Solar Goggles?

[samzeman]

Hey! I wasn't sure where to post this, but the other post I found remotely concerning this type of thing was also here.

I want to make some solar goggles, like eclipse glasses, but more permanent and robust. Mostly to impress my friends, but also because sometimes on really cloudy days I get a naked-eye glimpse of the disk of the sun and it looks awesome (I know I shouldn't look even if it's dim enough; I try to not do it much :P). I don't really know if this is entirely possible. I initially was going to use shade 14 welders glasses, but apparently that's a fairly bad idea according to this:

(There's a lot of misleading information out there, apparently.)

So instead I was going to get some goggle/glasses frames (with the side safety panels, just to be sure) and use some of the Baader AstroSolar Safety film I've heard is good. Is this okay? Obviously I want to be as careful as possible. 

(P.S if I had a decent sum of money at all I would get a telescope and look at the stars instead; this is really all I can fit as a side-project /if/ it's something I can even do)

[Cornelius Varley]

Alternatively, you could buy ready made Baader solar eclipse observing glasses

[Gfamily]

The AAS and NASA are not recommending Baader AstroSolar safety film as safe for making solar viewing glasses as it doesn't meet ISO 12312-2 Filters for direct viewing of the Sun. 

The standard use of this film is in conjunction with telescopes and eyepieces, and they contain glass that acts as an effective UV filter. However, using it as 'solar viewing glasses' will not include enough glass elements to block out the UV from reaching the retina - with the risk of damaging it due to viewing over an extended period of time. 

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/571667-baader-solar-film-for-direct-viewing-of-the-sun-no/#entry7789842

Although the FLO site is selling them as conforming to  EG-Norm 89/686 and EN 169/92, I'm not sure whether it meets the ISO standard mentioned above. 

[101nut]

1 hour ago, Gfamily said:

The AAS and NASA are not recommending Baader AstroSolar safety film as safe for making solar viewing glasses as it doesn't meet ISO 12312-2 Filters for direct viewing of the Sun. 

The standard use of this film is in conjunction with telescopes and eyepieces, and they contain glass that acts as an effective UV filter. However, using it as 'solar viewing glasses' will not include enough glass elements to block out the UV from reaching the retina - with the risk of damaging it due to viewing over an extended period of time. 

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/571667-baader-solar-film-for-direct-viewing-of-the-sun-no/#entry7789842

Although the FLO site is selling them as conforming to  EG-Norm 89/686 and EN 169/92, I'm not sure whether it meets the ISO standard mentioned above. 

Note that Baader Film *did* conform. This does not mean that the film has suddenly become more dangerous, just that the permissible UV exposure limit for the latest ISO standard has reduced (for whatever reason).

AndyG

[samzeman]

On 4/3/2017 at 17:42, Cornelius Varley said:

Alternatively, you could buy ready made Baader solar eclipse observing glasses

 

2 hours ago, 101nut said:

Note that Baader Film *did* conform. This does not mean that the film has suddenly become more dangerous, just that the permissible UV exposure limit for the latest ISO standard has reduced (for whatever reason).

AndyG

Better safe than sorry lol - I'll conform to the most strict guideline possible. I didn't see the eclipse glasses before but they seem to use the same not-quite-good-enough film - I found these / this which is up to ISO 12312-2 and I hear rainbow symphony is decent, but the shipping is ironically astronomical. There's also these plastic glasses and this filter which both allegedly conform but also have fairly bad shipping, but the best I'll probably get. Man, I must not have looked very hard at all. My mistake was assuming that all eclipse glasses would be cardboard and not always trustworthy when they're cheap, but there's plenty of plastic good seeming ones.

[LukeSkywatcher]

I'm sure you are aware that even with eclipse glasses that you most likely will not see any sunspots or surface detail. Buying any kind of eclipse/solar glasses is a bit of a waste of time and money unless you are planning to observe an eclipse (and then, they are used purely for safety) .They offer zero magnification. The best/safest way to observe the Sun is with a safety filter fitted to the objective end of a telescope. This will allow you to see sunspots and surface detail.

[FLO]

Interesting discussion  

My understanding is Baader Planetarium, a German company, produces Baader AstroSolar film that conforms to standards set by the German PTB (National Metrology Institute of Germany) and is CE-tested to EG-Norm 89/686 and EN 169/92 (notified body 0196). This is mentioned in the text on our product information page. I confess I don't know how that compares with standards set by US bodies but will ask when next we speak with Baader. 

HTH, 

Steve 

[samzeman]

4 hours ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

I'm sure you are aware that even with eclipse glasses that you most likely will not see any sunspots or surface detail. Buying any kind of eclipse/solar glasses is a bit of a waste of time and money unless you are planning to observe an eclipse (and then, they are used purely for safety) .They offer zero magnification. The best/safest way to observe the Sun is with a safety filter fitted to the objective end of a telescope. This will allow you to see sunspots and surface detail.

Yeah, I get that - I'm aiming to get a telescope eventually. However I just like how the sun looks. It's like a coin or something, maybe a novelty to look at, but cool anyways.

4 hours ago, FLO said:

Interesting discussion  

My understanding is Baader Planetarium, a German company, produces Baader AstroSolar film that conforms to standards set by the German PTB (National Metrology Institute of Germany) and is CE-tested to EG-Norm 89/686 and EN 169/92 (notified body 0196). This is mentioned in the text on our product information page. I confess I don't know how that compares with standards set by US bodies but will ask when next we speak with Baader. 

