Tak vs Tak

[Stu]

Had a nice little session with my astro group tonight, joined by Gavster for the first time with his Tak FC100DL. I had my FC100DC with me, as well as an OMC140.

Gavin's scope was on a Porta II mount with beefed up legs and nice slow mo controls. It just coped with this scope but the extra length was challenging at high power.

My two were on a Giro WR on a Gitzo. More stable but more hassle balancing and rebalancing when changing eyepieces. Maybe there is something in this slo mo thing after all?  

I confess I didn't spend too much time with the Mak, the two fracs were just generally delivering such lovely views we concentrated on them. I won't go into too much detail here as this was only a fairly casual comparison, but on both the Trapezium and Sigma Orionis we both felt that the DL was just a smidge better than the DC. The E star was visible in both scopes, but more solidly there in the DL. I was using BGOs in the DC, Gavin had a (some would say extravagant  ) pair of Leicas which he kindly allowed me to borrow, so even with the same eyepiece at similar power I think there was still a difference. I guess this is to be expected with the additional focal length and, I believe, more accurate figure in the DL? 

The DC has the benefit of being a fair amount more compact and potentially airline portable so they each have something to offer. We had some lovely views of open clusters later on using my ES 20mm 100 degree which performed extremely well.

So, interesting to see the difference between these scopes and something which we can hopefully explore more in future. I should bring my Vixen F9 Fluorite into the mix too to see how that fairs against the DL. Viewing Jupiter later in the year should be a very interesting test.

Nice to meet you @Gavster, thanks for bringing your lovely scope along, we just need to persuade you to bring the TEC140 along next time  

[John]

Excellent report Stu

What a wonderful opportunity to try two superb scopes out side by side. Gavster has a Tak FC F/7.4 as well as the F/9 I believe - lucky chap !

 

[jetstream]

Great report Stu!

After reading this I'm back wanting a Tak refractor badly... and I'm a mirror guy lol!

[GavStar]

Thank you Stu for the very fun evening. I normally observe on my own so it was nice to have company (and a guide to the sky ?). I think you are being diplomatic regarding the porta 2, even with the beefed up Hal 100 legs, the vibrations were frustrating at high power. The porta 2 is much better with shorter scopes like the DC and DL. (T-Rex from now on with the DL). 

We agreed that our scopes were very close and both gave lovely views. One difference I know is that the DL has a different coating (brown colour) to the DF and DC (green) and possibly this also was a factor? I thought the transmission of the DL was maybe a little better e.g. On the fourth star of Sigma Orionis. As you know I was very impressed with your 100 degree 20mm ES and in the DC it framed some objects such as M45 better imo than my 30mm Pentax xw in the DL.

I really enjoyed looking at the open clusters at the end and was surprised how clear the two galaxies were through your DC!

I'll be back and next time it will be with the Tec...

Thanks again and very good report.

[alan potts]

Very nice report Stu, TEC 140, now that is a scope I would like.

Alan

[laudropb]

Very nice report Stu.

[PeterW]

Was a good session, interesting comparisons, but I will need to make changes to my footwear selection next time we decide to go out in the frost!

 

cheers

 

PEterW

[Cjg]

@Stu, and @Gavster, if ever you fancy visiting the AstroCamp at Cwmdu, there's usually a Tak Corner with myself and @DirkSteele, plus Dave Woodford (@makapala on Twitter) and Eric Emms who I think has a William Optics, be great to share the views. 

Best,

Chris

[Stu]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

Was a good session, interesting comparisons, but I will need to make changes to my footwear selection next time we decide to go out in the frost!

 

cheers

 

PEterW

'''Twas a tad chilly Peter, you are right there! I was also 'under shod' as they say, and the toes were well and truly numb by the time we finished after 11pm.

[Stu]

55 minutes ago, Cjg said:

@Stu, and @Gavster, if ever you fancy visiting the AstroCamp at Cwmdu, there's usually a Tak Corner with myself and @DirkSteele, plus Dave Woodford (@makapala on Twitter) and Eric Emms who I think has a William Optics, be great to share the views. 

Best,

Chris

Thanks Chris, sounds good. When is it?

[PeterW]

Jetstream you'll be needing one of these then... fast for those pesky nebulae! 

http://www.vixenoptics.com/Vixen-VSD-100mm-f-3-8-Astrograph-p/26145.htm

galaxies Stu, what else did we miss??

gavster, definitely need to do more joint observing, always beat shared! Maybe up the reflector count next time ;-)

Cjg, letting WO into the Tak corner.... sounds like the thin end of the wedge??

