Frustration venting

[LukeSkywatcher]

23 minutes ago, John said:

I went through the doldrums for most of last year to be honest. The 1st couple of months of this year were poor for observing as well but my enthusiasm has gradually returned and I feel much more enthusiastic about the hobby now. I've been through this "cycle" before so I thought that things might pick up again.

The Sun has an 11 year sunspot cycle. Maybe astronomers have a sort of motivation cycle as well ?

2017 could be the year (i said it last year), when i move from WL solar observing to H-Alpha. I'm sure the family (i can already feel the eyes of my 14 yr old niece and my mother looking at me in great scorn) will not approve. There always seems to be something going on in H-Alpha and its a bit more interesting and dynamic than WL.

Will it be a Quark, will it be a PST????????

Who knows!!!!!!

I'm all about "the less gear to take outside, the better", so PST could win the day. Although during the day......taking gear outside such as laptop etc isnt much of an issue and it is lovely to be outside in the sunshine with family and friends and nature.

[spaceboy]

I suppose my opening post has put the wrong impression on the thread. I never have been all that good at putting my thoughts into text or words for that matter

Don't get me wrong. My enthusiasm for the hobby hasn't waivered in anyway. I admit I don't go out as often as I once did due to other commitments but I do like to get out when I can. Where my frustrations lie are with the fact that when I do go out the view seems washed out. I had this every now and again but it seems like every time I go out it's now the same struggle to enjoy the views because nothing pops from the background skyglow. Dark skies are 30 miles away from me and the weather is far too unpredictable to go on a whim. If the UK is set for clear skies I have no problem committing the fuel and 50 mins to drive out to my dark site but other than that my back yard is as good as it gets.

[LukeSkywatcher]

4 minutes ago, spaceboy said:

I suppose my opening post has put the wrong impression on the thread. I never have been all that good at putting my thoughts into text or words for that matter

Don't get me wrong. My enthusiasm for the hobby hasn't waivered in anyway. I admit I don't go out as often as I once did due to other commitments but I do like to get out when I can. Where my frustrations lie are with the fact that when I do go out the view seems washed out. I had this every now and again but it seems like every time I go out it's now the same struggle to enjoy the views because nothing pops from the background skyglow. Dark skies are 30 miles away from me and the weather is far too unpredictable to go on a whim. If the UK is set for clear skies I have no problem committing the fuel and 50 mins to drive out to my dark site but other than that my back yard is as good as it gets.

Do you do much imaging?. Its amazing how much detail that can be dragged out of images taken in post processing. Obviously, imaging in not an instant "wow" that observers can get at the eyepiece, but i'm sure imagers get the same buzz with processing their images. 

[spaceboy]

13 minutes ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

2017 could be the year (i said it last year), when i move from WL solar observing to H-Alpha. I'm sure the family (i can already feel the eyes of my 14 yr old niece and my mother looking at me in great scorn) will not approve. There always seems to be something going on in H-Alpha and its a bit more interesting and dynamic than WL.

Will it be a Quark, will it be a PST????????

Who knows!!!!!!

I'm all about "the less gear to take outside, the better", so PST could win the day. Although during the day......taking gear outside such as laptop etc isnt much of an issue and it is lovely to be outside in the sunshine with family and friends and nature.

FWIW Luke I think you'd be better off with a LS50tha than a PST. I have recently come in to the possession of a PST and I have to say I am rather underwhelmed given the new price tag on these things. Great value for the £450 they used to retail at in 2011 but not so much the £880 they currently sell for given the 50mm lunt is only £120 more.

[LukeSkywatcher]

11 minutes ago, spaceboy said:

FWIW Luke I think you'd be better off with a LS50tha than a PST. I have recently come in to the possession of a PST and I have to say I am rather underwhelmed given the new price tag on these things. Great value for the £450 they used to retail at in 2011 but not so much the £880 they currently sell for given the 50mm lunt is only £120 more.

Yeah the Lunt seems popular. Ive read about issues with PST. 

[spaceboy]

28 minutes ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

Do you do much imaging?. Its amazing how much detail that can be dragged out of images taken in post processing. Obviously, imaging in not an instant "wow" that observers can get at the eyepiece, but i'm sure imagers get the same buzz with processing their images. 

Tried it a while back but found it all too demanding on my limited amount of patience. I actually got in to photography as a result, which has now turned out to be another expensive hobby . I had posted a couple threads with the intent of getting in to video astronomy which I may still persue given recent frustrations? Although I can't help but think I would be missing out on something by not seeing it with my own eyes if that makes sense ?

