Scope and Mount advice (Skymax 127 and Explorer 150p)

[davyludo]

Hello fellow stargazers - I'm looking for some advice/guidance from you friendly people.

First of all....apologies in advance for ANOTHER Skymax 127 vs Explorer 150p post. I have read quite a few posts to try and find the opinions and answers that I'm looking for....but I still need your help. Also, sorry for the long post.

A little background: I currently own a 76mm/700mm Newtonian, which was bought for me as a gift and has been a great wee scope for me to decide whether this hobby is for me. Last year I decided that it was something that I wanted to get into more and started looking for a newer, larger scope. I looked on FLO's beginner scopes section, read a load of reviews and decided that a Skyliner 200p dob was the one for me.....

Upon reflection, I realised that although I would love this telescope...it might not be suitable for my current circumstances. I'm currently living in a flat, so storage space is kind of limited, and in order to use the scope I'd have to carry it down 4 sets of stairs and take it somewhere. I know I'd end up being lazy and just not bothering, and I feel that it's not worth it if I'm not going to use it. I may well get one in the future once I have a house and a garden.

My requirements: I decided I needed to think about my requirements at the moment before I could pick something.

• Cost - around £400.
• A scope that is capable of showing me a little bit of everything (I understand this is a touchy point because no scope can do everything, but I'm still trying to find what I like to view the most. Not looking for super performance in any one area of observing).
• Easy to store (something that will sit happily in the corner until I grab it and take it out....or open the window and point it out).
• Portable (able to carry OTA and Mount at the same time - probably less than 15kg combined).
• Quick to set up (currently use an AZ mount and I like the ability to just plonk it down and start viewing - don't think I want an EQ just now, would rather save up and get a good one in the future if I decide I want to try AP). 

Skymax 127: I kind of got locked onto to the "small and portable" aspect of my search and came across the Skywatcher Skymax 127 (https://www.firstlightoptics.com/az-goto/skywatcher-skymax-127-synscan-az-goto.html). I did some reading and it looks like this is a great little scope and seems to have a good following on SGL. During my research, there were a few points that made me think that it might not be the right scope for me though: 

• Smaller FOV (I've used the FOV calculator tool on https://astronomy.tools/ to get an idea of FOV with the eyepieces I have (x-cel 5, 9 and 25mm) - personally I think I'd prefer a wider FOV for now, especially since I'm still learning the skies).
• Cool down time (I like to be able to set up and start viewing, the fact that I'd probably be doing higher mag viewing with the Mak means that I might not get away with starting to view straight away).
• Dew (never had to deal with this on my current scope so had never really thought about it, worried it'll ruin a nights viewing....and those can be few and far between in Edinburgh!) 
• Accessories (I reckon I'd probably need to buy a powertank, dew shield and maybe dew heaters. This would take me over my £400 budget (maybe not by a lot) but it's also additional kit that I need to transport and setup).
• Mount (I wasn't looking for a GOTO as I think it'll make me lazy and not learn to read the sky. I also like to be able to just dip about between clouds if required. The requirement for a powertank puts me off). 

Explorer 150p: I decided to look at a Newtonian (because I had some experience with the style) to help me compare against the Skymax 127. I originally came across the Explorer 130p, but I thought the 150p would be a better upgrade and would last me longer (more likely to keep it rather than decide I want to upgrade from a 130 to a 150 in a years time). Again I did some research and it looks like this is a good scope and has a strong following on here. I found this on FLO : https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-150p-az4-mount.html

I also like the fact this above kit comes with the AZ4 mount, as I think this is more what I was originally looking for (before I got carried away with all the shiny gadgets you can get for the Skymax). The only real concerns that I have with the 150p is: 

• It's physically bigger (probably not quite as portable as the Mak - but certainly still portable compared to something like the 200p dob (in my opinion)).
• Collimiation  (specifically in the dark. My current scope doesn't stay in collimation very well so I'm used to having to do it often. I've never taken current scope to darker skies, but it's been in the car a few times when I've taken it to a family members garden...and it's been totally out by the time I've got there). However I have a cheshire and a red torch....so I'm sure I could manage. 