 

cheers

 

PEterW

 

 

 

[Stu]

56 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Jetstream you'll be needing one of these then... fast for those pesky nebulae! 

http://www.vixenoptics.com/Vixen-VSD-100mm-f-3-8-Astrograph-p/26145.htm

galaxies Stu, what else did we miss??

gavster, definitely need to do more joint observing, always beat shared! Maybe up the reflector count next time ;-)

Cjg, letting WO into the Tak corner.... sounds like the thin end of the wedge??

 

cheers

 

PEterW

 

 

 

We had a little tour around the Auriga clusters, Beehive and then M81/82. N'owt exotic but lovely drinking in all those tiny stars in the Double Cluster and the other OCs. Not sure if you had left before NGC457?

We also got the 37 Cluster which was better with a bit more mag/aperture in the Mak

[Cjg]

@Stu is here, http://astrocamp.awesomeastronomy.com/ the Spring one a little earlier this year, and September for Autumn. 

Chris

[PeterW]

Top notch for giving dates into the future, really helps with planning! I left after 457 and and the double cluster...  would have been fun to catch the others... next time.

 

peter

[Stu]

4 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Top notch for giving dates into the future, really helps with planning! I left after 457 and and the double cluster...  would have been fun to catch the others... next time.

 

peter

Let's all be a bit more prepared for observing next time if it looks clear.

I will probably bring a decent mount and the C925 next time which would be fun.

[mikeDnight]

On 20/01/2017 at 08:17, Gavster said:

Thank you Stu for the very fun evening. I normally observe on my own so it was nice to have company (and a guide to the sky ?). I think you are being diplomatic regarding the porta 2, even with the beefed up Hal 100 legs, the vibrations were frustrating at high power. The porta 2 is much better with shorter scopes like the DC and DL. (T-Rex from now on with the DL). 

We agreed that our scopes were very close and both gave lovely views. One difference I know is that the DL has a different coating (brown colour) to the DF and DC (green) and possibly this also was a factor? I thought the transmission of the DL was maybe a little better e.g. On the fourth star of Sigma Orionis. As you know I was very impressed with your 100 degree 20mm ES and in the DC it framed some objects such as M45 better imo than my 30mm Pentax xw in the DL.

I really enjoyed looking at the open clusters at the end and was surprised how clear the two galaxies were through your DC!

I'll be back and next time it will be with the Tec...

Thanks again and very good report.

That's curious about the different coatings on your DL and Stu's DC Gavin. My DC's coatings are definitely coffee brown with no hint of green. My old FS refractors were green but not my DC.

Mike

[jabeoo1]

On 1/20/2017 at 03:58, jetstream said:

Great report Stu!

After reading this I'm back wanting a Tak refractor badly... and I'm a mirror guy lol!

Gerry if you are near by PM me.  You can look through mine, it will help

James 

[jetstream]

46 minutes ago, jabeoo1 said:

Gerry if you are near by PM me.  You can look through mine, it will help

James 

I'd love to look through a Tak... the thing is I'm in Canada with not many astronomers around here. Throw a dart at Rainy Lake and you'll come close to my place.

[PeterW]

No nearby folk=dark skies....!

The different image scale and object framing was interesting.

 

peter

PS there are several Rainy Lakes all surrounded by other lakes and endless forests....

Edited January 22, 2017 by PeterW
Addition

[jabeoo1]

11 hours ago, jetstream said:

I'd love to look through a Tak... the thing is I'm in Canada with not many astronomers around here. Throw a dart at Rainy Lake and you'll come close to my place.

Ah okay I see the issue.  Sounds like a fantastic location

[mikeDnight]

On 20/01/2017 at 00:27, Stu said:

Had a nice little session with my astro group tonight, joined by Gavster for the first time with his Tak FC100DL. I had my FC100DC with me, as well as an OMC140.

Gavin's scope was on a Porta II mount with beefed up legs and nice slow mo controls. It just coped with this scope but the extra length was challenging at high power.

My two were on a Giro WR on a Gitzo. More stable but more hassle balancing and rebalancing when changing eyepieces. Maybe there is something in this slo mo thing after all?  

