M51 and M81/82

[JOC]

PHIL53 - that's a nice Messier list - I like the maps with it (printer currently working!).  However, the best bit is the printing is in B&W.  I didn't give one I printed out the other day a second thought and did it in the colours that had been on the screen at the time - I discovered when I wanted to use my printout in anger that it is very difficult to read red, yellow and light orange printing in the dark under a red torch!!!

[Scott Brown]

9 hours ago, JOC said:

Hi Scott, I've never failed to find M42 (though I didn't try the night you were looking in the bad conditions).  However, now I know where it is I do wonder if you are in right place from your description.

It might be worth confirming where you should be by searching for M42 in Stellarium.  From experience it isn't within Orion's belt, and its not really in his sword.  Its a bit to the right of the sword (as I look to the sky with my naked eye) and sort of below the middle star of his belt.  On a good night I sort of see a general indistinct fuzziness reminiscent of distant stars that I can't quite make out with my naked eye, but is def. there with the naked eye.  That's M42, I see it nicely with my 26mm or even my  32mm (the whole nebula verges on filling the EP) a general fuzzy grey background with several much brighter more central stars in it.  If I then home in on the brightest of these (the trapezium) with my 10mm (which I'm guessing you will also have) the trapezium will resolve into at least 4 stars - that's how you will know you've found it and are right in the middle of it, but you won't see the whole thing unless you zoom out with the 26mm or similar - that's what I find anyway.  Go back and have another look, I think perhaps you aren't quite in the right place and are looking for it to be smaller than it is - even in bright moonlight I can still find it even with some faint wispy cloud about.  HTH

I will double check the area JOC but pretty sure I was in the ball park. I suppose it's hard until you find it for the first time..... Scott

[Scott Brown]

9 hours ago, PHIL53 said:

You do not say much about your equipment: I assume you have an optical 8x50 finder on you 8" Dob...nothing else ?

If so, you should consider adding a Telrad (my favourite) or a Rigel Quikfinder and with the appropriate maps as attached (or programs such as SkySafari on your smartphone) finding where M 51 lies will be easy !

Of course, if sky conditions are bad you will never see much, but at least you will know you are in the right spot !

 

MAPPE MESSIER X TELRAD.pdf

I have a Rigel quickfinder  but I've not used it yet but will do. Great list Phil thanks.

[John]

At 98x you were probably looking right through M42.

I did that when I 1st observed it. I caught something at about 100x and did a rough sketch. I later realised that I'd just seen the central part. I went back with much lower magnification (around 30x I think) and then I saw the whole thing.

It will be much easier without a moon in the sky. You can see M42 as a smudge with your naked eye then.

[Scott Brown]

The missus shouted on me and told me we had a clear sky, rushed out, got the Dob set up came in to get my eyepieces and some thin cloud came over. It cleared 20 minutes later and I jumped out and put on the 25mm (x48) went straight to the place where I looked the other night for Orion Nebular and seen 3 or 4 bright stars with a kind of greyish whispy clouding almost mist like around them.... It wasn't the clouds coming over because I looked at nearby stars and they were clear and when I went back to the target I seen the whisps again right away, then all of a sudden the clouds came over and light rain came on so scope back inside. I'm sure this was Orion's Nebular either that I'm buzzing over nothing. Can anyone confirm this sounds about right for my target. If it was then that's the best 15 minute session I have had to date.... Cheers Scott

[faulksy]

3 minutes ago, Scott Brown said:

The missus shouted on me and told me we had a clear sky, rushed out, got the Dob set up came in to get my eyepieces and some thin cloud came over. It cleared 20 minutes later and I jumped out and put on the 25mm (x48) went straight to the place where I looked the other night for Orion Nebular and seen 3 or 4 bright stars with a kind of greyish whispy clouding almost mist like around them.... It wasn't the clouds coming over because I looked at nearby stars and they were clear and when I went back to the target I seen the whisps again right away, then all of a sudden the clouds came over and light rain came on so scope back inside. I'm sure this was Orion's Nebular either that I'm buzzing over nothing. Can anyone confirm this sounds about right for my target. If it was then that's the best 15 minute session I have had to date.... Cheers Scott

this does sound like you have found it. it looks a bit like a set of bat wings, the central area with the 4 stars is the trapeizium, just to the right of it, the cloud (nebula) should be brighter.

