to arrive at the value the first way).

Being Celestron the mirror should be parabolic.

Eyepieces: The least (generally) option is for plossl eyepieces, price varies but somewhere around the £30 mark per eyepiece. Plossls come in different performances. The "easy" option to remember is that they begin to drop off in performance at around f/5 (your scope). TV plossl's go to f/4 but TV plossl's are £80-£120 each. The other aspect is the eye relief they deliver is related to their focal length. Simple way to get an approximate value is 70% or 2/3 of the focal length. So a 6mm or 5mm will have very little eye relief.

Sources are Rother Valley Optics for something like GSO plossl's, FLO for the Vixen NPL plossls (good ones) and Skies the Limit do a range of budget and not quoite budget ones. RVO and FLO will do others then the ones mentioned I expect.

As you seem to want a 10mm should be good, giving 65x magnification. Nice enough option.

When (as you will) want more magnification I suggest nothing less then 5mm that will give 130x and more or less enough for whatever is floating around up there. Saturn should need about 120x to 130x as a minimum. Saturn appears in a few of months time. For the shorter focal lengths (say less then 10mm) try the BST Starguiders, these are from Skies the Limit. Cost is £49 each. Will say many will just go straight to the BST's as they are good and will last you forever. If you did that then get the 8mm BST STarguider first - should be good on your scope. The 8mm, 12mm and 25mm should do everything for now.

Above BST's, plossl's and X-Cel LX's eyepieces rise in price, ES 82's are nice but are around £120-£150+.

Half tempted to say get an 8mm BST Starguider for £49, I think it will deliver good perfromance and what you want, and around 80x. All depends if you want to pay out that bit more for one.

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If you were going to pay more then pay more for your higher powered (shortest) eyepiece I think.

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Thanks again guys for all this awesome information, I didn't expect to get so many great, informative replies when I came here, I greatly appreciate it, and taking the time to offer up recommendations too, I'm going to have a look online today at all the things suggested here once I've finished some work, (At least working from home I choose my breaks:D) 

I was originally looking at getting a set of cheapish lenses, But I think I might go a little further and get something a bit more expensive that I know will last, and get some Barlow lenses too.

Now I just have to wait for my replacment part for my mount to get here, so I can fix it then have a play around with that and work out how to work it all:D

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You really only need the one barlow lens. x2 should cover a lot and if the barrel on that barlow unscrews it will then be a x1.6.

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Oh ok, I think I just got confused with seeing 2X Barlow lense, I just saw that as two of them, not twice magnification lol, That's a brain error on my part!

I was considering this set as a beginner set https://www.amazon.co.uk/Astronomical-Telescope-Accessory-Telescope-accessories/dp/B0186UCI9G/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1491302410&sr=8-6&keywords=telescope+eyepieces+plossl

Something to just have as a base to start on, Seems (From my PoV) that it has a nice basic selection to start with.

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I chose to avoid a set, I picked individual eyepeices as I was ready and I wanted to try different styles and not all be the same. Sets are not popular for everyone, you will soon end up replaciong the eyepeices and never using the filters and the barlow will be cheap.

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If you are really looking to control the spend then Astroboot have the GSO barlow 2.5x £20 (I think 2x might be better there is an AE one there) and a GSO 15mm 68 degree eyepeice £20 and an interesting looking GSO 6mm £15 though if you get a barlow then the 20mm might be better then the 6mm (always read the item descriptions). I use a 32mm GSO aka Revelation eyepeice and it performs nicely for the price. Generally speaking GSO Revelation eyepeices perform OK you will not get top this that and the other but they are not top price but they will be better than no eyepeices and will be better I would think then very cheap ones and I am happy with my 32mm one. (GSO and Revelation come from the same factory as far as I recall reading). If you spend more per eyepeice then you open up into other brands and main suppliers like FLO it depends how much you want and how quickly and what you want to spend. It's your spend have fun choosing :-) There is also an interesting looking ED glass 14mm eyepeice.

You should consider eyerelief and whether any of your observers wear glasses. Also at f5 your telescope could be a little fussy and cheaper eyepeices might not work at their best so always read what the supplier says about suitable for when looking at eyepeices.