 

After writing all of this (apart from now needing a cup of tea!) I feel that it looks like the Explorer 150p is probably more suitable for what I'm looking for (think it helped writing it all down). However I would really appreciate some advice, especially on whether my concerns about the Skymax are ridiculous and I'm making it worse in my head than it really is. I'd also love some advice on how well the 150p stays in collimation and how portable people find it - I understand this is kind of subjective though. I was thinking about getting back into wild camping and hillwalking this year, so this would give me darked skies, and the Mak would probably be easier to pack in the car with my stuff....suppose I could always buy a cheap secondhand Skymax 102 and stick it on the AZ4...surely that would be considered portable! 

I've not looked at refractors because my understanding is that I would need to spend more money for similar views (I have no knowledge about them though, so would happily be educated if someone thinks I should consider one).

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this and provide me with your expert advice 

 

Cheers, 

Davy

[Peter Drew]

They are both good telescopes with few compromises. My vote would go to the 150p but on a Dobsonian mount as it would be inherently more stable. It would also be well under budget leaving you scope for some nice accessories which could be moved forward to any upgrade. It should be possible to carry the complete setup in one go and the storage footprint is quite small. 

[Astro Imp]

Hi Davy, I am not in a position to comment on the Skymax as I've never used one but I can give my views on the 150P

Until recently this was the scope I had used for some time albeit on an equatorial mount.

First I think you are very wise to consider an alt/az  mount, knowing what I do now I wouldn't have started with an equatorial mount for visual astronomy. IMO an equatorial mount is only needed for AP.

Regarding collimation, my scope came ready collimated out of the box and in the years I used it never needed touching.

These are just my views, others may differ.

Good luck and take your time.

 

[davyludo]

Thanks for your input guys. 

Peter - I hadn't thought about a 150p dob. Are you thinking more along the lines of https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/skywatcher-skyliner-150p-dobsonian.html rather than the shorter 750mm Explorer 150p? Would be lovely to have some money left over from my budget to buy other goodies! 

 

Alan - it's good to know that you didn't have to collimate yours all the time like I'm having to do just now. And that you're saying it's ok to not want an EQ! I was worried that this would be a bit of a controversial opinion as it seems like a lot of people use EQs...I just don't think it's for me (just now). I'd rather learn the skies and enjoy visual viewing before embarking on AP and having to take the time to align an EQ.

 

Cheers, 

Davy

[spillage]

I have the celestron 127 so it's the same as the skywatcher one. You can pick up a skywatcher power pack cheap enough and this will also double up as a torch and it has multiple power connections.

You can also if really needed run it off AA batteries.

[davyludo]

3 minutes ago, spillage said:

I have the celestron 127 so it's the same as the skywatcher one. You can pick up a skywatcher power pack cheap enough and this will also double up as a torch and it has multiple power connections.

You can also if really needed run it off AA batteries.

I noticed from your signature that you also have a 150pds. Is this strictly for AP or do you use it for general viewing? 

[spillage]

Hi Davy

No I only really do AP now. I probably need to dust down the 127 and use it or lose it.

I think things depend on how you are using your scope. At home or at a remote site.

The 127 will probably never need collimating unless you drop it and you may find the goto helps you locate objects in the sky easier. Using goto is a well documented discussion.

I found it more helpful and for me I learnt allot more with it. It took away any doubt that I may be looking in the wrong area and used along side cdc or stellerium taught me to locate and get to know more targets.

I too started with a really basic 76/700 (still have it) and the 127 was my first real purchase. I also purchased a neximage 5 and this lead me onto the eq mounts as I started to observer less and less and do more and more ap.

 

[laudropb]

The 150p Dob will be difficult to take down 4 sets of stairs and takes up just about the same storage space as the 200p. I think you would be better with the 127 Mak in your circumstances and that comes fro a big fan of the Dob.

[davyludo]

7 minutes ago, spillage said:

Hi Davy

No I only really do AP now. I probably need to dust down the 127 and use it or lose it.

I think things depend on how you are using your scope. At home or at a remote site.

The 127 will probably never need collimating unless you drop it and you may find the goto helps you locate objects in the sky easier. Using goto is a well documented discussion.

I found it more helpful and for me I learnt allot more with it. It took away any doubt that I may be looking in the wrong area and used along side cdc or stellerium taught me to locate and get to know more targets.

