NEQ6 - Having serious doubts about Tracer LiPo Batteries.

[CKemu]

So recently purchased a 14ah Tracer battery from FLO for my ATIK414ex and Filterwheel, to compliment the 22ah battery I bought off of Amazon about a year ago for the mount/dew heater. The 14ah battery happily runs the camera/filter wheel and based off of a 6 hour test today, could probably go for two nights of imaging, GREAT!

However my concern is with the 22ah battery, as soon as the mount is engaged/tracking I get a blinking light on the mount, which I believe is a low voltage warning, and I noticed that EQmod had lost contact with the mount after a while, so I tested by unplugging the dew heater, no difference, still blinking.

Wondering if it was the battery, or mount, I then went back to my mains adapter from maplins, no blinking, and no communication loss.

Now the cable is a bit crap, if I jiggle it, the light will flicker, but upon checking the tracer battery, the meter says it still has 80% power left, (after 6 hours, that's awesome) but at that level there shouldn't be huge voltage drop off.

My conclusion is that the battery isn't up to scratch for this job, unless I am missing something, or anyone has any suggestions?

[johninderby]

Assume you mean LiFePo4 batteries. Not LiPo. 

Suspect it's a dodgy cable as the LiFePo4 batteries hold their output better than gel cell batteries and voltage only starts to drop off right at the very end of the charge. Are you using a T connecter to connect to the battery?

                 John

[ronin]

Do you mean you mean LiFePo4 or LiPo?

Someone posted a set of the discharge curves for the 22Ah LiPo Deben batteries (Tracer I believe) a while ago and they drop from above 12v to below in about 20 minutes. They also seem to start at about 12.4 volts, so not a lot in hand.

When they do drop rapidly the output is down at around 10.8 volts, then it plumets. However I guess the NEQ6 will have been flashing away well before that.

Not sure about the LiFePo4 ones.

 

Discharge curve 50W constant - BP2548.pdf

[Davey-T]

I use a Deben 22Ah LifePo battery to run my mount and it will do four nights without recharging.

Dave

[Mick J]

I think you may have to ask Tracer, the output voltage may be less than the NEQ6 likes regardless of specifications for each.

22ha tracer looks like Lipo unless I have the wrong link.

[geordie85]

On ‎05‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 18:25, CKemu said:

So recently purchased a 14ah Tracer battery from FLO for my ATIK414ex and Filterwheel, to compliment the 22ah battery I bought off of Amazon about a year ago for the mount/dew heater. The 14ah battery happily runs the camera/filter wheel and based off of a 6 hour test today, could probably go for two nights of imaging, GREAT!

However my concern is with the 22ah battery, as soon as the mount is engaged/tracking I get a blinking light on the mount, which I believe is a low voltage warning, and I noticed that EQmod had lost contact with the mount after a while, so I tested by unplugging the dew heater, no difference, still blinking.

Wondering if it was the battery, or mount, I then went back to my mains adapter from maplins, no blinking, and no communication loss.

Now the cable is a bit crap, if I jiggle it, the light will flicker, but upon checking the tracer battery, the meter says it still has 80% power left, (after 6 hours, that's awesome) but at that level there shouldn't be huge voltage drop off.

My conclusion is that the battery isn't up to scratch for this job, unless I am missing something, or anyone has any suggestions?

I know this is a year old thread but I'm having the same problem. 

I recently bought a tracer 22ah battery, charged it to full capacity and had a quick test on my Neq6. Everything turned on just fine and I had a solid red light on my mount, but as soon as I tried slewing the light started flashing and my mount just stopped.

I'd have thought these batteries would handle my mount with ease since my 17ah skywatcher battery can handle it, even if it's only for a couple of hours.

Any ideas anyone? Or is it not up to the job and I've wasted my money? If it cannot power my mount, what are the chances it can power a coldmos camera?

Edited March 9, 2018 by geordie85

[Graham Darke]

The experience of others in the past seemed to be that if it’s a LiPo (Lithium Polymer) then not so good for powering mounts. If it’s a LiFePo (Lithium Iron Phosphate) then they are fine. You might want to check which one you have. The naming of these things sound similar but the two types have different characteristics. To make things more confusing Tracer makes both types and they look identical. 

[fireballxl5]

I use a Tracer 16Ah LiFePO4 battery to power my NEQ6 mount and it works great. Before buying I did read about how the LiPo discharge profiles weren't suitable for some mounts. Maybe too late now for the OP but I'm sure that you'll find other uses for the battery you already have:)

[geordie85]

2 hours ago, Graham Darke said:

The experience of others in the past seemed to be that if it’s a LiPo (Lithium Polymer) then not so good for powering mounts. If it’s a LiFePo (Lithium Iron Phosphate) then they are fine. You might want to check which one you have. The naming of these things sound similar but the two types have different characteristics. To make things more confusing Tracer makes both types and they look identical. 

I've just checked the box (as it was bought 2nd hand from a gentleman on here) and it is the lithium polymer version. According to the seller it powered their Neq6 fine. Should have done some more research before impulse buying but I've just ordered a qhy183c so hopefully it'll power that just fine.

[hughgilhespie]

Hi,

The file attached shows the discharge curve for a (nominal) 12 volt LiFePO4 battery. The actual output voltage is above  12.5 volts right down to 90% discharged.

Regards, Hugh

SLAUMXLI20-12-TECH.pdf

[Mick J]

Interesting thread again Lipo and Lifepo4 batteries, having used Lipo in radio control models the cells are rated as nominal 3.7 volts, so stack 3 for 11.1 volts and 4 gets you 14.8 volts.   Looking online Lifepo4 seem to be nominal 3.2 volt cells, stack 4 to get 12.8 volts.  Slightly higher voltages when fresh off the charger.