wonderful sight

[estwing]

Yup I'd tick that box...from dark skies it's magical 

[Scott Brown]

Great that's one off my list then and the other good thing is that I can find it anytime I want now if the seeing is good, so chuffed. In fact I'm sitting inside with fingers crossed that I get a wee gap in the clouds and rain so I can nip out and see it again. Thanks guys

[Scott Brown]

Definitely it, just watched it for an hour..... What a wonderful sight.

[johnfosteruk]

23 minutes ago, Scott Brown said:

Definitely it, just watched it for an hour..... What a wonderful sight.

And that's the moment I love astronomy for

did you make a note of how many stars were resolved in the trapezium? If everything is right you should see the 4 main stars (A-D) but also two of them split nicely for E & F.

[Scott Brown]

9 minutes ago, johnfosteruk said:

And that's the moment I love astronomy for

did you make a note of how many stars were resolved in the trapezium? If everything is right you should see the 4 main stars (A-D) but also two of them split nicely for E & F.

There were 4 stars that seemed to be in the middle, 3 brighter ones and one that was just a little duller, also 2 or 3 to the side. Been hunting M51 for a few hour but no joy as yet and it's got a bit cloudy so I'll give it 20 minutes and see if it clears because Jupiter is rising with the moon

[Scytale]

13 hours ago, JOC said:

PHIL53 - that's a nice Messier list - I like the maps with it (printer currently working!).  However, the best bit is the printing is in B&W.  I didn't give one I printed out the other day a second thought and did it in the colours that had been on the screen at the time - I discovered when I wanted to use my printout in anger that it is very difficult to read red, yellow and light orange printing in the dark under a red torch!!!

I had a similar experience recently when I wrote down my list of targets using a red pen. Oops!

[Scott Brown]

I think I hit M51......

Finally put on my Rigel Quickfinder and aligned it up to the end star on Orion's Belt. Popped on my newly bought Meade SWA 5000 28mm ( which I must say gives me a very clear wide angle of the sky ) looked through my Rigel and targeted the Nebular went to my eyepiece and was right on it... Wow that was easy, so I thought to myself I wonder if I will have any luck with M51 as I didn't get close to finding it after a good few hours and few sessions trying, pointed the Rigel to where it is located and peeked through the EP...... No it can't be, is it?.... Well I could make out brightish stars at the edge of my view but in the middle looked like 2 dim stars quiete close to each other with a very faint fuzzy looking cloud surrounding them, the light at the left seemed to have more fuzz round it and the other one which was to the right and down slightly had a little less fuzz ( in my scope everything is upside down and back to front but I'm describing it as I see it through the EP ). Don't get me wrong these were dim with VERY light fuzziness round them but defiantly there. Was this M51, can anyone confirm or otherwise.

PS.... So impressed with the Rigel and SWA 28mm.... Can't understand why I used the stock finder up to now. Once again guys.... Thanks in advance... Scott

[JOC]

Hi Scott, after spending a good time hunting for them the other night I am of the opinion that M81 and M82 are figments of someone's imagination!! LOL

[Paz]

That is a good effort and even though you didn't see some targets you will appreciate them more when you do bag them. I have spent many hours looking for targets that I didn't find or couldn't see and  over time have got a reasonably good idea what is possible under different conditions.

[Cosmic Geoff]

On 3/13/2017 at 09:30, Scott Brown said:

Although I didn't get to find my targets this time it has made me more determined to find them next time so here's hoping for another chance soon. Can I put these failings down to a very bright Full Moon, it lit up the whole sky and was very close to Jupiter. How much difference does the full moon make to spotting things. I have spent all week finding out where M51, 81 and 82 are in the sky but couldn't see anything that resembled them.

So in short was it the Full Moon to blame or just my inexperience in the field.

I don't suppose the Moon helped. It is hard to see galaxies in other than dark-sky conditions. 

