Triplet 4 in APO for visual - Overkill ??

[Telescope40]

Hello all.  Currently got a 4 in Achro and have been  poodling around the web reading up. Plus  seeing / following a few threads on here about 4 in Tak owners experiences and some of the mags being employed by the same, I'm beginning to think a nice 4 in triplet would be nice to have and passing on my Borg to a new owner. 

Just asking if the views from the triplet would blow my Borg out of the water - thinking YES - and also maybe give my Meade 127 a run for the money shot too ??

Would need to start saving.  Christmas 2017 Santa present at current rates. New house and SWIMBO to keep sweet.  LOL 

Any wisdom and musing gratefully received

JOHN 

[nightfisher]

Hi John, hows tricks?  i would say stick with your Meade 127 and save a pile of cash mate

p.s have you seen star camp thread for Usha gap Easter week

[John]

Many of the Taks being discussed are doublets actually. The superb FC series are 100mm fluorite doublets. It's the figuring that allows the high powers to be usefully used (although seeing conditions still need to be favourable too).

 

 

[Telescope40]

Hey guys. Should have said I'm into visual only. An APM 107 for sale, not that far from me, got the mind ticking over. 

Jules. I'm all good thanks. Trust the same. I'll check that thread as not seen it. Easter is a possibility. Hope the "120" is suiting you. 

I do love my 127. Not looking to rock its boat, so to speak, with a smaller triplet  !, 

John -  the mags you quoted with your Tak sound awesome. Was thinking a 107 triplet just might let me do the same, maybe, taking your caveat comments into account. 

 

John

[nightfisher]

To answer the original question, yes i think a Tak 100FC would be better for visual than the Borg, though i have not used either scope

I am loving the 120ED but its overkill for my needs, the 100ED would have done just as good a job

[Alfian]

9 minutes ago, nightfisher said:

I am loving the 120ED but its overkill for my needs, the 100ED would have done just as good a job

A bit of shame we don't live just a little bit closer Jules, we could pool resources. If we get anything like a settled clear spell, we'll have to sort something out!

John, it would indeed be good to see you at Usher Gap.

[Timebandit]

 

Hello. If you are seriously thinking of an upgrade and wondering if the extra cash is worth it then IMO see if you can "try before you buy" and to see if to your eyes the extra cash is really worth the benefit to your own particular eyes and budget. And a star party or maybe your local astronomy club usually have some great scopes for you to have a peek through, with the owners permission of course☺

But in general anyone who has a achro and then gets a nice apo does not seem to regret it. And a lot of the quality apo for visual people recommend are doublets and not necessarily triplets. Obviously you have the Rolls Royce of scopes like the Taks and their higher price tags. But the skywatcher range with the Ohara glass and the Scott glass in them in regards to lens like a sw 100ed or a 120ed, can produce great views at a fraction of the cost. So IMO if you have the scratch to itch with a apo for visual then i would look for a nice doublet either a Tak if you wish to push the boat out a bit or a cracking scope like the sw Ed if you want a quality frac but are more budget minded. I went for a equinox 120ed and found it a great scope, especially for planetary and lunar.

I hope the above helps☺ 

[rwilkey]

Hi John, yes, I would say that is overkill, the eye cannot detect what the camera can, I considered all but decided on a doublet which shows perfect views to my older eyes.  For the extra money you might spend it is not worth the little benefit (if indeed you can detect it!).  What I did find was that I felt the need to upgrade my ep's to match the better optics of the new scope - that's what made all the difference - consider your strategy rather than where your heart would like to take you.

[ronin]

It is likely a bit of overkill but I did much the same and never regretted it. Have a 90mm ED and bought an 80mm triplet.

My thinking was simple, I should never have to consider any CA at all no matter how small. And it is sharp, very sharp.

There is always the old saying: It is better to regret something you did, rather then something you didn't do.

Any particular 4" triplet ?

[Stu]

The Tak Fluorite doublets are pretty amazing scopes, and I would prefer one over many of the Chinese triplets. The figure on the lens is very good, and the view so sharp and contrasty.

With a good triplet, the colour correction will be better, but I actually think one of the main benefits is that they often have a slightly shorter focal length than their doublet equivalents, and that allows even wider field views, something I love. One thing to watch for is field curvature as scopes get faster but I would still fancy trying another good 4" triplet at some point.