I expect some sort of voltage regulator thingy would be used to adjust and control the 12 volt output,  and switch off the battery before over discharged, we never allowed our radio control Lipo to drop below 3.2 volts/cell, modern Lipo chargers refuse to charge over discharged cells.

[JeremyS]

This is a very interesting thread. I have a Tracer 12V 10Ah LiPo battery and have used it occasionally to power my NEQ6 when away from home. I tend not to slew about the sky: usually to one or two objects and then track for a few hours. All is well, but I guess I haven't pushed to its limits and I might not have dropped below the 12v threshold at that time. So I am going to order a Tracer 16Ah LiFePo4 in addition, just to be sure.

So if the LiPo isn't really suitable for the NEQ6, what can it usefully be used for? Dew heater? CCD?

 

[geordie85]

1 hour ago, JeremyS said:

This is a very interesting thread. I have a Tracer 12V 10Ah LiPo battery and have used it occasionally to power my NEQ6 when away from home. I tend not to slew about the sky: usually to one or two objects and then track for a few hours. All is well, but I guess I haven't pushed to its limits and I might not have dropped below the 12v threshold at that time. So I am going to order a Tracer 16Ah LiFePo4 in addition, just to be sure.

So if the LiPo isn't really suitable for the NEQ6, what can it usefully be used for? Dew heater? CCD?

 

As soon as I start slewing is when the voltage drops, I get a blinking red light on the mount and it stops working so I can't even do a 1 star alignment or even polar align with my polemaster. I've ordered a new cmos camera so I'm hoping I can power that with it. 

If not, I've got a very expensive brick.

[dph1nm]

The handset will tell you the voltage the mount is receiving (under utilities I think), so check that when you slew.

NigelM

[geordie85]

3 minutes ago, dph1nm said:

The handset will tell you the voltage the mount is receiving (under utilities I think), so check that when you slew.

NigelM

I'll give it a try tonight after work and report back if I manage to find the setting 

[Stub Mandrel]

LiPO owners could invest £1.31 in one of these, or maybe look for a higher power version (not sure if you need more than 2A continuous):

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-DC-XL6009-4A-Adjustable-Step-Up-Boost-Booster-Power-Converter-Module-Modul/253365978269?epid=17013071220&hash=item3afdca049d:g:BlgAAOSwbe5aWfLe

Vout has to be higher than Vin, so I would set Vout to 14.4V to mimic a fully charged lead acid battery, which the EQ6 should handle.

The only problem is a slight efficiency loss and also it will pump out the full voltage even when the battery is dead flat so you really ought to monitor the battery voltage to avoid over-discharging.

[geordie85]

17 hours ago, dph1nm said:

The handset will tell you the voltage the mount is receiving (under utilities I think), so check that when you slew.

NigelM

I just checked and the handset is claiming 11.6 stationary and drops to 9.4 when slewing at slew rate 9. It's a bit less higher when slewing at slew rate 5.

[Geoff Lister]

2 hours ago, geordie85 said:

I just checked and the handset is claiming 11.6 stationary and drops to 9.4 when slewing at slew rate 9. It's a bit less higher when slewing at slew rate 5.

The 2.2V drop indicates a significant circuit resistance. This may be due to (1) poor contact at one or more of the connectors; or (2) too long, or too thin, a cable between the battery and the mount. With a good 12V supply, I would expect to see close to 12V with the mount stationary, and less than 0.5V drop when slewing at maximum rate in both axes.

Geoff

[geordie85]

I'm led to believe the cables are the originals and the connections were as secure as they could be.

I may try ordering replacement cables to see if that fixes the problem I'm having. 

[Geoff Lister]

There is also the possibility that the wire is broken within the back of a connector. I have had this happen to me. The insulation is intact, but the wire core breaks inside the connector, and may give a high-resistance or intermittent contact. This is often difficult to find and correct without opening the connector.

Geoff

[geordie85]

12 minutes ago, Geoff Lister said:

There is also the possibility that the wire is broken within the back of a connector. I have had this happen to me. The insulation is intact, but the wire core breaks inside the connector, and may give a high-resistance or intermittent contact. This is often difficult to find and correct without opening the connector.

Geoff

I hope this is not the case as the seller claims to of only used it a handful of times and I don't want an expensive brick. As mentioned above the seller used it with their Neq6 without problems.

I'll order some new cables from tracer and hope it powers my camera (when it finally gets here) without any problems. 

[geordie85]

Update: My new power cable came today. (this one https://www.tracerpower.com/bullet-dc-plug-10x55mm-25-centreve.html) I've just tested it and all is right with the world. Power voltage on the synscan handset says 12.3v stationary and 12.2v when slewing at slew rate 9. 

Unfortunately the cable looks alot longer in the picture than it actually is. Not a great problem though since I can just sit the battery close to whatever its powering. 

Just waiting for my new camera now which I'm finding a bit annoying at the moment. The website I ordered from claimed to have them in stock when I ordered on Friday. It wasn't until late on Tuesday night that I received an email saying they are out of stock and will be until atleast next week, yet the website STILL claims to have them in stock.

Edited March 15, 2018 by geordie85

[Mick J]

Great result with the cable, cheaper than buying a new Lifepo4 battery.

It seems to me that the NEQ6 needs a bit more voltage than a lot of other items, I wonder if Tracer could adjust the output up a bit on the Lipo type to suit the mount, something like Neil (Stub) suggested (boosterthing) above and I am sure Tracer would have built in low voltage protection - all our radio control gear soon did and that was years ago.

[geordie85]

Yes it is. I'm very happy to have sorted out the issue. Now it's just a waiting game for my camera and clear, moonless skies.