I confess I didn't spend too much time with the Mak, the two fracs were just generally delivering such lovely views we concentrated on them. I won't go into too much detail here as this was only a fairly casual comparison, but on both the Trapezium and Sigma Orionis we both felt that the DL was just a smidge better than the DC. The E star was visible in both scopes, but more solidly there in the DL. I was using BGOs in the DC, Gavin had a (some would say extravagant  ) pair of Leicas which he kindly allowed me to borrow, so even with the same eyepiece at similar power I think there was still a difference. I guess this is to be expected with the additional focal length and, I believe, more accurate figure in the DL? 

The DC has the benefit of being a fair amount more compact and potentially airline portable so they each have something to offer. We had some lovely views of open clusters later on using my ES 20mm 100 degree which performed extremely well.

So, interesting to see the difference between these scopes and something which we can hopefully explore more in future. I should bring my Vixen F9 Fluorite into the mix too to see how that fairs against the DL. Viewing Jupiter later in the year should be a very interesting test.

Nice to meet you @Gavster, thanks for bringing your lovely scope along, we just need to persuade you to bring the TEC140 along next time  

Did you try swapping diagonals Stu, to see if the E & F stars were more easily seen through one over the other? Himoru in Japan, and who posts on CN, is in direct contact with Takahashi. He's posted that according to Takahashi, their optics are better figured now than they've ever been. Daniel Mounsey, also on CN and who's tested many of the new FC100's, did imply some inconsistency in some of the figuring. After testing several FC F7.4's alongside several FC F9's he found two of the F9's not to be as well figured as the F7.4's under test. However, I seriously doubt Takahashi would allow a poor lens through the net. Himoru pointed out that in the 90's, Takahashi trashed 50% of the fluorite lenses that Cannon supplied as being substandard, showing their insistence on optical perfection.

Also, are your DC coatings green as Gavin said? My DC coatings are definitely coffee brown, with not a hint of green, just like the DL. 

Mike

[Stu]

23 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

Did you try swapping diagonals Stu, to see if the E & F stars were more easily seen through one over the other? Himoru in Japan, and who posts on CN, is in direct contact with Takahashi. He's posted that according to Takahashi, their optics are better figured now than they've ever been. Daniel Mounsey, also on CN and who's tested many of the new FC100's, did imply some inconsistency in some of the figuring. After testing several FC F7.4's alongside several FC F9's he found two of the F9's not to be as well figured as the F7.4's under test. However, I seriously doubt Takahashi would allow a poor lens through the net. Himoru pointed out that in the 90's, Takahashi trashed 50% of the fluorite lenses that Cannon supplied as being substandard, showing their insistence on optical perfection.

Also, are your DC coatings green as Gavin said? My DC coatings are definitely coffee brown, with not a hint of green, just like the DL. 

Mike

I'll check the coatings when I get home Mike, can't remember currently.

I've always been very impressed with my DC, although I can't recall the last time I had a night which I would say had good to excellent seeing. When I first had it I did have quite a few good sessions and the star shapes were just lovely. Views of Jupiter at the last opposition backed that up.

I must try it next to the Vixen though, that would be interesting.

[GavStar]

1 hour ago, mikeDnight said:

Did you try swapping diagonals Stu, to see if the E & F stars were more easily seen through one over the other? Himoru in Japan, and who posts on CN, is in direct contact with Takahashi. He's posted that according to Takahashi, their optics are better figured now than they've ever been. Daniel Mounsey, also on CN and who's tested many of the new FC100's, did imply some inconsistency in some of the figuring. After testing several FC F7.4's alongside several FC F9's he found two of the F9's not to be as well figured as the F7.4's under test. However, I seriously doubt Takahashi would allow a poor lens through the net. Himoru pointed out that in the 90's, Takahashi trashed 50% of the fluorite lenses that Cannon supplied as being substandard, showing their insistence on optical perfection.

Also, are your DC coatings green as Gavin said? My DC coatings are definitely coffee brown, with not a hint of green, just like the DL. 

Mike

Mike,

Your comments got me checking my DF and DL just to make sure and my DF definitely has a green coating (the differing coatings between the DF and DL has been mentioned on CN before). See the attached photo which hopefully shows this - DL on the left. I admit I didn't specifically check Stu's coatings (?) the other night but just assumed it would be green like mine. My DF was an early one so maybe it's just that tak has updated the coatings in all the d series and my comments about a difference there are a red herring. Sorry. I'm interested to find out what colour Stu's coatings actually are though?

Edited January 22, 2017 by Gavster

[jetstream]

Stu, I'm curious what diagonal you were using as well, did you have the Baader/Zeiss prism out?

[Stu]

Still need to take a better photo but they look greenish in the photo in this thread.