[Highburymark]

My experience with the FC-100 fluorite doublet is that colour control is slightly better than the already excellent EDs. While there is normally a touch of false colour on bright objects and defocused stars with the EDs, the Tak is capable of colour-free views - but that also depends on the eyepiece. Of all the EPs I use, TV Delos lead the way, delivering impeccable, colour free views, while some other EPs do introduce tinges of yellow and violet. 

[Telescope40]

Sage replies as always.  After reading all your words I think I'm back to the dimishing returns syndrome that kit upgrades always seem to end up at. The eyes are getting somewhat, older. 

Could easily spend the greenbacks on alternatives like a nice tripod  (Berlebach - drool ) and a couple of excellent EP,s to complete my current set /  complement my current gear. Probably much more of a result in the long run.  

 

John 

[John]

5 minutes ago, Telescope40 said:

Sage replies as always.  After reading all your words I think I'm back to the dimishing returns syndrome that kit upgrades always seem to end up at. The eyes are getting somewhat, older. 

Could easily spend the greenbacks on alternatives like a nice tripod  (Berlebach - drool ) and a couple of excellent EP,s to complete my current set /  complement my current gear. Probably much more of a result in the long run.  

 

John 

The point I was making in my post was that it does not need to be a triplet for quality visual. I was not trying to put you off being interested in getting a fine refractor. My eyes are 57 this month but I'm certainly appreciating the views that my premium fracs put up

 

[Telescope40]

John. No putting off done just very wise words as always from all the posts. 

I am pretty settled with my OTA's to be honest.  The AD  I saw just hit a nerve and it needed to be scratched. 

A Uni 28 is currently back on itch list.  Time will tell. Can see your new arrival has completed an excellent set up for you. 

Regards  John 

 

[mikeDnight]

The SkyWatcher ED Pro doublets are excellent and offer a view that's very close to true fluorite. Many visual only observers prefer the doublet ED over the triplet because they can often be used at a moment's notice without waiting long to cool. A doublet ed apo would undoubtebly be a better scope optically than your 4" achromat, but the SW 4" is relatively long if you're looking for a short tube scope.

After looking at the Tak posts you've decided to go for a triplet! Is this because youre looking at the TSA102? You may be able to pick up a second hand TSA triplet if its Takahashi you want. The FC100D fluorites are Steinheil doublets. 

Mike 

[Telescope40]

Mike.  The triplet option was the reason my post. The scope was an APM that I had seen. My knowledge is somewhat limited and after the Tak threads I was after some wisdom. 

I'm back in my box, for now. Lol 

Best regards. John 

[Moonshane]

I had a bad experience with a cheaper triplet which never really performed.. I discovered it was out of collimation,  tried to adjust and ruined it. Eventually sold cheap as a posh, well built 80mm wide field.

As a result I'll never buy a triplet again. Other than for ha I was not happy really people with any frac until I got an ed doublet but now have two and really rate them. Eventually I might get and Tak 100mm f7 to upgrade my smaller ed. That will definitely be a doublet.

 

[nightfisher]

18 minutes ago, Moonshane said:

I had a bad experience with a cheaper triplet which never really performed.. I discovered it was out of collimation,  tried to adjust and ruined it. Eventually sold cheap as a posh, well built 80mm wide field.

As a result I'll never buy a triplet again. Other than for ha I was not happy really people with any frac until I got an ed doublet but now have two and really rate them. Eventually I might get and Tak 100mm f7 to upgrade my smaller ed. That will definitely be a doublet.

 

Yes Shane, i can see you going down the 100FC road at some stage, maybe sell some of the big newts and fund one

[Moonshane]

More likely to sell the 102 f7

[Telescope40]

Guess I'm of the same thoughts now, Shane. A Tak for me too please but no idea when 

John 

[nightfisher]

19 minutes ago, Moonshane said:

More likely to sell the 102 f7

so how much is a 100FC likely to cost?

[John]

20 minutes ago, nightfisher said:

so how much is a 100FC likely to cost?

They start at a little below £2K.

[nightfisher]

5 minutes ago, John said:

They start at a little below £2K.

Im guessing one could source a used good one for about £1400.......thats a grand dearer than a used good 100ED but is the Tak a grand better than the 100ED..........maybe not but i could never answer that question as i wont ever have the Tak, short of winning the lotto 

And just for the record i am in no way knocking the Tak

[Moonshane]

Hence the eventually

[John]

Don't see many on the used market but you never know !

The law of diminishing returns applies to Taks and ED100's like everything else. And everybody makes their own decision on where they can be on that curve. I can only own these expensive scopes because I inherited some money. Otherwise I'd be very happy to own and use Skywatcher ED doublets