Beginner Scope / Mount Question

[SpaceFish]

So here goes, first post after the welcome.

 

And I am sorry now if (and i'm sure it has been too many times) this has been asked before. So (deep breath, and rant / vent) my first foray in to astronomy was an Argos Special that even while looking at the moon, the mount was so weak that it would drift down as I was looking (and no, not in the Earth is rotating sense). Being a massive lover of all things space I am sure many of you know how infuriating this is.

 

Ultimately my aim is to go down the AP route but this is way off and way out of my budget at the moment; Esprit 80ED on a EQ6 is my current pipe dream. But for now I want something small and relatively inexpensive by comparison to learn the basics of visual astronomy, but better than what I have. I recently joined my local Astronomy Club and the guys there are great but every-time I go, I go knowing I want x scope but then speak to someone else and want that too, so looking for some more opinions.

 

My current thoughts are something like a Skywatcher Evostar 90 since I will be taking it back and forwards to the Club while I learn how to use it properly. Although also debating between that and a Skywatcher Explorer 130PDS. Sadly I can't afford more in the way of scope for now and the Dob options out as I don't want to hump that back and forward each week at the moment.

 

So two questions really. For lightweight and visual any pros and cons over each other? And for now, the bigger one for me as I budget, can anyone tell me is it worth the extra outlay to get the EQ3-2 instead of the EQ2 for either scope? Thinking about the compromise between stability and weight here. Also I know its not even the baby brother but the EQ3-2 looks a bit more like the bigger boys so would it be easier to learn to use that, then, move to a bigger mount or is the EQ2 just as good to learn by doing?

 

Sorry for so many questions but as you can tell I am trying to avoid previous frustrations.

 

Thanks.

[MarkyD]

The 130P-DS is a cracking scope - alot swear by it.  For the mount go for the best you can afford.  The standard for AP is usually the NEQ6 - pricey but good and will handle larger payloads.  I'm sure there are some 2nd hand ones around as some have upgraded to the NEQ8

[MARS1960]

+1 for 130 PD-S, ive never had one but i did have the 200 PD-S.

Also a used mount IMO is the way to go on a budget, you will find a few used examples and many other goodies here.

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/browse.php

[SpaceFish]

Thanks for the quick reply. If it gets me more bang for the proverbial buck I have no problem going used.

[mak90fan]

Always be open to buying used equipment, high street or ebay, gumtree, I guarantee you will be pleasantly shocked how cheap some used equipment sells for. Almost all of my past & current set up is used. I find this approach opens up more options for those on a starter budget. 

Enjoy the hunt...clear skies

[bottletopburly]

im sure there is a 130 pds for sale on astrobuy in the sunderland area at the moment use the search feature to find it 

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=120522

[brantuk]

Once you have the scope - you should be able to pick up a used EQ5 in very good condition under 2yrs old for around £100-£125. It'll be much more stable than the ally mounts and you can save for motors in the future to have a dabble with imaging. That's the minimum mount I'd go for even for observing - the others are too wobbly imho.

[skywatcher58gb]

You would have no problem mounting either scope on an EQ3-2, obviously the bigger the mount the more stable but the EQ3-2 isn't bad for stability. Also the mount is quite light to transport and second hand ones are always available, another good thing is these mounts can easily be stripped down and rebuilt / re-greased and adjusted and are pretty bomb proof. I sold one as a complete set up which I had motorised with a Helios150, after a while I missed the quick grab and go and so I got myself another second hand which I use with a Skywatcher ST102.

[Ricochet]

I would get the 130pds on an az4. I think FLO offer that as a bundle. You don't want to be lugging an eq mount, even a lightweight one, if you don't have to for visual observation at the club. The 130pds is also a common choice for AP so you will only have to save up for/look out for a decent second hand eq mount to start imaging in the future. If you get the evostar then you'll be in the position of needing both a scope and mount to start imaging. 

[SpaceFish]

Thanks for all the replies. Its more question time...

 

So it seems like the EQ5 is the way to go, can I ask if many of you take them out with you? Just wondering how portable it will be? Again a long way off but if I wanted to dip my toe in to AP, I have a decent DSLR already, would the combo of the EQ5 and the 130pds be enough for very entry level, as in something to learn on before upgrading? I know its not an option with the Evostar with the CA.

 

The other question being, I don't have much experience with either new or old "real" equipment. Just how do I know if I am getting good second hand or someones dropped and beaten kit? Thanks for that link bottletopburly, that could be ideal for me and between that sort of of price £110 and a second hand EQ5 at around £125 (thanks brantuk), That is less than I was expecting to pay for a new Evostar with the EQ3-2 so might even be able to add another EP or Dew shield to the list.

 

Thanks again.

[brantuk]

Yup - a basic EQ5 mount with steel tripod (but no motors) should be in the £125 approx region. The motors will be around £95 for both brand new or £65 for an RA only - but check for online bargains too on the motors - they do come up from time to time. When you see a mount you fancy going to look at - post a link up here and we'll give you some pointers. It might be a good idea to pop down to your local astro soc and have a look at some scopes and mounts so you get an idea of "condition". Hth

[cjdawson]

If you want an off the wall suggestion.... How about think forward for when you will be wanting to do the AP.  Now, as part of that setup, you are most likely going to want a guide scope of some description.

