Newcomer Advice Wanted

[Markh68]

Hi,

I have just joined this forum and initially looking for advice on telescope choice.

I already own a pair of binoculars and I am starting to learn where constellations are, name of stars, planets etc.

I have got several books on astronomy and I am a subscriber to Sky At Night Magazine. Also I have been using the Internet to gain knowledge but decided now it was best to help with learning and join a forum (so I joined SGL).

I feel like a telescope might be the next step.

I mainly want it to start with moon and planetary observing but do want to then go on on deep sky objects.

Budget to start with of £700.

I will want to take some photos at some point but I am aware by reading books that it can get expensive.

I live in an area that had moderate light pollution and will have to find somewhere locally that has dark skies away from the street lights.

Also I have not got an idea of where my nearest Astronomy club is?

 

[bottletopburly]

 clubs here https://stargazerslounge.com/forum/156-west-midlands/ 

13 minutes ago, Markh68 said:

Hi,

I have just joined this forum and initially looking for advice on telescope choice.

I already own a pair of binoculars and I am starting to learn where constellations are, name of stars, planets etc.

I have got several books on astronomy and I am a subscriber to Sky At Night Magazine. Also I have been using the Internet to gain knowledge but decided now it was best to help with learning and join a forum (so I joined SGL).

I feel like a telescope might be the next step.

I mainly want it to start with moon and planetary observing but do want to then go on on deep sky objects.

Budget to start with of £700.

I will want to take some photos at some point but I am aware by reading books that it can get expensive.

I live in an area that had moderate light pollution and will have to find somewhere locally that has dark skies away from the street lights.

Also I have not got an idea of where my nearest Astronomy club is?

 

Expensive nooooo, just depends how deep your pockets are  

[alanjgreen]

Hi Mark,

There is no simple answer as you probably know.

For photography, I would lean towards a reflector (good for visual too)

For visual planetary & smaller footprint then I would lean to SCT or MAK. Less good for photography though. They have long focal length meaning they can get good magnification on moon & planets.

For photography, you need a good solid mount, so avoid the feeble looking (non steel) variety and do check the "load capacity" to make sure you have plenty for cameras, guide scopes and the like

You will need motors & tracking for photos so that pushes the price up

 

Here are are couple to give you a flavour, there are plenty of variations on a theme...

Reflector (on EQ mount)

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-200p-eq5-goto.html

SCT (on AZ mount)

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/se-series/celestron-nexstar-6se.html

 

Or separates route...

Spend most of your budget on the best mount you can stretch to & add your own scope to it...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-eq5-pro-synscan-goto.html

 

Try and get familiar with the mount types and the scope type differences...

 

[Markh68]

Many thanks for the advice. I have had a brief look at mounts and it seems the best way to go especially if any photography is in mind is using an EQ mount.

[alanjgreen]

When you think you have identified 2 or 3 scope final choice list, post up the list for people to critique

Also, seach the imaging topics with the scope name and you will get to see what pics can be achieved with that scope. You will also see what "other" kit people are using with that scope.

 

[Markh68]

25 minutes ago, bottletopburly said:

 clubs here https://stargazerslounge.com/forum/156-west-midlands/ 

Expensive nooooo, just depends how deep your pockets are  

Thanks bottle top burly I will have look at the clubs link. It sounds like deep pockets are required for serious astrophotography.

[Markh68]

I have been looking around the manufacturers sites and have had a look at used equipment as well.

I would like scope with goto on it. Also I have seen used a Skywatcher 200pds on an EQ mount and one on a HEQ mount.

Also a Celestron C8 NGT.

I am tending towards a Newt as the type of scope but might consider a good refractor.

[spaceman_spiff]

The HEQ5 mount is a well regarded piece of kit. It should just about handle the 200PDS but if you add new equipment then you will need a bigger mount. I own the normal EQ5 pro mount and I use it for Solar, planetary and Lunar imaging because this does not require pin point accurate tracking. I do think the 200PDS may be too heavy for it and tracking performance may be poor as a result. 