We tend to hear a lot about Dobs in this forum, but you have perhaps demonstrated why some of us spend some extra money to have GoTo. I had my 8" SCT GoTo out on Wednesday night, in moon-free conditions, and bagged: 14 double stars in Taurus, 5 star clusters, 1 nebula, 6 galaxies, and positively identified four 10th magnitude asteroids.  

With a manual 8" Newtonian I had, in the past, results as frustrating as yours.

[John]

14 hours ago, Scott Brown said:

I think I hit M51......

Finally put on my Rigel Quickfinder and aligned it up to the end star on Orion's Belt. Popped on my newly bought Meade SWA 5000 28mm ( which I must say gives me a very clear wide angle of the sky ) looked through my Rigel and targeted the Nebular went to my eyepiece and was right on it... Wow that was easy, so I thought to myself I wonder if I will have any luck with M51 as I didn't get close to finding it after a good few hours and few sessions trying, pointed the Rigel to where it is located and peeked through the EP...... No it can't be, is it?.... Well I could make out brightish stars at the edge of my view but in the middle looked like 2 dim stars quiete close to each other with a very faint fuzzy looking cloud surrounding them, the light at the left seemed to have more fuzz round it and the other one which was to the right and down slightly had a little less fuzz ( in my scope everything is upside down and back to front but I'm describing it as I see it through the EP ). Don't get me wrong these were dim with VERY light fuzziness round them but defiantly there. Was this M51, can anyone confirm or otherwise.

PS.... So impressed with the Rigel and SWA 28mm.... Can't understand why I used the stock finder up to now. Once again guys.... Thanks in advance... Scott

Sounds like you got M51 - it reminds me of two dim and fuzzy eyes staring back at me across space

If you can get your finders sorted, get a good star chart and have a nice wide eyepiece at your disposal, finding stuff becomes much easier and rewarding when you hit the mark too !

If you can pick up M81 and M82 (quite a bit easier than M51 and both brighter) you should be able to get both in the same field of view with your 28mm SWA. 2 Messiers for the price of 1

[kirkster501]

Great doc Phil53, thanks for sharing.

[Scott Brown]

On 17 March 2017 at 08:25, JOC said:

Hi Scott, after spending a good time hunting for them the other night I am of the opinion that M81 and M82 are figments of someone's imagination!! LOL

Haha JOC.... I know how you feel so imagine how I felt when I found them, it did  help having a wider view, I was also looking a little too low for them before but I've got it sussed now...... Scott

Miss read you JOC I was talking about M51 above, I haven't been near 81/82 yet but they will come soon.

[Scott Brown]

6 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

I don't suppose the Moon helped. It is hard to see galaxies in other than dark-sky conditions. 

We tend to hear a lot about Dobs in this forum, but you have perhaps demonstrated why some of us spend some extra money to have GoTo. I had my 8" SCT GoTo out on Wednesday night, in moon-free conditions, and bagged: 14 double stars in Taurus, 5 star clusters, 1 nebula, 6 galaxies, and positively identified four 10th magnitude asteroids.  

With a manual 8" Newtonian I had, in the past, results as frustrating as yours.

I love my Dob, the hunt makes the prize even better IMO. That is an amazing list for one night but I would never get that done in one sitting because I tend to sit and watch the same target for an hour at a time. My next scope will probably be a GoTo but at the moment the thrill is in the chase. I do like the idea of finding asteroids though.... Cheers Scott

[Scott Brown]

6 hours ago, John said:

Sounds like you got M51 - it reminds me of two dim and fuzzy eyes staring back at me across space

If you can get your finders sorted, get a good star chart and have a nice wide eyepiece at your disposal, finding stuff becomes much easier and rewarding when you hit the mark too !

If you can pick up M81 and M82 (quite a bit easier than M51 and both brighter) you should be able to get both in the same field of view with your 28mm SWA. 2 Messiers for the price of 1

Cheers John. M81/82 are next along with M31 and Saturn when the appear in my sky. It was defo M51 as I've looked at pictures of what you should see and it was exactly that and yes it does look like 2 dim fuzzy eyes now you mention it lol...... Scott