So why am I mentioning the idea of a guide scope when you are talking about a first telescope?  (I don't count the argos one)

This is a cunning plan and something that I would have considered if I'd thought about it when I was first getting into astronomy.

Buy your first telescope, with the idea of it becoming your guide scope later in life.   It will give it a whole new purpose and meaning.

 

So, let's talk about guide scopes.

There are two very basic varieties of guide scope, and what I'm suggesting doesn't limit you later, it just means thinking about things a little now and seeing if you want to use this option - nothing stopping you from backing out later on either.

So, guide scope varieties.

1. Finderguider.  These are relatively new,  they're basically finderscopes with cameras.   Not suitable for this cunning plan, but it's worth noting that they exist.  You might want to do this route later on.

2. A refractor.

And with this thought, I give you a staple that loads of people love as their guide scopes.  The SkyWatcher ST-80 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-80-eq1.html

It's a very basic scope, and it comes with an EQ 1 mount.      I bought one of these to use as a guide scope (mine is the light blue version)  As a refractor scope, I think it's a great addition to any setup.

The EQ-1 mount is a bit wobbly, so you might want to rethink that and go for an EQ-2 or something like that.  There are posts on how to make the mount stiffer, which it would benefit from.   Don't get me wrong, it's not terrible, it'll hold the scope easily.  Just that it wobbles more that I like when I touch it.

You might not like the ST-80 specifically, the idea behind this post is to suggest a Short tube refactor.  They make sure good basic starter scopes, and later in life they make great guide scopes.

 

[Louis D]

I've said this before and I'll say it again.  Lugging a fully assembled 8" dob around is much easier than lugging a fully assembled EQ5 with counterweights and OTA attached.  With the former, you can quickly break it down into two even easier to lug parts.  With the latter, it takes a while to disassemble and reassemble the pieces.  This is an extremely important point for me because I have to move my scope around my backyard/side yard/front yard to observe different parts of the sky due to obstructions (buildings, foliage, etc.).  That's why I rarely align my DSCs.  I'd have to realign them after each move.  Consider how you will be using your scope before you commit to a particular type.

[SpaceFish]

Well its right back to head scratching time. Lots to think about.

 

CJ, now that is one right out of left field. Never would have thought of that (and not only because I hadn't heard of finders / finderguiders until your post) but because I really wasn't thinking that long term. Can I ask what the views are actually like in the ST-80, what I mean is, with the supplied EPs, could I for instance see the four moons (yes I know, many more in reality) of Jupiter, and a little cloud belt detail? Saturn's rings, a hint of Martian detail, M42 etc. Or is that the realm of the slightly longer refractors and wider reflectors. Sorry if these seem stupid questions but I am happy to admit that I know nothing.

 

Having looked around and also read the above posts I think I will avoid the EQ5 purely for the lugging back and forwards side of things. I will then save up and get a second hand one which I will use at home while I am able to use the smaller mount at the club.

 

Unfortunately im still debating the 130pds or now an ST-80 (depending on what I can see with it). Definitely going to ask the guys at Sunderlandastro to let me play with their scopes a bit more before I put down any money though. Definitely looking forward to that first light moment no matter what I get though. This time I know whatever I decide on it will be a proper (if baby version compared to what most of you have) scope.

 

Thanks for all the advice.

 

 

[Louis D]

5 hours ago, SpaceFish said:

Can I ask what the views are actually like in the ST-80, what I mean is, with the supplied EPs, could I for instance see the four moons (yes I know, many more in reality) of Jupiter, and a little cloud belt detail? Saturn's rings, a hint of Martian detail, M42 etc.

Absolutely you'll be able to see he Galilean moons of Jupiter.  You can easily see them in most any pair of binoculars.  Same goes for the rings of Saturn, though it is more difficult to make them out in binoculars.  You may be able to make out bands on Jupiter.  Being low contrast, they are tougher with an achromatic refractor because false color tends to wash out such details.  Mars?  Even in the best of scopes on the closest passes, it is difficult to make out details.  M42, certainly.  It's naked eye visible after all.  Even the Trapezium is easily within reach.  Picking out members E and F, not really.

The Pleiades and Hyades are also easy due to their size and the ST-80's wide field of view.  Most of the Messier open star clusters are easy targets as well.  Forget about galaxies except for M31 (whose core and satellites will show as fuzzy patches).  Globular clusters may never resolve due to resolution limitations.  They'll remain fuzzy for the most part.

I hope that helps.  You'll be surprised what you can see with such a telescope.  It just won't be pristine due to chromatic aberration and field curvature.

[happy-kat]

If you want to observe then there is always room for a grab and go tripod, the az4 looks nice and fit the bill. You don't need a telescope to get started in imaging camera lenses can be very effective. I have an st80 it did respond well to better eyepieces but in time you'd want to improve what came with any scope anyway, I did see the main belts on Jupiter with my 6mm but there will be chromatic aberration, m44 bee hive cluster looks great. 

[SpaceFish]

Thanks for the quick and really helpful replies. Exactly what I needed to hear. I'll let you know what I decide.