Accessories for 200P Dob

[Scott Brown]

Hi guys.....

I have read on here to take time getting used to the stock eye pieces that come with the scope until you get used to what you are using. I have the 10mm and the 25 mm stock ones but I was wondering if there are any safe choices to buy just now? I was planning on getting a x2 Barlow and leaving it at that for a while. Also is there any " must have " filters for a beginner eg a moon filter. I don't want to jump the gun too early but was just wondering the standard " extras " that would be handy for a beginner and would still get used in the future. Also is FLO the best place to get them as I have read in the forums that " get what you pay for " and I don't want to just buy the cheapest stuff from eBay.

thanks in advance..... Scott

[Knighty2112]

9 minutes ago, Scott Brown said:

Hi guys.....

I have read on here to take time getting used to the stock eye pieces that come with the scope until you get used to what you are using. I have the 10mm and the 25 mm stock ones but I was wondering if there are any safe choices to buy just now? I was planning on getting a x2 Barlow and leaving it at that for a while. Also is there any " must have " filters for a beginner eg a moon filter. I don't want to jump the gun too early but was just wondering the standard " extras " that would be handy for a beginner and would still get used in the future. Also is FLO the best place to get them as I have read in the forums that " get what you pay for " and I don't want to just buy the cheapest stuff from eBay.

thanks in advance..... Scott

To be honest I would just get used to the scope and learn the sky first with what you have for a while before you splash out on any extras. You've got the rest of your life to empty your bank account in this hobby with all the 'extras' and 'accessories' we buy for our scopes! Have fun with it first and enjoy the views!  

[laudropb]

Hi Scott. I understand your enthusiasm to purchase accessories. I was the same myself. But it is sound advice to wait a month or so to get better acquainted with your new scope before upgrading eyepieces. The 25mm supplied is more than adequate, the 10 mm less so, but still usable.

As to filters, I have a Moon filter but seldom use it. I found it is only necessary at near full Moon, but I tend to use higher magnifications which darken the image. I do use UHC and Olll filters for nebulae, but again there is plenty of time to get these.

The first upgrade I did was to change the finder scope. The straight through finder supplied can get into some horrible positions and is literally a pain in the neck. I got a Rigel red dot finder and a RACI finder and use them in combination as many do on this site. Did you not get a Barlow with the scope?

I would stay clear of EBay cheapies. Stick to reliable suppliers like FLO, at least until you gain more experience. 

Hope you get some clear skies to play with your new scope,

All the best

John.

[alanjgreen]

Hi Scott,

As above, hold fire on the eyepieces for now. Use the scope, learn its weaknesses as you see them, then buy to resolve the weaknesses.

the only thing I would suggest you consider now is "turn left at Orion" ( a book ).

It will help you locate objects cos if you can't find anything you will soon lose interest. it has 200+ pages of objects, organised by season. It shows sketches of what you can expect to see in eyepiece of a small scope. And most importantly has star hopping instructions so you can find them!

Search on this site for the book title to find plenty of references. If you buy it on amazon, you can get free postage. It's also available on the high street.

Alan

[Scott Brown]

23 minutes ago, Knighty2112 said:

To be honest I would just get used to the scope and learn the sky first with what you have for a while before you splash out on any extras. You've got the rest of your life to empty your bank account in this hobby with all the 'extras' and 'accessories' we buy for our scopes! Have fun with it first and enjoy the views!  

Hi Gus.... Yeh I suppose I'm just getting overly keen too quickly. Thanks

[Scott Brown]

26 minutes ago, laudropb said:

Hi Scott. I understand your enthusiasm to purchase accessories. I was the same myself. But it is sound advice to wait a month or so to get better acquainted with your new scope before upgrading eyepieces. The 25mm supplied is more than adequate, the 10 mm less so, but still usable.

As to filters, I have a Moon filter but seldom use it. I found it is only necessary at near full Moon, but I tend to use higher magnifications which darken the image. I do use UHC and Olll filters for nebulae, but again there is plenty of time to get these.

The first upgrade I did was to change the finder scope. The straight through finder supplied can get into some horrible positions and is literally a pain in the neck. I got a Rigel red dot finder and a RACI finder and use them in combination as many do on this site. Did you not get a Barlow with the scope?

I would stay clear of EBay cheapies. Stick to reliable suppliers like FLO, at least until you gain more experience. 

Hope you get some clear skies to play with your new scope,

All the best

John.

Hi John.