[Gina]

Have to say I'm thinking about Ha solar again - I tend to think about it around this time every year it seems   I must sell a couple of items first though - can't keep collecting stuff!!  Need to do a bit of reading too.  The number of days when it's sunny in the daytime but rain, cloud or fog roll in for the night is quite amazing!

[Ags]

Building a 3d model of near space rekindled my enthusiasm. I never realised so many interesting objects are quite close to us.

Spaceboy I know what you mean about video astronomy; I need to see the targets with my own eyes.

[spaceboy]

2 hours ago, Gina said:

Have to say I'm thinking about Ha solar again - I tend to think about it around this time every year it seems   I must sell a couple of items first though - can't keep collecting stuff!!  Need to do a bit of reading too.  The number of days when it's sunny in the daytime but rain, cloud or fog roll in for the night is quite amazing!

Ha, is the way to go Gina. It can get quite just the same as white light but there is at least something to see in Ha as apposed to just a white ball in WL. Where WL comes in to it's own though is when you do get large sun spots. Be it Baader film for newts, SCT, MAK or Herschel wedge for refractors the cost is relatively small in comparison to dedicated Ha scopes so your less likely to be restricted by aperture meaning you can get far higher resolution to see detail.

It is funny how cloud works though. I swear there are times when the skies are fair and very little cloud but there always seems to be a patch appear from no where when I'm trying to observe the sun. I think to myself it forms because the sun is in that area of sky. May be the case may not? but it seems to do it a lot yet on the opposite side of the horizon it's clear and blue ?? The good thing is though you really don't care as your sat in the warm working on your bronzing while supping a cold one

[John]

One way I've re-gained motiviation for the hobby, and this may sound odd, is by deliberately NOT observing on every opportunity. If I see a clear sky I ask myself if I feel inclined to get a scope out and whether there is something that I'd particularly like to observe. If I've no clear inclinations on either question then I don't observe. It is possible to get yourself into a sort of observing frenzy where you feel compelled to get out all the time. That may work for some but I found that it created a kind of pressure that I didn't want (it's a hobby, after all). Deciding not to observe from time to time has kind of regained control of the hobby for me, which is a better feeling

A large number of members of my astro society don't actively observe at all as far as I can tell. They enjoy astronomy by reading, watching talks and lectures and documentaries and there is nothing wrong with that

 

 

 

[michaelmorris]

Hi Spaceboy

I share your frustration, Weeks and weeks of cloud.  However, we've had a few half decent nights just 20-30 miles south of you in Worcester over the last fortnight.  

One way to re-motivate yourself is to set yourself some projects    One of mine is observing and drawing stars from the marvellous collection of double stars described in Sissy Haas's excellent book 'Double Stars for Small Telescopes'.  Add a copy of the Cambridge Double Star Atlas to help you find them all, and you have project that will last you years.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Double-Stars-Small-Telescopes-Stargazing/dp/1931559325/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490823924&sr=8-1&keywords=sissy+haas

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cambridge-Double-Star-Atlas/dp/1107534208/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1490824016&sr=1-1&keywords=cambridge+double+star+atlas

 

 

[Gina]

56 minutes ago, John said:

One way I've re-gained motivation for the hobby, and this may sound odd, is by deliberately NOT observing on every opportunity. If I see a clear sky I ask myself if I feel inclined to get a scope out and whether there is something that I'd particularly like to observe. If I've no clear inclinations on either question then I don't observe. It is possible to get yourself into a sort of observing frenzy where you feel compelled to get out all the time. That may work for some but I found that it created a kind of pressure that I didn't want (it's a hobby, after all). Deciding not to observe from time to time has kind of regained control of the hobby for me, which is a better feeling

Yes, though in my case it's imaging.  I used to feel pressure to got out and set up and open the roof at every possible opportunity only to be frustrated when clouds roll in after and hour or so!  Now, like you, I decide if I feel like imaging when a it looks like a clear night and just don't push myself.  A much better way to indulge in the hobby.

