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Is it worth £600 to add GOTO...


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Hi folks! I've had my 150pds for a couple of years now to do both imaging and observing. I've decided to upgrade and get a triplet frac for imaging and a 12" dob for observing. I like the look of the flextube 300p at £800 but I'd love the GOTO version, but its £1400, is it really worth the extra. Will DSO's drift out of view fairly quickly without the GOTO? thanks

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They will not drift out of view as when viewing you should be holding and gently nudging the dob to keep the object in view. When you stop being in contact with the scope then things will wander off (understandably).

If you have not used one then expect a while to get the knack of it all.

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Hi Gino, I got my goto dob recently (see signature) - it was my first telescope.  Years ago I had looked through someone else's and they had a 'need to be nudged' system, I really wanted something that didn't need to be nudged so I splurged the extra and had the goto for mine.  What you need to know (and in comparison with the one I had a go with years back) is that its not like an imaging tracking system - it will maintain the objects in view for a decent amount of time, but in the finish the field rotation will get the better of it.  That said at low magnification I can keep it on a single star and it will still be in the same viewfinder image and hour later, so it's much better than without.  The other advantage of my Skywatcher system is that you can hand move it yourself and it just knows what you've done and will pickup from where you leave it, so you can hand-fiddle with it if you feel the need to. 

FWIW - I've little experience without it, but I like it and think I would have had endured rapid frustration with a hand-nudge system.  It also means I can go and get the kids to see something, and it's still in the view-finder by the time they've put on their coats!

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No GOTO or drives on my 12" dob. I can track a target relatively easily at 250x-300x. I don't try and keep the target centered in one place, I use the method of pusing the target to one side of the field of view and then let it drift across while I observe it, then move it across, then let it drift again. I find this works well although it's helped by my eyepieces which are both wide angle and well corrected so I have the full field to play with.

 

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I spent a year with an equatorial mount and although it was great fun I was never certain I was looking at the object i was trying to find. Then upgraded to a goto and my viewing changed dramatically. Now I know I am looking at M78. A night's viewing is now looking at objects rather than trying to find one or two.

Is it worth the money? Well  only you can decide. It changed my viewing for the better.

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How about a 250px goto at £950

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-250px-flextube-goto.html

does that take the argument away?

The 300px is a big scope and the electonics, motors will need to match so the difference is greater.

How portable do you need it to be?

Personally, I love goto. Finding things is a doddle, tracking lets you just sit and observe. I would not go back to the fully manual approach again now I've been spoiled.

Is it the "goto" or the "tracking" or both?

you could buy manual and convert to "push to" by adding encoders and a nexus (astrosystems) - is the middle ground option.

 

Alan

 

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Thanks for the replies everyone! It's really made me think. JOC, that sounds really cool, how you can move the scope and it'll still know what you're pointing at. Alan, I don't know why but I really do want it to be a 12", I know this scope will last me years and years and so I don't wanna buy a 10" then catch the aperture fever and upgrade to 12" or more.

I've also heard there's no point really in upgrading from 12" to 14", so I think 12" sounds the best for me. How does the alignment process work with dob goto mounts? Is it roughly the same as aligning a GEM? and also wouldn't the ground have to be perfectly level? because there's obviously no legs you can adjust.

 

 

 

 

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I stand mine on a bit of roughly flat ground and it seems fine.  I use two star alignment.  You set the goto with the time and date info from the synscan init 2 app. Then pick a famous star you know (Robbie Williams doesn't work though).  This should be in its database, for example I pick Betelguese.  You manually align the scope to this star and tell the goto you are there.  You then pick another star like Polaris from the database.  Based on the first selection the scope moves itself to where it thinks Polaris is.  You centre it finally in the eyepiece and tell it OK.  Job done.  Some of the gotos also have a GPS connector which is supposed to make things even easier.  I think then any 3 random stars will do.

NB.  when I said you can move it, you can, but it will only know 'where' it is physically i.e  what coordinates it now sits at.  Not 'what' it is pointing at.  Again the what' question might be solved with a gps system.  Some homework on the gps might be useful?  I don't have GPS so can't help with that.

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The GPS is useful to automatically input your location ( latitude and longitude ) and the time, saves you inputting it by hand and making a booboo :)

I guess that the GPS is also required to put those values in to the StarSense autoalign gizmo which combines that info with what it can see of which stars are currently  where the sky.

The mount does not need to be level (given a full star align), the GPS and the orientation of the stars ( given by your manual star alignment or by the StarSense) enables the software to work out the local coordinate system ie. your horizontal plane and horizon.

hth

 

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On 25/01/2017 at 23:47, JOC said:

I stand mine on a bit of roughly flat ground and it seems fine.  I use two star alignment.  You set the goto with the time and date info from the synscan init 2 app. Then pick a famous star you know (Robbie Williams doesn't work though).  This should be in its database, for example I pick Betelguese.  You manually align the scope to this star and tell the goto you are there.  You then pick another star like Polaris from the database.  Based on the first selection the scope moves itself to where it thinks Polaris is.  You centre it finally in the eyepiece and tell it OK.  Job done.  Some of the gotos also have a GPS connector which is supposed to make things even easier.  I think then any 3 random stars will do.