I got a Rigel Quik Finder with the scope so I'm all good there. The question with the moon filter was because I wasn't sure if you could view the moon in great detail without one but you have answered that. No I didn't get a Barlw supplied so would you advise getting one as it will always be used anyway or would I just wait a few months as well? Thanks

[Scott Brown]

16 minutes ago, alanjgreen said:

Hi Scott,

As above, hold fire on the eyepieces for now. Use the scope, learn its weaknesses as you see them, then buy to resolve the weaknesses.

the only thing I would suggest you consider now is "turn left at Orion" ( a book ).

It will help you locate objects cos if you can't find anything you will soon lose interest. it has 200+ pages of objects, organised by season. It shows sketches of what you can expect to see in eyepiece of a small scope. And most importantly has star hopping instructions so you can find them!

Search on this site for the book title to find plenty of references. If you buy it on amazon, you can get free postage. It's also available on the high street.

Alan

Thanks Alan.... Yeh I have seen good reviews of that book on here so yes..... That will be my next purchase. Thanks again...... Scott

[furrysocks2]

To give you a ball park for EPs, not suggesting you dive in yet...

Your might consider a 35mm 2" eyepiece, perhaps a 40mm - search for your scope and a given EP on here and you should find review of the two together. Something like an Aero 35mm 68degree that I have should give you a view of 2 degrees of the night sky at 35x magnification (2.26 degrees at 30x for the 40mm) - your 25mm just now probably gives you 1.1 degrees or so at 48x. That's a ballpark for how "wide" you can go. I have a dob that's half an inch larger diameter and a foot and a half longer, and I'm delighted I bought one 2" low mag, wide angle EP. You might consider something like that - rule of thumb is that most folk look after their gear and second hand prices are very roughly 2/3 of new, depending on condition. Many others available, I only have experience of one.

At the other end of the scale, there are rules of thumb like 50x per inch of aperture, or perhaps 30x per inch but it much depends on the atmosphere and the UK doesn't have the best sky. A 5 or 6mm EP would give you 200-240x magnification and an exit pupil of 1mm or less, which can begin to cause eye strain and you start to see floaters on your eye. With a steady sky, something down this end of the scale could be good for planets or splitting binary stars, but the planets are not particularly well positioned for a while (broadly speaking, Mars late 2020, Jupiter from late 2022, Saturn from 2025 improving). You could barlow your 10mm but I'd be tempted to go down the replacement EP route, personally. Again, not suggesting you do that now, just hoping this gives you context.

Without a doubt you can improve on the stock EPs, but that needn't be more than £30-60 odd - the focal ratio of your scope is f/6 which is kinder to eyepieces than f/5 or f/4, for example.

Hope that helps, stuff to bear in mind if you are considering something else. I've no experience of the stock EPs you have, but it is often cited that a replacement for a stock EP can transform the views you get...  

Another piece of oft-given advice is take your scope along to a star party or club session and try a few other folk's EPs. There's a long weekend meet down at a campsite near Wigtown next weekend...

Also, a pair of binos can help locate stuff or to scan around while the scope's cooling down. 8x42, 10x50, something like that perhaps.

[Dave In Vermont]

If your new scope doesn't have a RACI Finder-Scope, I'd put that on your shopping-list. If not - get a good Yogi and learn to be a full-on contortionist.

 

RACI Example.

As for me, I'd use an optical-finder like the one I put above. And, perhaps, a Red-Dot type, too. The 8 X 50mm above will help to find dimmer objects way out yonder!

I'll let other voices help with your EP (eyepiece) possibilities.

Have fun with that great telescope -

Dave

[alanjgreen]

43 minutes ago, Scott Brown said:

No I didn't get a Barlw supplied so would you advise getting one as it will always be used anyway or would I just wait a few months as well? Thanks

No, I wouldn't get a Barlow now.

if you Barlow the 25 then it will become a 12.5 (assuming you buy a x2barlow), you already have a 10mm so a 12.5 isn't going to make much difference to the view.

if you Barlow the 10mm down to a 5mm then that will be too much useful magnification.

so wait and do nothing now...

what you will eventually need is a nice spread of EPs across a useful range of magnification for most nights atmospheric conditions.

useful magnification range in U.K. is x50 to x250

if you plan steps of x50 (smaller steps will not be noticeable at the eyepiece and therefore not a good purchase)

your scope is 1200mm focal length?

if you divide the scope focal length by the required/desired magnification then the answer is the size eyepiece that you would need to buy  

so assuming 1200 is the focal length, then...

x50 is 24mm

x100 is 12mm

x150 is 8mm

x200 is 6mm

x250 is 4.5

magnification of x100 and x150 is great for DSO, galaxies

magnification of x150 to x250 for planets, globular clusters

magnification of x50 and x100 for large nebulas and star clusters

 

As you can see from the eyepiece sizes, 24, 12, 8 , 6, 4. A lot of these numbers are doubles of other numbers, therefore a 2x Barlow could be purchased and used to reduce the number of eyepieces that you need to buy initially. BUT IT MUST BE A QUALITY BARLOW. A cheap one will only spoil all your eyepieces!