[spaceboy]

1 hour ago, John said:

One way I've re-gained motiviation for the hobby, and this may sound odd, is by deliberately NOT observing on every opportunity. If I see a clear sky I ask myself if I feel inclined to get a scope out and whether there is something that I'd particularly like to observe. If I've no clear inclinations on either question then I don't observe. It is possible to get yourself into a sort of observing frenzy where you feel compelled to get out all the time. That may work for some but I found that it created a kind of pressure that I didn't want (it's a hobby, after all). Deciding not to observe from time to time has kind of regained control of the hobby for me, which is a better feeling

I do exactly that John. But a lot of its again down to the skyglow and not so much trying to regain control of the hobby.

I will be sat typing away on SGL and poke my head out the window and see clear skies. I then pop out to the garden to see if the entire sky is clear and get a feel for seeing in the twinkle of stars. I then go back inside to quickly browse stellarium and see what's up. It is at this point I ask myself if I am inclined to get the scope out only to sit in the cold looking ( that should read struggling to find) at washed out clusters and fainter than faint nebulas. If I am in need of a pick me up I will go out simply because anything is better than nothing and I enjoy getting my hands on my astro kit once in a while. Like a fisherman who catches nothing but enjoys the whole setting up his rod and sitting on the bank anyway. Sadly though more often than not the thought of struggling to find and then see anything in the eyepiece puts my butt back in the seat and I continue to moan about it on SGL.

59 minutes ago, michaelmorris said:

Hi Spaceboy

I share your frustration, Weeks and weeks of cloud.  However, we've had a few half decent nights just 20-30 miles south of you in Worcester over the last fortnight.  

One way to re-motivate yourself is to set yourself some projects    One of mine is observing and drawing stars from the marvellous collection of double stars described in Sissy Haas's excellent book 'Double Stars for Small Telescopes'.  Add a copy of the Cambridge Double Star Atlas to help you find them all, and you have project that will last you years.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Double-Stars-Small-Telescopes-Stargazing/dp/1931559325/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490823924&sr=8-1&keywords=sissy+haas

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cambridge-Double-Star-Atlas/dp/1107534208/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1490824016&sr=1-1&keywords=cambridge+double+star+atlas

 

 

This is the thing Michael. I too have had a few "decent nights" the past couple weeks and this is kind of where this thread has originated from. As mentioned previously, cloud isn't so much the problem as the washed out views I'm getting in the eyepiece. It has got to be the new LED lights that is causing it!! Either that or an increase in flights from BHX putting contrails directly overhead (hears a jet as he is typing Grrrr) If BHX is to expand and passenger numbers do double I may as well throw in the towel and take up radio astronomy. Come to think of it I have a thread somewhere complaining about St lights to the rear of my garden. My guess is this would be around a similar time period to when the views became increasingly washed out. I had been putting it down to a change in eyepieces having never noticed problems with my previous premium brands but now I think about it the timing would be about the same. It would be interesting to see if I still had washed out skies with my old TV Nags. If I did then it would definitely be the new St lights. I guess while the LED lights all point down they reflect a great deal back up being so bright.

AS for double stars, if the skies are calm I love em. In fact doubles, planets, the moon and the really bright DSO's at zenith are the only things I have been able to observe lately. Not good when you consider only a couple years ago I could catch a hint of the Milkyway over head. I know last year for sure there was no sign of it as I lay for a couple hours watching out for a meteor shower.

[michaelmorris]

I think the solution is to tailor your astronomy around what skies you have, not what skies you would like.

Whilst my suburban skies don't sound quite as poor as yours, they aren't exactly what you would call dark. 

To accommodate this, I decided to concentrate most of my visual observing on doubles, planets and the Moon. My DSO imaging from home is going to be mostly in narrowband.

To get my dark skies DSO fix this year I am going to three star parties. Kelling Heath in 3 weeks time and again in September, then SGL in October.

 

[Alien_Photons]

This is a path well trodden by many.

There is only one solution and that will come from within you.

My own was to go back to basics and try and find that joy I got from looking through a small refractor when I was a boy. So no cameras, no computers, no cables (down to one at least) no software most importantly no frustration. I seem to have achived this. I had the most fun with a telescope in the last three months than I did at any time in the last eight years. The thirty years before that were never a problem! I have limited myself to what I can see moon, planets and doubles. Then only occasionally and at short notice or limited time/opportunities.

I have in effect changed from having goals to having fun.

Good Luck.

