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Understanding Integrated Flux Nebulae


scarp15

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Perhaps the most commonly known and easiest IFN to observe is the Pleiades Bubble, in which vast dimly glowing areas of gas and cloud are visible as faint patches. Integrated Flux Nebulae is currently a hot topic of conversation and discussion on the Cloudy Nights forum. It would be interesting to learn of and gain more understanding as to what constitutes an IFN and feedback from any observational challenges. This pioneering area of visual astronomer is being led and promoted by Mel Bartels, see link below.

 http://bbastrodesigns.com/Hershels Ghosts.html

NELM 6+ skies, complete dark adaption, a large exit pupil, low power / wide field eyepiece and fast (or very fast) small and moderate sized scope (no filter) will assist to discern low brightness and contrast features. IFN areas are in abundance, such as I believe, areas to investigate within the vicinity of M81/ M82 and M13. These faint waves of galactic clouds - light reflected off dust, are difficult to capture on camera due to very long exposure times required, so in the right circumstances are primarily in the domain for a challenging pursuit, of the visual astronomer. 

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I know a guy in the UK who is looking to get a small ultra fast scope for hunting this stuff down. People don't seem to like making crazy fast small mirrors. Just goes to show that there is plenty of cool stuff that Big Dobs aren't well suited for ;-)

Of course these types of objects demand pristine transparent skies, something we don't have in large supply in the U.K.

PEter

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2 hours ago, scarp15 said:

are difficult to capture on camera due to very long exposure times required, so in the right circumstances are primarily in the domain for a challenging pursuit, of the visual astronomer. 

I struggle to believe that, with the same scope and conditions, the eye can detect anything a camera can't.

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I can see the Pleiades Bubble and am taking time to identify the many features seen, it seems to take me a while.I'm working on tracing the dark routes and dust around the Merope which leads me quite far away.

Just a note to the dust (IFN) hunters out there- Large AFOV (100 deg) might play a role in seeing this easier, regardless of the true field, but a large true field is a huge asset.

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Imagers do all sorts of "magik" with their data and tend to only look at small objects.... for those that have looked wider there are some amazing large "dusty" stuff  out there... stuff that no visual person could ever see, only the brightest bits hints can be seen.

PEterW

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18 minutes ago, jetstream said:

A 200mm f3.8 newt obstructed 31% and I use a 30mm ES 82 for a 3.3 deg TFOV and dark adapted my entrance pupil is around 7mm. I'm looking at the 25mm ES 100...

Amazing that you can see this stuff Gerry, your 'stubby' scope must really help.

I've read very mixed things about the 25mm 100 degree ES. I guess there must be a reason that TV didn't make one?

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18 minutes ago, Stu said:

Amazing that you can see this stuff Gerry, your 'stubby' scope must really help.

I've read very mixed things about the 25mm 100 degree ES. I guess there must be a reason that TV didn't make one?

Thanks Stu, the little scope does work and will only get better... :)

Yes there are some pretty negative reports on this EP and is why I don't own one yet. However it seems as if some of the aberration's mentioned might not effect low power views with a filter. I'm waiting for some one to clarify this!

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5 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Need a faster scope to use the shorter length Ethos.... ;-)

PEterW

Ah yes, but then we have the increasing CO to deal with...:icon_biggrin: and decreasing fully illuminated field... I have some ideas and Lockwood touches on these scopes on CN and may make some mirrors.

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Correct me if im wrong, but I was pretty sure "integated flux" was the term coined to describe dust/gas that is of a high galactic latitude (ie: almost external to the MW) that is not illuminated by any stars within or nearby the dust, but illuminated by the glow of the galaxy itself - so the dust surrounding M45 cannot be described as IFN (as its well within the MW).... its just regular ordinary dust thats part of the Taurus molecular cloud.

http://www.galaxyimages.com/UNP_IFNebula.html

True IFN (ie: that located near the polar spur), is far harder to image than the dust surrounding M45. And I severely doubt it could ever be observed directly.

30440151514_1f76c115bf_b.jpg

 

Edit: here is an image from the above linked page to provide a better overview:

IFPolarSpurDust.jpg

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Exactly right Rob, I have called the Pleiades Bubble IFN but it is really interstellar medium -ISM- my mistake. Bartels correctly identifies the difference in his articles. If we have a chance to see IFN it will be near M82 I think and I hope to have a chance when the moon clears.

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2 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Exactly right Rob, I have called the Pleiades Bubble IFN but it is really interstellar medium -ISM- my mistake. Bartels correctly identifies the difference in his articles. If we have a chance to see IFN it will be near M82 I think and I hope to have a chance when the moon clears.

Good luck with that ;) its devilishly difficult to image (barely sits above the noise) so observing it would require perfect conditions, an absurdly fast telescope, a super dark site, and maybe a fair amount of averted imagination :D

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On 04/03/2017 at 23:24, Uranium235 said:

(Barely sits above the noise)

I'm guessing that the eye/brain doesn't have noise or deal with contrast in the same way as a CCD so perhaps that makes it possible under ideal conditions (which Gerry has)?

Emphasis on guessing :) 

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