NB.  when I said you can move it, you can, but it will only know 'where' it is physically i.e  what coordinates it now sits at.  Not 'what' it is pointing at.  Again the what' question might be solved with a gps system.  Some homework on the gps might be useful?  I don't have GPS so can't help with that.

 

lol fair play with the "star" joke that made me laugh. It sounds similar to my heq5 pro to align.

You say that it won't know what it's pointing at if you move the scope but I heard on a youtube video that they actually do have this feature?

On 26/01/2017 at 00:09, SilverAstro said:

The GPS is useful to automatically input your location ( latitude and longitude ) and the time, saves you inputting it by hand and making a booboo :)

I guess that the GPS is also required to put those values in to the StarSense autoalign gizmo which combines that info with what it can see of which stars are currently  where the sky.

The mount does not need to be level (given a full star align), the GPS and the orientation of the stars ( given by your manual star alignment or by the StarSense) enables the software to work out the local coordinate system ie. your horizontal plane and horizon.

hth

 

 

Thanks for that, at least I know it won't matter where I set-up the scope.

 

At the moment I'm swaying to get GOTO because I'll be keeping this scope for years and I want it to be as good as it can be. I think after February's paycheck I'll order one, I'll let you all know what decision I make! 

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I don't like goto for visual astronomy.  It gets boring.  Half the fun is *finding* the object you're after and you learn so much in doing so.  But that's just my opinion.  I ripped the goto off of my 300 and turned it into a manual.  The backlash on the SW 300P was dreadful, certainly on the example I had.

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Having started in the middle of winter I think Goto has its place, esp. for a newbie.  Once up and running you are spending most of your time looking, rather than freezing off certain parts of your anatomy trying to find something that you may not even be in the right bit of the sky for.

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I sold my 300P Flextube GOTO to fund solar kit.  For me, and this topic is a personal preference, I preferred GOTO but the reason I did was because the Dob sat on the grass whilst my triplet refractor was collecting images in the obsy.  I could go between the two in full knowledge that my target of visual interest was easy to catch in the Dob.  The 12" SW Flextube is the smallest Dob that has a full needle roller bearing in the base.  This made it very smooth and the accuracy of the GOTO was excellent but it has to be very level.  Regarding encoders, mine had them as part of the GOTO so if you accidentally nudge the tube or the cat climbs in the scope (like mine did) then the software keeps track of where the scope is pointing.  No need to re-align.  The best upgrade you can do in my opinion is fit a motor focuser.

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My eyes and my atlas's are my goto, that way I get to learn, make mistakes, re-evaluate and gain a sense of fulfilment when a target has been successfully navigated - whether you are a 'newbie' or a seasoned observer. If you want tracking, consider a 9 volt battery propelled equatorial tracking platform, personally I prefer the natural rhythm and movement of things and the subtle ease of nudging.

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That looks like a huge 2" job.  I've decided that there lies an expensive patha and am restraining myself to a 1.25" collection.  I hope your views are at least as good as mine have been so far.

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On 02/02/2017 at 18:49, JOC said:

That looks like a huge 2" job.  I've decided that there lies an expensive patha and am restraining myself to a 1.25" collection.  I hope your views are at least as good as mine have been so far.

 
 

Yep, cost me £190, weighs a ton...great quality eyepiece though, I have a coma corrector too so views should be close to perfect! I don't really know the difference between 1.25 and 2" but I thought I want at least one good quality 2".

On 02/02/2017 at 19:04, ollypenrice said:

At least, for visual astronomers, the Go To on a big Dob will go to things the scope can show. At small apertures the mount will go to thousands of objects which can never been seen in the aperture available.

Olly

 
 

Yeah very true, unless you're imaging of course. There was a very quick break in the clouds tonight so I quickly took it outside without the goto and had a quick look at M42, even in my terrible LP garden with un-adapted eyes I could see quite a lot of nebula. I then found M67 and it was tiny but amazing to look at, I highly doubt I'd be able to see it though my 150pds. I just can't wait to take it to Brecon, although it looks like it'll be some time before I do because of the weather...

On 02/02/2017 at 19:15, triton1 said:

Congrats on the new scope I started of with a manual mount which did have the option to track which was important for me but now having full goto makes life so much easier.

 
 

Cheers John! After I ordered it I was thinking to myself, "should I have gone for the 16 inch?" but after taking it outside tonight for 15 min I'm glad I stuck with the 12 inch, she's a beast lol

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