But see how you get on with what you have for a few nights first!

HTH,

Alan

[Scott Brown]

43 minutes ago, furrysocks2 said:

To give you a ball park for EPs, not suggesting you dive in yet...

Your might consider a 35mm 2" eyepiece, perhaps a 40mm - search for your scope and a given EP on here and you should find review of the two together. Something like an Aero 35mm 68degree that I have should give you a view of 2 degrees of the night sky at 35x magnification (2.26 degrees at 30x for the 40mm) - your 25mm just now probably gives you 1.1 degrees or so at 48x. That's a ballpark for how "wide" you can go. I have a dob that's half an inch larger diameter and a foot and a half longer, and I'm delighted I bought one 2" low mag, wide angle EP. You might consider something like that - rule of thumb is that most folk look after their gear and second hand prices are very roughly 2/3 of new, depending on condition. Many others available, I only have experience of one.

At the other end of the scale, there are rules of thumb like 50x per inch of aperture, or perhaps 30x per inch but it much depends on the atmosphere and the UK doesn't have the best sky. A 5 or 6mm EP would give you 200-240x magnification and an exit pupil of 1mm or less, which can begin to cause eye strain and you start to see floaters on your eye. With a steady sky, something down this end of the scale could be good for planets or splitting binary stars, but the planets are not particularly well positioned for a while (broadly speaking, Mars late 2020, Jupiter from late 2022, Saturn from 2025 improving). You could barlow your 10mm but I'd be tempted to go down the replacement EP route, personally. Again, not suggesting you do that now, just hoping this gives you context.

Without a doubt you can improve on the stock EPs, but that needn't be more than £30-60 odd - the focal ratio of your scope is f/6 which is kinder to eyepieces than f/5 or f/4, for example.

Hope that helps, stuff to bear in mind if you are considering something else. I've no experience of the stock EPs you have, but it is often cited that a replacement for a stock EP can transform the views you get...  

Another piece of oft-given advice is take your scope along to a star party or club session and try a few other folk's EPs. There's a long weekend meet down at a campsite near Wigtown next weekend...

Also, a pair of binos can help locate stuff or to scan around while the scope's cooling down. 8x42, 10x50, something like that perhaps.

Thanks for taking the time to write this. Defo gives me food for thought. Instead of jumping in I will enjoy what I have and take my time to learn and choose wisely. Thanks again..... Scott

[Scott Brown]

19 minutes ago, Dave In Vermont said:

If your new scope doesn't have a RACI Finder-Scope, I'd put that on your shopping-list. If not - get a good Yogi and learn to be a full-on contortionist.

 

RACI Example.

As for me, I'd use an optical-finder like the one I put above. And, perhaps, a Red-Dot type, too. The 8 X 50mm above will help to find dimmer objects way out yonder!

I'll let other voices help with your EP (eyepiece) possibilities.

Have fun with that great telescope -

Dave

Thanks Dave, no I don't have one like that just the original one that comes as standard but I will try my Rigel at some point and see how I like that. Thanks

[rockystar]

49 minutes ago, Scott Brown said:

Thanks Alan.... Yeh I have seen good reviews of that book on here so yes..... That will be my next purchase. Thanks again...... Scott

and a red light to read it by in the dark without ruining your night vision

 

[alanjgreen]

2 minutes ago, rockystar said:

and a red light to read it by in the dark without ruining your night vision

 

You can paint a few coats of red nail varnish on a small white light torch to turn it into a red light torch. At least 2 coats will be needed.  