I too started with a really basic 76/700 (still have it) and the 127 was my first real purchase. I also purchased a neximage 5 and this lead me onto the eq mounts as I started to observer less and less and do more and more ap.

 

Thanks - that's really useful information...I hadn't thought about using the GOTO as an aid....I just assumed it would make me lazy. I guess I was also concerned about the accuracy of it, with the 127 having a narrowed FOV. But I guess they wouldn't sell them together if it wasn't suitable. 

As for the 127 - were you able to start viewing straight away, or did you have to wait for it to cool down? Would I just get a slightly blurry image if I was viewing before the 127 had cooled? Kind of just like atmospheric turbulence? 

I think I'll go and have a wee read about GOTO stuff. 

Cheers, 
Davy

[davyludo]

3 minutes ago, laudropb said:

The 150p Dob will be difficult to take down 4 sets of stairs and takes up just about the same storage space as the 200p. I think you would be better with the 127 Mak in your circumstances and that comes fro a big fan of the Dob.

Yeah - that is something that had crossed my mind (size difference might not be as much as I originally thought). Suppose it would save me having to go to the gym.... 

 

Would you say that dew and cool down is really an issue with the 127? Or am I needlessly worrying about something that actually isn't really an issue? I guess it's just because my only experience is with a Newt....fear of change! 

 

Cheers, 

Davy

[laudropb]

I have a dew shield for mine and I think this is absolutely necessary. I also store it in a unheated garage, but yes you will have to let it cool to the ambient temperature to get the best views.

[Cosmic Geoff]

4 hours ago, davyludo said:

Would you say that dew and cool down is really an issue with the 127? Or am I needlessly worrying about something that actually isn't really an issue? I guess it's just because my only experience is with a Newt....fear of change! 

I have a 127 Maksutov. The Mak needs a dew shield in the UK climate - after a year or so I gave in and made one out of cardboard.  I have not found that it has more of a cooling issue than any other scope. They all need to cool to ambient for best results.

[davyludo]

7 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

I have a 127 Maksutov. The Mak needs a dew shield in the UK climate - after a year or so I gave in and made one out of cardboard.  I have not found that it has more of a cooling issue than any other scope. They all need to cool to ambient for best results.

I guess that's the key point I should be thinking about...."for best results". Doesn't mean I can't use it after 5 minutes...just means I won't get the best views until the OTA has reached thermal equilibrium. 

Thanks for your help 

[Geoff Lister]

Davy,

I have owned, for a few years, both a Skymax 127 MCT and a Skyliner 250PX flex-tube Dobsonian. They both use the Synscan control system, so alignment takes about the same time for both.

The Skymax is very much a "grab-and-go", whereas I would not want to lug the 2 sections of the Skyliner up, or down, more than 1 flight of stairs. I have recently moved their storage to the end of my garage and the 20-yard horizontal move, to my preferred viewing position on the patio, is a doddle for both 'scopes.

I have just bought a Celestron Skyprodigy 70. I got mine, new, for under £200, delivered. I believe that Celestron has discontinued this variant, hence the low price. The mount is essentially the same as used on the Skymax, but I have found that the Star Sense automatic alignment works faster, for me, than the Synscan's 2 or 3 star more manual alignment. The Synscan system has the edge if you want to align the 'scope at dusk, as it is usually possible to find a few bright stars (particularly through the finder-scope) almost half an hour before it becomes dark-enough for the Skyprodigy's camera to recognise a star pattern. For either system, once aligned, tracking and with the desired object in the centre of a 25mm eyepiece, you can go in for tea (and a warm up), and the object should still be visible, somewhere in the field of view, when you return, refreshed.

Having checked that it worked with the, supplied, 70mm refractor, I shortened the plastic cover over the dovetail clamp, removed the clamp's backstop pin, and attached the Skymax 127 optical assembly. It also works with my Celestron Astromaster 130 Newtonian tube (giving a setup very similar to the Skyprodigy 130).

The front lens of the MCT is a definite dew-magnet, but Cosmic Geoff's bent cardboard tube dew shield seems to work for me, with a couple of Velcro straps to help keep its shape and stop it drooping into the viewing area.

