Help me spend some money :)

[BGazing]

Nothing better than helping people spend some money, right? It’s cloudy outside… and I need some advice on possible future EP purchases/upgrades.

The two scopes I use are SCT 8 (upgraded to clicklock 2’ and therefore at about f/10.95 and 2224mm of focal length according to YKSE’s calculations) and Borg 71FL, f/5.6 with 400mm of focal length.

EP lineup is 40mm Paragon, 31mm Baader Aspheric, 24mm ES 68, Baader Zoom 8-24, 15 mm Synta Gold, ES 8.8 82 deg, ES 4.7 82deg.

In the little Borg I go as light as possible (balance, ultraportable setup), so the Eps are 24mm, 15mm, 8.8 and 4.7. 15mm Synta Gold is meh and has a lot of FC, ES eyepieces deal with it better. 82 deg is mighty useful since the setup is undriven.

In the SCT8 Paragon 40mm is good, Aspheric 31mm transparent and good to about 80 percent of the field. No alternatives there for me unless I go into 1kg territory and I really am not up for that.

The rest is handled by zoom and (if necessary) 8.8 for some high mag. Zoom is okay for planetary, if a bit soft when compared to fixed length EPs. Above 12mm the field gets narrow. Nothing horrible, but depriving some nice globulars and the like of context.

I do not like barlows.

So here are some plans and some further dilemmas.

I will definitely go for 3.5 Nagler for the Borg. ES is not doing a 3.5, I hate barlows (I said that, right) and I like the idea of as wide a field as possible in a compact EP. Eye relief of 12mm is nothing to be extatic about but I guess the effective ER is better than in the two ES short length EPs I already have.

My real dilemma is the mid and high power for the SCT8, would like to wean myself a bit from the zoom.

Not really sure whether I should park at around 130x or 160x for those  good looks at the globulars. Around 11-14 mm is where my seeing normally ends on planets under normal circumstances.

What to go for? Delos 17.3 and leave the shorter FLs for now for the zoom and 8.8?

Or Delos 14 and Delos 10? Or Delos 14 and Delite/Nagler11 where either of the two could be also used with the Borg? Or Nagler 13 and Delite/Delos 10? Or just go completely bonkers and pull a trigger on Ethos 13 and weep. Aaarrghh.

Delos and Ethos would not be usable in Borg. Too heavy. But I like the idea of Delos (and the crazy idea of Ethos)…70 deg looks very nice, 82 deg in ES more like ‘convenient’ than nice…100 degs looked pretty good held against the outside daylight.

Before you go with the normal ‘try it first at the star party’, you have to realize that a) there are not that many star parties here and hardly anyone owns a TV eyepiece. Had a look in a store across the border, so I kinda know how TV EPs feel in the hand and when looked through, but not really used in the field.

I am all ears. J

[Louis D]

You have a pretty decent monovision lineup already.  Have you consider getting an entry level binoviewer?  I've found mine to be great on the moon and other solar system objects.  I use the optics section from a Meade 140 2x barlow to reach focus rather than the included barlow units.

[BGazing]

Yes, Denis already advised. I am trying to postpone that sickness for...2018.

[Louis D]

I have strong astigmatism, so I have to view with eyeglasses.  Thus, I prefer long eye relief eyepieces.  As far as premium eyepieces in the low to mid focal length range, I have 5.2mm and 14mm Pentax XLs, 3.5mm and 7mm XWs, a 10mm TV Delos, a 14mm Baader Morpheus, 12mm and 17mm Nagler T4s, a 17mm ES-92, and the original Speers-Waler 5-8mm zoom.

Highly recommended: the 5.2mm XL is still great on resolving globulars nearly 20 years after I bought it, the 10mm Delos is super flat and sharp to the edge, and the 17mm ES-92 is breathtaking in that the view is there all at once, resembles looking through a window and is sharp to the edge and flat of field.

Decent: the 3.5mm XW is superb, just too small of an exit pupil for my floaters.  The 7mm just rubs me the wrong way.  It's kind of hard to hold the view.  The 14mm XL has field curvature but is sharp to the edge once refocused.  The 14mm Morpheus has a noticeably larger field than the Delos and XW but has some field curvature and slight astigmatism once refocused for the edge.  The SW zoom is sharp and flat to the edge, but only has about 10mm of eye relief.  However, it's a hoot to zoom in on targets at high power.

Avoid: the two Nagler T4s are pretty much sharp to the edge and mostly flat of field, but are a pain to hold the view.  If you push in to get the entire field of view and push in just a fraction of a mm more, it starts to blackout.  Tiring and unsatisfying are the two adjectives I'd use to describe them.  I plan to sell the 17mm soon and the 12mm once I get the 12mm ES-92.

[alanjgreen]

When I had a C8, i used/experienced Delos 10,12,14 & 17.3 EPs.

The 10 was mainly for globs, it cracks them very nicely. But had limited use beyond that. At over x200. (& I see you already have 8.8mm)

The 14 & 17.3 got much more use and were really good in the C8. 17.3 is a good place for galaxies. 14 just gives a bit more when you need it. Then the 14 & 12 got plenty of use on Jupiter/Saturn.