[Moonshane]

Maybe I am just a touch masochistic but I actually like the challenge (although sometimes it might not appear so) of finding at home the things that I could see at dark sites. Often I find that once I have found them somewhere else, they become easier at home too. In all honesty, even at a dark site, many of the NGC galaxies are a slight puff of smoke with no detail even in a 16" dob if the conditions are not ideal (are they ever?) so that's what I expect at home. OK the Messiers are better as they are brighter etc but they are better at home too. In fact I was having this sort of conversation at the PSP star party with Stu and Dave. Aperture is great and I like having a bigger scope but I have no real hunger for a larger scope on the basis that I am never going to run out of NGC galaxies in my life and chasing anything more obscure is unlikely to be worth it for me.  The main thing to always have in mind is that this is supposed to be enjoyable. A touch frustrating occasionally yes, but enjoyable. 

 

[Astro Imp]

10 hours ago, John said:

One way I've re-gained motiviation for the hobby, and this may sound odd, is by deliberately NOT observing on every opportunity. If I see a clear sky I ask myself if I feel inclined to get a scope out and whether there is something that I'd particularly like to observe. If I've no clear inclinations on either question then I don't observe. It is possible to get yourself into a sort of observing frenzy where you feel compelled to get out all the time. That may work for some but I found that it created a kind of pressure that I didn't want (it's a hobby, after all). Deciding not to observe from time to time has kind of regained control of the hobby for me, which is a better feeling

A large number of members of my astro society don't actively observe at all as far as I can tell. They enjoy astronomy by reading, watching talks and lectures and documentaries and there is nothing wrong with that

 

 

 

That seems a very grown up approach, after all as you say this is a hobby and should be enjoyed and not be a chore.

 

[Gina]

Absolutely!  I have very low light pollution here in The Blackdown Hills in deepest rural Devon but that doesn't help when you can't see the sky!!

[RichLD]

The main problem I have had in the past with this hobby is GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) when conditions do not allow me to image. 

Like Michael said, my skies will ultimately dictate the quality of my images so for now I'm happy with what I've got. I've also tried to become less obsessive about taking advantage of every clear night opportunity and to not get the mardys when I can't get to my dark site because life gets in the way, which has made me a happier person in general 

I do know what you mean about the recent washed out nature of the skies though...

 

[nightfisher]

I am at the decision I can get superb Luna views from home and good planetary when they are well placed, I will do any DSO hunting away from home, I don't see me getting any more astro gear other than an eyepiece, the 120ED will serve me well for the rest of my astro use

[Stu]

I have always tried to keep the stress out of observing, and not worry how frequently I get out. I have gone for longer periods without a session, but always maintain my interest and 'look up' whenever under a clear sky.

Shane's comments ring true, in terms of getting the most out of the kit you have. It can be just as much of an observing challenge seeing a shadow or GRS transit on Jupiter using a 60mm frac as it is spotting a mag 16 galaxy in a 20" dob.

One of my favourite observations was spotting the supernova in M82 awhile back using a 4" frac from a light polluted site (my garden!) It took a lot to spot it, using averted vision and getting the focus pin sharp so I was delighted. The following day it was trivial in a 12" dob, and somehow far less memorable.

[nightfisher]

I have just read an article on our local facebook group, the local council are planning to build an additional 3400 new homes mainly on the greenbelt area of the village of Queensbury.............best try to make the most of it before the light pollution goes of the scale 

[Stu]

56 minutes ago, nightfisher said:

I have just read an article on our local facebook group, the local council are planning to build an additional 3400 new homes mainly on the greenbelt area of the village of Queensbury.............best try to make the most of it before the light pollution goes of the scale 

Form a group and object. We've just got an application refused for 1000 houses right near us.

[nightfisher]

4 minutes ago, Stu said:

Form a group and object. We've just got an application refused for 1000 houses right near us.

There already is an apposition group, a friend (yes got one or 2  ) lives at far end of the field my house looks onto, has been warned they are planning about 180 houses backing onto his garden, he is into astro and dead against, but i think we are veering of topic a tad  

[Stu]

I do feel a little deflated after observing for a few hours last night.

Polaris, which was an easy split in the 24mm Pan at DIYPSP was flaring and quite tricky, although the secondary was still visible.

M42, which at the weekend had been huge in the eyepiece of the 925, and really quite green, was significantly smaller in extent with far less contrast and at best could be described as greenish grey.

M3 was an indistinct blob, barely resolving even in the 925, when it had been like a sparkling disco ball under the dark skies. M67 required averted vision to see it As anything more than a few stars.

I know the moon was around but it is only around 18 degrees illuminated and was 70 degrees away from M67 at the time, and pretty low in the skies.

I must get round to focusing on the Lunar 100....