Regards,

Geoff

[davyludo]

2 hours ago, Geoff Lister said:

Davy,

I have owned, for a few years, both a Skymax 127 MCT and a Skyliner 250PX flex-tube Dobsonian. They both use the Synscan control system, so alignment takes about the same time for both.

The Skymax is very much a "grab-and-go", whereas I would not want to lug the 2 sections of the Skyliner up, or down, more than 1 flight of stairs. I have recently moved their storage to the end of my garage and the 20-yard horizontal move, to my preferred viewing position on the patio, is a doddle for both 'scopes.

I have just bought a Celestron Skyprodigy 70. I got mine, new, for under £200, delivered. I believe that Celestron has discontinued this variant, hence the low price. The mount is essentially the same as used on the Skymax, but I have found that the Star Sense automatic alignment works faster, for me, than the Synscan's 2 or 3 star more manual alignment. The Synscan system has the edge if you want to align the 'scope at dusk, as it is usually possible to find a few bright stars (particularly through the finder-scope) almost half an hour before it becomes dark-enough for the Skyprodigy's camera to recognise a star pattern. For either system, once aligned, tracking and with the desired object in the centre of a 25mm eyepiece, you can go in for tea (and a warm up), and the object should still be visible, somewhere in the field of view, when you return, refreshed.

Having checked that it worked with the, supplied, 70mm refractor, I shortened the plastic cover over the dovetail clamp, removed the clamp's backstop pin, and attached the Skymax 127 optical assembly. It also works with my Celestron Astromaster 130 Newtonian tube (giving a setup very similar to the Skyprodigy 130).

The front lens of the MCT is a definite dew-magnet, but Cosmic Geoff's bent cardboard tube dew shield seems to work for me, with a couple of Velcro straps to help keep its shape and stop it drooping into the viewing area.

Regards,

Geoff

Hi Geoff, 

Thanks for your input. Yeah I thought the Skyliner range would be a bit more difficult to carry about - which is why I was thinking about the Explorer range instead as it is shorter (750mm focal length) and lighter. I think the Explorer 150p tube is about 5kg and the Skymax 127 tube is 3.4kg, whereas the Skyliner 200p tube is 11kg (which is why I don't think this is a suitable scope for my current circumstances) then obviously add a mount to that. 

The only things that are really putting me off the MCT are the cool down time and combating dew. 

I'm starting to think that I'm going to end up with more than one telescope 

Just finding this decision quite difficult...there's just too much choice! 

Cheers, 

Davy

[spillage]

I just use a cut off from an old camping mat to keep dew at bay for both of my scopes.

I have never really seen an issue with cool down time on the mak. I find that by the time I have leveled the scope connected everything aligned it got myself a drink checked the kids have not let a rake lying in the garden for me to step on in the dark then it was nearly ready to go.

[davyludo]

1 hour ago, spillage said:

I just use a cut off from an old camping mat to keep dew at bay for both of my scopes.

I have never really seen an issue with cool down time on the mak. I find that by the time I have leveled the scope connected everything aligned it got myself a drink checked the kids have not let a rake lying in the garden for me to step on in the dark then it was nearly ready to go.

I've got plenty of camping mats lying around...free dew shield! 

Thanks, that makes me feel a bit better. Starting to consider the Mak a bit more now, especially because it's so portable. Suppose I could always get my binoculars out and start scanning about while I'm waiting...if I'm desperate to start viewing.

I do love looking at the planets and by the sounds of things the mak definitely ticks those boxes. I'm not too fussed about the fuzzies just now (although I've seen M42 and M45 and I was gobsmacked) but I felt the Explorer 150p would give me the option to try it out if I wanted. From more reading though, I may still be able to catch some of the smaller ones in the mak....and the goto will probably make finding them a bit easier. 

Just need to finish getting the money together....then its time for a new toy! 

 

[John]

With the Explorers, the tube is portable enough, it's the equatorial mount and the counterweights that provides the portability challenge. OK if they are moved around in pieces though.

Mak-cassegrains and SCT's are portable due to their short tubed designs. You will need dew prevention gear with those and their cool down time is longer than refractors or newtonians.

Lots of choices !

[spillage]

1 minute ago, davyludo said:

Suppose I could always get my binoculars out and start scanning about while I'm waiting...if I'm desperate to start viewing.