A small triplet APO or ED doublet refractor is versatile and easier to mount making it probably the best choice for imaging. For visual astronomy a bigger newt will impress more. I am currently weighing up a 200PDS or a triplet refractor for myself and i'm leaning towards the latter mainly because I tend to image more than observe.

In other words, get the best mount you can... HEQ5 is a good bet:

- more choice of scopes should you change later,

- good mounts keep their value well,

- potential for better quality images.

The telescope choice is more difficult. Both the 200PDS and a small APO/ED refractor are good choices...

I don't know much about the C8, but it will be great on bright targets like the planets, Sun and Moon. At f10 it will be dim for DSOs (you will need very long exposures with it to show faint detail).

The one thing I can say for certain is that most spending on astro equipment is mainly on small upgrades (filters, eyepieces, barlow lenses, dew heaters...etc). Very rarely (in my case anyway) do I make big purchases over £200.

HTH Dan 

[Dave In Vermont]

Hi there again, Mark. A question for you: Do you have a copy of Stellarium yet on your computer?

Dave

[ronin]

Astro clubs: http://www.astronomyclubs.co.uk/Clubs/Counties.aspx

Only 2 listed for Staffordshire, one is Stafford however, but the web page/site for them appears more then a little dead. Guess you may have to visit the actual place it is/reported to be at in order to progress further.

[Louis D]

How about your ability to store and transport a telescope?  Will you be observing from your backyard, patio, balcony or from a dark site?  Do you have many stairs and doorways to have to traverse with your scope to get to your observing site?  If a dark site, do you have a car?  How big is the trunk or backseat?  How much weight can you carry in one trip?  How much space do you have to store the scope?

[Markh68]

2 hours ago, Dave In Vermont said:

Hi there again, Mark. A question for you: Do you have a copy of Stellarium yet on your computer?

Dave

Yes Dave I have already installed this on my laptop.

[Markh68]

2 hours ago, spaceman_spiff said:

The HEQ5 mount is a well regarded piece of kit. It should just about handle the 200PDS but if you add new equipment then you will need a bigger mount. I own the normal EQ5 pro mount and I use it for Solar, planetary and Lunar imaging because this does not require pin point accurate tracking. I do think the 200PDS may be too heavy for it and tracking performance may be poor as a result. 

A small triplet APO or ED doublet refractor is versatile and easier to mount making it probably the best choice for imaging. For visual astronomy a bigger newt will impress more. I am currently weighing up a 200PDS or a triplet refractor for myself and i'm leaning towards the latter mainly because I tend to image more than observe.

In other words, get the best mount you can... HEQ5 is a good bet:

- more choice of scopes should you change later,

- good mounts keep their value well,

- potential for better quality images.

The telescope choice is more difficult. Both the 200PDS and a small APO/ED refractor are good choices...

I don't know much about the C8, but it will be great on bright targets like the planets, Sun and Moon. At f10 it will be dim for DSOs (you will need very long exposures with it to show faint detail).

The one thing I can say for certain is that most spending on astro equipment is mainly on small upgrades (filters, eyepieces, barlow lenses, dew heaters...etc). Very rarely (in my case anyway) do I make big purchases over £200.

HTH Dan 

Hi Dan,

In terms of a refractor what is a good one to be looking at?

[Markh68]

1 hour ago, ronin said:

Astro clubs: http://www.astronomyclubs.co.uk/Clubs/Counties.aspx

Only 2 listed for Staffordshire, one is Stafford however, but the web page/site for them appears more then a little dead. Guess you may have to visit the actual place it is/reported to be at in order to progress further.

Thanks Ronin,

I will look into astronomy clubs using the link you supplied 

[Dave In Vermont]

In terms of how much it would cost you per inch of aperture, the reflector telescope would be the least expensive, followed by the 5" Maksutov. Most £££ would be an APO/Triplet-refractor. By miles! A 5" refractor with APO would cost you several thousand £'s.