HTH, 

Steve 

I found this post which seems to suggest Baader Astrofilm isn't designed for direct viewing:

Quote

Baader told me that he is introducing a new, improved filter material for use in eclipse glasses, and that it is currently being tested against the ISO 12312-2 standard. Once certified, it will replace regular AstroSolar film in Baader eclipse shades — but Baader told me he doesn’t plan to sell these shades in the US, at least not for 2017.

 

[ronin]

All you will see by eye is a small bright disk. Not detail and generally little else. The one time a sunspot was visible by the naked eye, that I recall, was back in about 2001-2002 when there was a lot of big sunspots. Again all you could see was a dark dot/patch on a bright disk, and a small disk at that.

The only simple way I can think of is to make yourself a sort of normal solar filter from one of the solar films around and get yourself a small monocular. Build a filter for the monocular, it would be a small filter, and then view the sun. Would still not be big by any means but should show any sunspots that are of a reasonable size.

[FLO]

2 hours ago, samzeman said:

I found this post which seems to suggest Baader Astrofilm isn't designed for direct viewing:

I saw that  

Baader Planetarium is a German/European company and we are a UK retailer. I am confident they have adhered to the standards that apply to our markets but I do see and understand there are other standards that apply to other markets. If US consumers are focused on a different or revised standard and a company wishes to sell products there I guess they should at least investigate. Reading the discussion on Cloudy Nights it sounds like that is what BP are doing. 

I have raised this with BP so might have more to say later. 

HTH, 

Steve 

[FLO]

PS: Welcome to SGL samzeman  

[LukeSkywatcher]

I have been observing the Sun for yrs with the solar film sold by FLO.................and i am not blind.

[samzeman]

20 hours ago, FLO said:

I saw that  

Baader Planetarium is a German/European company and we are a UK retailer. I am confident they have adhered to the standards that apply to our markets but I do see and understand there are other standards that apply to other markets. If US consumers are focused on a different or revised standard and a company wishes to sell products there I guess they should at least investigate. Reading the discussion on Cloudy Nights it sounds like that is what BP are doing. 

I have raised this with BP so might have more to say later. 

HTH, 

Steve 

Alrighty then

20 hours ago, FLO said:

PS: Welcome to SGL samzeman  

Thanks

19 hours ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

I have been observing the Sun for yrs with the solar film sold by FLO.................and i am not blind.

Well, maybe I'll get some, and use it with the tiny telescope I have anyway.

[FLO]

On 05/04/2017 at 21:28, FLO said:

I have raised this with BP so might have more to say later. 

Baader Planetarium have today announced new Solar Eclipse Observing Glasses with 'silver/gold' Astrosolar material that reduces sunlight 99.999% and provides 100% UV/IR protection. 

CE / ISO certified: conforms to the transmission requirements for eye safety EN ISO 12312-2:2015. 

The new glasses will be released mid-June. 

HTH, 

Steve 

[Louis D]

The orange tinting glasses sound like they are made from Thousand Oaks Silver-Black Polymer solar filter media.  I bought 5 pairs from here.  They seem to block more visible light than Baader solar film.

I generally have to use an IR/UV blocking filter as well as a moon filter when using BSF visually.  It feels like my eye is being cooked after a few minutes without them, so I suspect IR is getting through.  Maybe they have changed the formula since it was first introduced nearly 20 years ago when I bought my sheet of it.

[SonnyE]

Whatever you do, be very careful. Once you damage your eyes, that's it.

My wife's Dad was a professional welder. He is for all intents and purposes, totally blind now at 83.

The only Stars he see's now are if he stands up too fast....

[Dave In Vermont]

I use a filter from Thousand Oaks - which gives the Sun an orange colour - as I find this easier on my eyes than the brighter white-light of Baader and other filters available out there. In a telescope fitted with a 'white-light' filter up front (I have one of these as well), I often used a 2-piece Variable Polarizing-Filter.

And now my (required - in my opinion!) customary warning:

REGARDLESS OF THE FILTER YOU USE - ALWAYS DOUBLE, OR TRIPLE, CHECK YOUR FILTER BEFORE EVERY USE! ALWAYS!!

Enjoy - with great caution -

Dave

[Louis D]

10 hours ago, Dave In Vermont said:

I use a filter from Thousand Oaks - which gives the Sun an orange colour - as I find this easier on my eyes than the brighter white-light of Baader and other filters available out there. In a telescope fitted with a 'white-light' filter up front (I have one of these as well), I often used a 2-piece Variable Polarizing-Filter.

And now my (required - in my opinion!) customary warning:

REGARDLESS OF THE FILTER YOU USE - ALWAYS DOUBLE, OR TRIPLE, CHECK YOUR FILTER BEFORE EVERY USE! ALWAYS!!

Enjoy - with great caution -

Dave

As a matter of fact, when I read the OP's subject line, I immediately thought of how I check my 8-inch BSF for damage.  I hold it up to my face and look at the sun, and the 2 inch deep ring that slips over the tube to hold it in place acts like blinders, so it looks a bit like a whole face goggle or mask.  After 15+ years, it's holding up remarkably well.  I had a glass Thousand Oaks blem filter with many tiny pin holes in the coating that I gave to a friend for photographic use only.  Apparently, they've moved on to films rather than coated glass.

[andre2]

Lunt 50 mm