 

 

If you have them then yes...This will help you get your bearings. If you have a smart phone tablet or laptop get and app or cdc/stellarium for laptop and start picking out stars planets and depending on your lp you should be able to see andromeda.

With a cheapish web cam you can get some decent planetary images and with a dslr some dso images. It will not win any awards but that is not the point.

[davyludo]

15 minutes ago, John said:

With the Explorers, the tube is portable enough, it's the equatorial mount and the counterweights that provides the portability challenge. OK if they are moved around in pieces though.

Mak-cassegrains and SCT's are portable due to their short tubed designs. You will need dew prevention gear with those and their cool down time is longer than refractors or newtonians.

Lots of choices !

Hi John. That's kind of why I was thinking about the AZ4 mount for the newt, thought it would be a lot more portable. Not really interested in an EQ...for now! 

There's just so much choice! Which is a good thing, because there's lots to learn and keep me busy.

I know I'm being indecisive just now, but I keep jumping between the 2. Every time I think I've made my mind up....I change it.

I get the feeling I'll end up with both at some point. I have a small newt just now, so might go for the mak goto first. Then once I've got some use out of that, look at upgrading my newt.

 

Cheers,

Davy

[davyludo]

16 minutes ago, spillage said:

 

If you have them then yes...This will help you get your bearings. If you have a smart phone tablet or laptop get and app or cdc/stellarium for laptop and start picking out stars planets and depending on your lp you should be able to see andromeda.

With a cheapish web cam you can get some decent planetary images and with a dslr some dso images. It will not win any awards but that is not the point.

I've actually already downloaded stellarium on laptop, phone and tablet! Don't know why I would need all 3, but it's just looks like such a useful tool.

I've seen some webcam planet stuff with the mak and to me they look amazing. If I could get something half as good as some of the ones I've seen, I'd be bouncing off the walls.

 

Cheers,

Davy

[Stormbringer]

1 hour ago, davyludo said:

I've actually already downloaded stellarium on laptop, phone and tablet! Don't know why I would need all 3, but it's just looks like such a useful tool.

I've seen some webcam planet stuff with the mak and to me they look amazing. If I could get something half as good as some of the ones I've seen, I'd be bouncing off the walls.

 

Cheers,

Davy

depends where you are 

if your out a walk and see something in night sky you can whip the phone out to check

tablet can be for when your lappy is inconvenient to use  and yes i have it on all 3 of my devices lol

[davyludo]

Change of plan....again! 

After a lot of research and pondering (I think my family are sick of hearing about telescopes) I've come up with a plan. 

I found an AZ4 mount going second hand for around £100 so I nabbed that. Been looking at this for a while and just decided that a goto isn't what I want for now.

I managed to get out last night for a couple of hours so decided to play with 2x Barlow and existing eyepieces to see what FOV would be like if I got a mak (currently have 700mm focal length, making would be 1500mm - I understand it's not exactly, but I was just looking for a feel). I found it really difficult to locate things (I can see why people use goto) so I've decided a mak isn't for me just now. 

Got some lovely views of Jupiter with current newt and actually really enjoyed just scanning about with the 25mm eyepiece. Managed to locate M44 (really beautiful). 

So now I've decided that my current newt will do for planet and lunar viewing in the city until I have space for a dob. The new mount should make a big difference as the current mount is a bit wobbly.

Ideally I now want something a bit more rugged that can get thrown in the car and go away camping with me. I think it would make more sense to have a wider fov to take advantage of the darker skies while being away from the central belt.

So I've decided to go for a startravel 102 (was gonna go for the ST80, but figured the bigger aperture was worth the extra weight). I know this won't give me very good views of the planets, but I can see the from the city and use my current scope for now. I think the st102 will be perfect for chucking in the car and taking up north for some beautiful wide field views.

I may still consider the 150p at a later date, but for now I'm going to stick with my little 76/700 newt for planets and the moon. Might just hold out for a year or 2 and get a dob.

I know this is totally different from the original advice that I asked for, but after some contemplation I think it's a pretty good balance for me just now. I want to thank you all for your advice...and patience with me being indecisive and changing my mind! 

Many thanks,

Davy