I'd suggest doing some research into the differences between an 'Achromatic Refractor' and the 'APO-Refractor.'

Dave

[Markh68]

1 hour ago, Louis D said:

How about your ability to store and transport a telescope?  Will you be observing from your backyard, patio, balcony or from a dark site?  Do you have many stairs and doorways to have to traverse with your scope to get to your observing site?  If a dark site, do you have a car?  How big is the trunk or backseat?  How much weight can you carry in one trip?  How much space do you have to store the scope?

Hi Louis D,

I have reasonable space for storing a scope + transporting isn't a prob as do have a car. Initially I will learn observing in my backyard but hopefully progress to a dark site. My car is adequate for transporting a scope and all the other equipment that is required. Also don't have any stairs to go up / down.

[Markh68]

3 minutes ago, Dave In Vermont said:

In terms of how much it would cost you per inch of aperture, the reflector telescope would be the least expensive, followed by the 5" Maksutov. Most £££ would be an APO/Triplet-refractor. By miles! A 5" refractor with APO would cost you several thousand £'s.

I'd suggest doing some research into the differences between an 'Achromatic Refractor' and the 'APO-Refractor.'

Dave

I will look into refractors. How good are Mak's for observing planets and DSO's?

[Dave In Vermont]

The Maksutov designs are very good on planets, and other targets with a narrow format in a DSO, such as ring-nebulae and globular-clusters. They're not so great for expansive targets - such as the Veil-Nebula. Mak's are often compared to the view one gets from a APO-Refractor, at a much reduced cost. Which is seen in the upsurge of purchases of these powerful, little telescopes.

No one telescope can do everything, but if you don't mind a narrow field-of-view (FOV), they are a very good choice. Which is why you find many of use own more than one telescope.

Dave

 

[Markh68]

Thanks Dave,

What is good example of a Mak that I could have a look at and a reasonably priced refractor?

[Markh68]

Is a Skywatcher 200 PDS ok on a HEQ-5 Mount?

[Dave In Vermont]

5 hours ago, Markh68 said:

Thanks Dave,

What is good example of a Mak that I could have a look at and a reasonably priced refractor?

Okay - I'm back. Let's see now. For a good Maksutov, that seems to be the most popular one as I know the most people who have one, is the 127mm F/12. Here's some good information on this very popular model:

http://scopeviews.co.uk/SW127Mak.htm

And you can poke about different shops online to find different mounts and prices. Celestron also has these - in a different colour and some other peripheral differences. And Meade does as well. All being from the same factory in China - Synta.

Now let's go fishing for a 4-inch, or so, apochromatic refractor. And we find a Explore Scientific 120mm Apochromatic Refractor - although in the USA:

https://www.optcorp.com/explore-scientific-102mm-f-7-essential-series-apo-triplet-refractor-no-case-ed10207-01.html

And here's a achromatic (two lens-elements) refractor in comparison - price-wise:

http://www.highpointscientific.com/explore-scientific-102-mm-air-spaced-doublet-refractor-telescope-ota-dar102065-01?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=EXS-DAR102065-01&gclid=CKzKuJWK39ECFYiLswod-iAPNw

This first telescope, the $999.00 Apochromatic Refractor, is about what you can expect for this. While the second telescope, the $399.00 Achromatic Refractor, shows the major jump in price with the terms 'APO' used. While an 'Achro' reflects a major price-drop. Why, you may well wonder? This is why I tasked you to do some research on what this difference truly reflects.

Besides - my personal opinion would get rocks & bottles thrown at me by the "APO - Purist-Squad!" <put down the flaming-torches! I was just kidding!>

I went after a 4" refractor to allow some leeway for the central-obstruction of the 5" Maksutov v. the refractor - as they have no central-obstruction. And this is why many folks love refractors - the aperture is straight-through optical-pathway and considered the way to seeing the sharpest, high-contrast views. But the Maksutov-design come very close according to most experienced people. Myself included. I own both.