You have the 8-24 zoom, what are the focal lengths that stand out for you when viewing? I started with a Baader 8-24 (in my C8) and that pointed me at 10-16 range.

As you already have as ES8.8, I would probably start with the Delos 17.3 and work down from there.

I had an Aspheric31 - wait till you see the "black background" of the Delos. The Asperic will be up for sale - believe me I couldn't use mine anymore - it looked so washed out when compared to the Delos. I moved on to another green&black, this time a panoptic41 (C8 match made in heaven).

If you see a used Ethos13 come up 2nd hand, then that may float your boat! (its too much mag for my C11, but its great in my Borg89).

 

[BGazing]

 

8 hours ago, alanjgreen said:

You have the 8-24 zoom, what are the focal lengths that stand out for you when viewing? I started with a Baader 8-24 (in my C8) and that pointed me at 10-16 range.

As you already have as ES8.8, I would probably start with the Delos 17.3 and work down from there.

I had an Aspheric31 - wait till you see the "black background" of the Delos. The Asperic will be up for sale - believe me I couldn't use mine anymore - it looked so washed out when compared to the Delos. I moved on to another green&black, this time a panoptic41 (C8 match made in heaven).

If you see a used Ethos13 come up 2nd hand, then that may float your boat! (its too much mag for my C11, but its great in my Borg89).

 

With the zoom, I guess it is helpful when aligning, but after that it is okay on planets, but not that wide on globs and the like in mid range. So 17.3 suggestion seems pertinent. Ethos is huge in that FL, Delos less so. 

As for Aspheric 31, I guess it is to be expected of a 17mm Delos to have a much darker background, by default...correct.

Ethos 13...now that one would have the FOV of Delos 17, so it is practically either/or. How do you manage to balance your 89ED with that bazooka LOL....

[John]

Choices, choices

Ethos 13 = 590 grams

Delos 17.3 = 408 grams

Nagler 13 = 181 grams

 

 

[BGazing]

I know. Surprisingly, Ethos 13 did not 'feel' that heavy in the hand, perhaps because one expects it to be even heavier, given the size. 

Nagler would sweetly be used in Borg as well.

17.3 Delos for galaxies perhaps and some smaller clusters. 128x does not really cut it for most of the globs and is not for the planets or the moon. But then again, galaxies are reserved in 8 inch for some really dark sky, if even then. Just trying to figure out whether 17.3 is redundant and jump to 13-14 immediately. 

14mm is 158x, enough for Jupiter and globs. 13mm is 170x, ditto.

Btw how does that 2/1.25 thingie work at the bottom of Ethos? Does not look smart, but I guess it is, right?

[John]

56 minutes ago, BGazing said:

Btw how does that 2/1.25 thingie work at the bottom of Ethos? Does not look smart, but I guess it is, right?

It's a hybrid 1.25" / 2" barrel. Quite a few eyepieces use this design. It's most often seen with 1.25" format eyepieces which are large and heavy so would benefit from being in a 2" focuser / diagonal. I use my Ethos in 2" mode generally with a 2" extension so that I can use 2" filters with them. The 13mm will work in 1.25" mode but it looks a little precarious in a 1.25" diagonal. There is a screw supplied with it to press on the side of a 1.25" drawtube but I've left that in the eyepiece box. There is also a slot cut in the 2" skirt so that you can get at the set screw in a 1.25" drawtube / diagonal:

 

[BGazing]

Thanks. It does look a bit bizarre, from this angle it is almost like the 2 inch barrel that covers the 1.25 tube...how do you tighten the screw or the clicklock adapter with it? I will try looking for online videos, there has to be one.  

So the picture a couple of posts above is without the 2inch extension...and the extension has to be...purchased separately?

[alanjgreen]

The picture couple of posts above is the eyepiece as delivered.

there is no 2" extension needed.

the whole 2" silver base that you see in that pic drops into the 2" focuser.

some folks have added a 20mm extension to allow them to fit 2" filters. The as purchased eyepiece only accepts 1.25" filters.

an extension may also protect the mirror diagonal from being hit by the 1.25 inch piece as it would stop the eyepiece dropping down as far into the diagonal.

i have baader clicklock 2" diagonal and Williams optics dielectric diagonal and neither have any issues accepting the eyepiece in its delivered configuration in full 2" format. I do not use the eyepiece in 1.25 inch mode.

i just measured the distance from the bottom of the 1.25" end to the top of the 2" fitting. It's 40mm. You need this much clearance in you diagonal or otherwise you need to fit the 2" extension cover. Revelation do one for £7 at Telescope House.

i also measured the paracorr2 at 43mm so the E13 will fit without the need for an extension- Phew!

[John]

3 hours ago, BGazing said:

Thanks. It does look a bit bizarre, from this angle it is almost like the 2 inch barrel that covers the 1.25 tube...how do you tighten the screw or the clicklock adapter with it? I will try looking for online videos, there has to be one.  

So the picture a couple of posts above is without the 2inch extension...and the extension has to be...purchased separately?