[Scott Brown]

13 minutes ago, alanjgreen said:

I wouldn't get a Barlow now.

if you Barlow the 25 then it will become a 12.5 (assuming you buy a x2barlow), you already have a 10mm so a 12.5 isn't going to make much difference to the view.

if you Barlow the 10mm down to a 5mm then that will be too much useful magnification.

so wait...

what you will eventually need is a nice spread of EPs across a useful range of magnification.

useful range in U.K. is x50 to x250

if you plan steps of x50 (smaller steps will not be noticeable at the eyepiece and therefore not a good purchase)

your scope is 1200mm focal length?

if you divide the scope focal length by the required/desired magnification then the answer is the size eyepiece that you would need to buy.

so assuming 1200 is the focal length, then...

x50 is 24mm

x100 is 12mm

x150 is 8mm

x200 is 6mm

x250 is 4.5

magnification of x100 and x150 is great for DSO, galaxies

magnification of x150 to x250 for planets, globular clusters

magnification of x50 and x100 for large nebulas and star clusters

 

But see how you get on with what you have for a few nights first!

HTH,

Alan

Brilliant Alan thank, this explains a lot and now I at least know the basics of EP's. I wasn't thinking of it that way, I was rushing in thinking the more magnification the better but I now understand it's not all about that. BTW it is a1200 so working it out my 25 mm gives me x48 and my 10 mm gives me x120 yeh. Would I be able to see any detail on Jupiter with these eyepieces eg bands and different colours? I take it my 10 mm is best for moon and Jupiter then and my 25 mm is better for looking at clusters etc..... Thanks in advance

[Scott Brown]

8 minutes ago, rockystar said:

and a red light to read it by in the dark without ruining your night vision

 

Yeh I found that out last night, I used my torch and couldn't adjust my eyes for ages

[Scott Brown]

6 minutes ago, alanjgreen said:

You can paint a few coats of red nail varnish on a small white light torch to turn it into a red light torch. At least 2 coats will be needed.  

Ok so now I need to pinch her torch and nail varnish lol...... She is gonna be chuffed

[alanjgreen]

38 minutes ago, Scott Brown said:

BTW it is a1200 so working it out my 25 mm gives me x48 and my 10 mm gives me x120 yeh. Would I be able to see any detail on Jupiter with these eyepieces eg bands and different colours? I take it my 10 mm is best for moon and Jupiter then and my 25 mm is better for looking at clusters etc..... Thanks in advance

Yep, those magnifications are correct. It's all logical once you know what to divide by what! I never know why manufacturers don't put a simple fact sheet in with the scopes, it seems they want us to needlessly buy stuff we don't actually need  

x120 on jupiter will show the planet details you desire. Bands, colours will be visible.

i usually find that above x175 can be too much for jupiter. But seeing is different every night. Certainly lower power EPs will see more use than higher power EPs. The only exception is if you get into double star splitting, then high power is useful.

try the x48 on jupiter too. You should still see the banding but it will be quite small.

try to time your attempts with the Great Red Spot transits, then you can watch that too! Here's a webpage for finding the transit times

http://www.acquerra.com.au/astro/software/jupiter.html

the time shown is the time when the grs will be in the centre, its visible an hour either side of that time. It takes it 2 hours to go from one side to the other.

Also be aware that jupiter is low in the sky, earths atmosphere is thicker down there and spoils the view. It can force you to drop to a lower magnification eyepiece to get a decent view.

 

[furrysocks2]

58 minutes ago, Scott Brown said:

Thanks for taking the time to write this. Defo gives me food for thought. Instead of jumping in I will enjoy what I have and take my time to learn and choose wisely. Thanks again..... Scott

That's what coffee breaks are for.

[Scott Brown]

8 minutes ago, alanjgreen said:

Yep, those magnifications are correct. It's all logical once you know what to divide by what! I never know why manufacturers don't put a simple fact sheet in with the scopes, it seems they want us to needlessly buy stuff we don't actually need  

x120 on jupiter will show the planet details you desire. Bands, colours will be visible.

i usually find that above x175 can be too much for jupiter. But seeing is different every night. Certainly lower power EPs will see more use than higher power EPs. The only exception is if you get into double star splitting, then high power is useful.

try the x48 on jupiter too. You should still see the banding but it will be quite small.

try to time your attempts with the Great Red Spot transits, then you can watch that too! Here's a webpage for finding the transit times

http://www.acquerra.com.au/astro/software/jupiter.html

the time shown is the time when the grs will be in the centre, its visible an hour either side of that time. It takes it 2 hours to go from one side to the other.

Also be aware that jupiter is low in the sky, earths atmosphere is thicker down there and spoils the view. It can force you to drop to a lower magnification eyepiece to get a decent view.

 

Great thanks..... See I've learned something already.

[Jimtheslim]

Don't bother with a moon filter, it is best viewed when it is not full as detail and contrast is brought out along the terminator. I have the 250p and have never felt like it was needed.