I did the one at a time approach and my most used eyepeice in my telescope is my 16mm. If you buy a decent quality I suppose you are less likely to replace it there is that thought to, I have not used the BST ones mentioned further up in your thread and I have just seen that skywatcher also do £23 eyepeices at FLO my 25mm is OK and I use it but I left the 10mm in the box as soon as I could replace it.

Edited by happy-kat

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Fwiw there is also a version of Stellarium in the Goggle Play store that you can download for your mobile and then you can walk around outside with it.  There are also àpps that try to show the stars behind the part of the sky that the phone is held up to.

 

NB. Similar to happy_kat my current fave EP is a 15mm plossl and when needed a x2 Barlow for it.

Edited by JOC

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41 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

There is also an interesting looking ED glass 14mm eyepeice.

It looks like a rebadged Orion Epic ED. I had a 12.5mm one and couldn't see much difference between it and a 12mm BST Starguider (aka an Orion Epic ED II). The anti reflection coatings were different, more of a red tint compared to the greener Starguider, 5° narrower field of view and fold up eyecups instead of twist up. It's got to be worth the £21 they're asking for it. 

Personally, for an f5 scope I'd be looking for a 10-12mm eyepiece for smaller DSOs, and then a 5-6mm (or 2x Barlow) for planetary.

21 minutes ago, JOC said:

Fwiw there is also a version of Stellarium in the Goggle Play store that you can download for your mobile and then you can walk around outside with it.  There are also àpps that try to show the stars behind the part of the sky that the phone is held up to.

 

NB. Similar to happy_kat my current fave EP is a 15mm plossl and when needed a x2 Barlow for it.

The mobile Stellarium isn't made by the same team that make the PC Stellarium and so doesn't have anywhere near as many features.

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30 minutes ago, Ricochet said:

The mobile Stellarium isn't made by the same team that make the PC Stellarium and so doesn't have anywhere near as many features.

Maybe not, but as a straight forward planetarium it's a darn sight easier to wave it around at the sky outdoors than the PC version is LOL.  Personally I never use the PC one; but I've always got the mobile version on the go.

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3 hours ago, GKLeatherCraft said:

Ah ok, That makes sense, thanks!

In the long run, it's best to build up a good, useful set of eyepieces over time, and without having to break the bank; just a small crack now and again. The nice thing about getting eyepieces and other accessories is that once you have a specific one there in your hand, you never have to get another.  I've had this eyepiece since 1992 or '93...

58e3adc794085_9mmOrthoscopic2.jpg.d344ade9a84ae7f2480beb8a3fe935eb.jpg 

I used it with a kit that I had at the time, and one that I no longer have, but I still have that eyepiece.   I now use it with my current kits; and the best part, I paid only £39 for it, new.  I could've gotten one of these, later, when I was able...

https://www.telescopehouse.com/eyepieces/televue-eyepieces/televue-naglers/televue-nagler-9mm-eyepiece-1-25.html

...but in the end it never crossed my mind.

GSO makes very good Plossl-design eyepieces...

http://www.365astronomy.com/GSO-Super-Plossl-Eyepieces/

...and are the minimum to consider when building up a set.  I wouldn't go below the 9mm, like a 6mm or even a 4mm, as the eye-relief is tight and where you'd have to almost touch your eye to the lens to see the full view.  If short eye-relief isn't a problem, then you might consider the 6mm only, and as the shortest.  The 9mm Plossl would give you a wider view than that of my 9mm orthoscopic illustrated above, along with reasonable eye-relief.  In future, you might also consider the 32mm(20x) as a replacement for the 40mm that you have now.  The GSO 32mm Plossl is very popular here in the States, and sells out on a regular basis.

In future, you may find yourself with a second telescope kit, or a third, and you'll already have the eyepieces and barlow to use with them.  Such are like luggage, and for life.  As long as they're not lost or spirited away, they'll always be there for you.

The Antares 2x barlow that I linked to previously is out of stock here in the States...

 http://agenaastro.com/antares-1-25-2x-barlow-lens-b2s.html

Click on the "reviews" tab and read what the second reviewer, DanF, has to say about his.  He has the same kit as your own, branded "Orion", yet both yours and his were made by the same manufacturer overseas.

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