So that should give you some fuel-for-thought. Going to a local astronomy-club and looking through examples of both (or all three) varieties would be a good idea.

Hope this helps -

Dave

[Markh68]

Cheers Dave for the advice.

I have had a quick look round and the difference is quite significant between Achromatic and Apochromatic. it looks like for serious imaging work the APO is the type to have.

I have come across the Skywatcher 127 Mak and I will give that consideration but I do like reflectors will have to research more.

Is a Skywatcher 200 PDS a good OTA?

[spaceman_spiff]

10 hours ago, Markh68 said:

Hi Dan,

In terms of a refractor what is a good one to be looking at?

Well the ones I've been looking at are:

- Skywatcher ED 80 £479. http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php

- Starwave 70 ED triplet APO travel refractor £599 (out of stock currently).  http://www.tringastro.co.uk/starwave-70-ed-triplet-apo-travel-refractor-10469-p.asp

The Starwave is a bit more expensive but it is a triplet refractor and should produce better colour correction. I have test this in store and it is very impressive.

These scopes are not what I would call beginner scopes, they are the type of scope you buy once you know that you are hooked on astronomy. I started with a large achromatic refractor that costs a fraction of the scopes above...and I still have it and love it. They have the advantage of being small, easy to mount, robust, high contrast and have a wide field of view.

The 200PDS is an excellent scope, I was considering it but I am now looking for an imaging scope with a 400-600mm focal length. I did quite a lot of research on the 200PDS and concluded that it would outperform my large achromat refractor especially if you add the coma corrector (maybe I should have started with it). At 1000mm it will capture lots of DSOs in the frame of a standard DSLR. However, there are DSOs like the Andromeda galaxy and Heart and Soul nebula that are too big and you will need to do a mosaic. At F/L=5 the 200PDS is fast, faster that the refractors above meaning that your images will be brighter at given exposure which helps both imaging and normal observing. 

Compared to the Mak 127, I think the 200PDS is slightly better in terms of usability. I own the similar Mak 150 and it is perfect for Lunar, Planetary and Solar imaging: it is easy to mount, well corrected for false colour, high contrast and doesn't lose colimation easily but for DSO work it is dim and the FoV is small.

HTH Dan 

[Markh68]

Cheers Dan,

So what is the minimum mount required for use with a 200PDS?

Also for DSOs such as Andromeda Galaxy what is best so you wouldn't have to do a mosaic.

[Dave In Vermont]

36 minutes ago, Markh68 said:

Cheers Dave for the advice.

I have had a quick look round and the difference is quite significant between Achromatic and Apochromatic. it looks like for serious imaging work the APO is the type to have.

I have come across the Skywatcher 127 Mak and I will give that consideration but I do like reflectors will have to research more.

Is a Skywatcher 200 PDS a good OTA?

Actually, it's quite untrue that you need to spend a bucket of money on APO's to do 'serious' astro-photography work. Quite a few very well liked astro-photographers do their work with a ST80 achromatic refractor. The ST80 is one of the least expensive telescopes available. They have an 80mm achromatic-doublet with a small 400mm focal-length. Over in your land, Skywatcher offers these, while here they are coming from Orion-USA.  All of these come from the previously mentioned 'Synta' in China.

A Google-search of astrophotography with ST80's will find you a long list of places to explore, such as:

http://www.astrophotography-tonight.com/astrophotography-comparing-three-80mm-refractors/

While a search for images taken with these are also abundant:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Astrophotos+with+ST80?&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiIidGfyt_RAhVKKyYKHVMUDOMQ7AkIMw&biw=1600&bih=742

 

You'll find many of us include one (or more) of these in our telescope herds. Here's one of mine I am re-tooling to give to someone:

 

 

So the myth (Perhaps from makers & sellers of APO's?) of needing an APO for serious work with AP is quite untrue. And here's a Google-link to demonstrate:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Astrophotos+with+ST80%3F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

See you later!

Dave