I was also itching to buy a RACI as I found the whole magnified, back to front and upside down view too disorientating to use when locating feint objects. However since buying a Telrad, I've never needed a finderscope of any description.

Eyepieces: take your time, you will inevitably want to dive in at some point and some sound advice above. The Explore Scientific 82 degree range get great reviews and I love mine. For high mag I use orthos, a very cost effective way of getting the best views possible if you don't mind the tight eye relief and field of view.

[Scott Brown]

3 minutes ago, Jimtheslim said:

Don't bother with a moon filter, it is best viewed when it is not full as detail and contrast is brought out along the terminator. I have the 250p and have never felt like it was needed.

I was also itching to buy a RACI as I found the whole magnified, back to front and upside down view too disorientating to use when locating feint objects. However since buying a Telrad, I've never needed a finderscope of any description.

Eyepieces: take your time, you will inevitably want to dive in at some point and some sound advice above. The Explore Scientific 82 degree range get great reviews and I love mine. For high mag I use orthos, a very cost effective way of getting the best views possible if you don't mind the tight eye relief and field of view.

Thanks Jim..... Yeh I have slowed down a bit and will take my time learning the trade first before I jump in. 

[ronin]

Find out what drives you mad first. There will be one and I guess it will be either the finder or the eyepieces.

If you must have better views - afterall that is the gneral idea of this - then look at the BST Starguiders from Skies the Limit, StL. I would suggest the 8mm, 12mm and the 25mm over whatever length of purchase time you decide. I went for one a month, but ended up at two a month. Halved the time.

I do not use arlows, just find I prefer seperate eyepieces. At the shorter end then not sure the 5mm BST will be used a lot, the re is a WO 6mm planetary but I think there is a clone of it sold as the Altair Lightwave 6mm. If you look at Altair or Tring or Rother Valley there may be two 6mm Lightwave eyepieces. One is £55 the other is about £155, I have the £55 one and it is good. Not sure why two carrying the same name, or almost the same name.

If you wear glasses then say so as that can make a difference, short plossl's have shorter eye relief.

Finders all depend on what you like or get on with. I like the RDF type, I cannot use the Telrad's at all, and a friend just puts his head on the tube of his dobsonian and uses a straight through - they find it much easier. So in that area you are somewhat on your own. Apologies but that is also in general what people find = one type works for them. At one place I just sight along the scope tube (telrad fitted) and aim at the bit of sky with no finder, another person holds a small GLP along the OTA and uses that to "aim" the scope. An RDF is going to be of limited use (almost none) on a dobsonian owing to how you view through it.

Moon filter may be useful, it gets bright especially when full. Again StL sell them as does just about every one else.

 

[Scott Brown]

10 minutes ago, ronin said:

Find out what drives you mad first. There will be one and I guess it will be either the finder or the eyepieces.

If you must have better views - afterall that is the gneral idea of this - then look at the BST Starguiders from Skies the Limit, StL. I would suggest the 8mm, 12mm and the 25mm over whatever length of purchase time you decide. I went for one a month, but ended up at two a month. Halved the time.

I do not use arlows, just find I prefer seperate eyepieces. At the shorter end then not sure the 5mm BST will be used a lot, the re is a WO 6mm planetary but I think there is a clone of it sold as the Altair Lightwave 6mm. If you look at Altair or Tring or Rother Valley there may be two 6mm Lightwave eyepieces. One is £55 the other is about £155, I have the £55 one and it is good. Not sure why two carrying the same name, or almost the same name.

If you wear glasses then say so as that can make a difference, short plossl's have shorter eye relief.

Finders all depend on what you like or get on with. I like the RDF type, I cannot use the Telrad's at all, and a friend just puts his head on the tube of his dobsonian and uses a straight through - they find it much easier. So in that area you are somewhat on your own. Apologies but that is also in general what people find = one type works for them. At one place I just sight along the scope tube (telrad fitted) and aim at the bit of sky with no finder, another person holds a small GLP along the OTA and uses that to "aim" the scope. An RDF is going to be of limited use (almost none) on a dobsonian owing to how you view through it.

Moon filter may be useful, it gets bright especially when full. Again StL sell them as does just about every one else.

 

Cheers Ronin. Good advice there. I will get more viewing time under my belt and take it from there. I can see a fortune being spent in the long run though but for now I'll just look forward to finding my way about the skies. Thanks

[Scott Brown]

On 17 February 2017 at 14:30, ronin said:

 

If you wear glasses then say so as that can make a difference, short plossl's have shorter 

 

Yes Ronin I wear glasses for reading. What should I be looking out for?