The photo below shows the slot cut into the 2" barrel to allow access to a set screw in a 1.25" diagonal or drawtube. I use a Baader 28mm Fine Tuning Ring to extend the 2" barrel so that 2" filters will clear the 1.25" barrel. Tele Vue do their own 2" barrel extension but it's somewhat more expansive than the Baader FT ring.

Tele Vue don't supply the extension with the eyepiece so, as Alan says, as standard with the 13mm, 10mm, 8mm and 6mm Ethos you can only fit 1.25" filters. The 21mm and 17mm Ethos have 2" only barrels and the 4.7mm and 3.7mm Ethos SX have removable 2" barrels which leave a 1.25" barrel underneath so you can use either 1.25" or 2" filters with those.

Can the 1.25" barrel sections be removed from the 13mm, 10mm, 8mm and 6mm ? - no because they house the lower lens sets which complete the optical design of the eyepiece.

 

[Louis D]

4 hours ago, John said:

The photo below shows the slot cut into the 2" barrel to allow access to a set screw in a 1.25" diagonal or drawtube.

Does anyone ever use that set screw to tighten against the outside of the 1.25" diagonal eyepiece holder?  I removed mine from my 12mm Nagler T4 and stored it away in the original eyepiece box.

Whoever manufactured the Astro Tech AF70 dual fit 1.25"/2" eyepieces got it right.  The 2" barrel screws completely off for 1.25" usage.  Either barrel can accept filters because the 2" barrel protrudes below the 1.25" barrel.

[John]

23 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Does anyone ever use that set screw to tighten against the outside of the 1.25" diagonal eyepiece holder?  I removed mine from my 12mm Nagler T4 and stored it away in the original eyepiece box.

Whoever manufactured the Astro Tech AF70 dual fit 1.25"/2" eyepieces got it right.  The 2" barrel screws completely off for 1.25" usage.  Either barrel can accept filters because the 2" barrel protrudes below the 1.25" barrel.

I've taken the set screws off all my Ethos eyepieces and they are stored in their respective boxes just as you did with the 12mm T4.

Interesting that TV went for the removable 2" barrel approach on the Ethos SX eyepieces so maybe they changed their mind about that aspect of the design ?

The Myriad / Lunt / William Optics XWA 100 / 110 degree eyepieces also use the removable 2" barrel option. On the whole I prefer it to the fixed hybrid barrel approach.

 

 

 

[BGazing]

Just off the eye exam, seems like I have some astigmatism kicking in so those TV EPs with the Dioptrix capability look like good investments for the future.

[BGazing]

On 22/02/2017 at 13:03, John said:

Choices, choices

Ethos 13 = 590 grams

Delos 17.3 = 408 grams

Nagler 13 = 181 grams

 

 

Coming back to this and agonizing.  What a picture, pure torture.

Ethos 13, then...something like Delos 17 or Delite 18, coupled with Delite 11/Delos 10

or

Delos 14, then Delos 17/Delite 18, Delos 12

 

[BGazing]

On 22/02/2017 at 00:36, alanjgreen said:

When I had a C8, i used/experienced Delos 10,12,14 & 17.3 EPs.

The 10 was mainly for globs, it cracks them very nicely. But had limited use beyond that. At over x200. (& I see you already have 8.8mm)

The 14 & 17.3 got much more use and were really good in the C8. 17.3 is a good place for galaxies. 14 just gives a bit more when you need it. Then the 14 & 12 got plenty of use on Jupiter/Saturn.

You have the 8-24 zoom, what are the focal lengths that stand out for you when viewing? I started with a Baader 8-24 (in my C8) and that pointed me at 10-16 range.

As you already have as ES8.8, I would probably start with the Delos 17.3 and work down from there.

 

 

had a pretty odd night, pickering 2-3, had to knock down jupiter to 100-120 and, given that the sky was not that bad (20.6) looked for some galaxies.

17.3 just begs to be taken...galaxies looked best at that length in the zoom...and it was a good spot for jupiter in bad/mediocre seeing. i will work my way down from there, as suggested.

[BGazing]

Delos 17.3 arrived, alongside Nagler 3.5 for the Borg, my first TV EPs. My wallet hurts, but I gotta treat my favourite person (me) for birthday...

Of course, it is raining.

They are compact and well done, just solid feel to them, compact but weighty. Delos top cap is iffy and the rubber guard has to be down for it to be put on. Daytime check indicates that I might have to use Delos all the way down in order to see the field stop. Could be my recessed eyes...

[John]

I have the Delos 17.3. It's a great eyepiece. I find the top cap will stay on with the rubber eyecup up. I don't wear glasses to observe and find I need the eyepiece in the fully extended position. In lower positions I find I start to see some blackouts.

 

[BGazing]

15 minutes ago, John said:

 I find the top cap will stay on with the rubber eyecup up. 

 

Either they changed the top caps or I am doing something wrong. If the eye guard is down, it will sorta stay, but not firmly. As soon as the eyeguard is up, it slides off easily. Mhm.

[John]

The top cap on mine is the TV dual size one. One side fits the 2" barrels and the other the rubber eyecup of several TV eyepiece models including the 17.3mm Delos.

They are not what I would call a firm fit though. To be honest none of my TV eyepieces have top caps that you would call a firm fit.