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Jon the Newb

I"m growing increasingly bored....:(

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Don't think anyone's mentioned Open Clusters.  Lots of  'em, easy to locate, and an absolute joy to stare and marvel at.  Sure, you'd see more detail in them with less LP, but they're still beautiful targets.  My favourite class of target, in fact!

Doug.

 

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Lots of good tips in this post, I observe mostly from a light polluted site. Double stars, open Clusters, and the moon and planets are always within reach even in my 80mm refractor.

If you branch out to other lists like Caldwell and pick out the easiest targets there are a few that are not so popular but are good even from a light polluted site.

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5 hours ago, Alan64 said:

Hello Jon,

I have an 80mm telescope.  Does yours look like this...

Antares 805h.jpg

If so, then you might have this...

71Fuc4NTmcL._SX522_.jpg

...or this...

Celestron_21048_Powerseeker_80_EQ_3_1_80

The first of those two is for deep-sky viewing, primarily, and the second can actually do both: lunar/planetary and deep-sky.

Since you said that everything is tiny, I'm guessing you have the first. 

Do you have a range of eyepieces, and a 2x or 3x barlow?

 

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Alanjgreen- I bookmarked both os those links.  This do look fun and interesting in terms of finding lunar features, as well as the fuzzy objects.

Alan64-I'm guessing I have the first one? Here's the link to what I have-http://www.ioptron.com/v/Manuals/8500_Cube-E_manual.pdf if that allows you to view it, maye you can tell if mine is intended for deep sky viewing, or both?

Again, I can't stress how thankful I am to all of the helpful ideas and  motivation people have posted in response.  Looking back now, it seems I was being quite lazy.  I have a Nikon D90 that's going to dust off and buy the necessary accessories to hook the camera up to the scope.  I have no idea where to even begin, but I've been wanting to begin astrography from the day I started viewing the night sky!

Jon

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If I do not get out in the Sun for 2 or 3 days that get me down . so like today Sun out and I am taking photo of clouds. allways something to get you back on your feet.

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On a side note, my apologies to the moderators and anyone on this site I may have offended. 

I see the word ars* was replaced with "bottom" in one of my replies. I thought word I used was the safe version, but looks like I was wrong. 

I just wanted to apologize again and will be more careful in the future.  

 

Jon

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2 hours ago, Jon the Newb said:

On a side note, my apologies to the moderators and anyone on this site I may have offended. 

I see the word ars* was replaced with "bottom" in one of my replies. I thought word I used was the safe version, but looks like I was wrong. 

I just wanted to apologize again and will be more careful in the future.  

 

Jon

Thanks John :) 

We do try to be family friendly so I'm sure you can come up with some polite but still amusing alternatives to anything which might trouble the swear filter :)

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The great thing about camera is you can start now you don't need to use your telescope.

read from the begining of the blob is best

If you do end up using your telescope then you'll want to see this thread.

link here

Your mount I think moves in tiny left right up down movement so an object stays in the field of view but rotates because the Earth does. This will limit the length of exposure you can use but it doesn't mean you can't use what you have. You will probably need a 2 inch extension when you use a camera.

I'll add links in a bit, now added

 

Edited by happy-kat

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11 hours ago, Alan64 said:

Hello Jon,

I have an 80mm telescope.  Does yours look like this...

Antares 805h.jpg

If so, then you might have this...

71Fuc4NTmcL._SX522_.jpg

...or this...

Celestron_21048_Powerseeker_80_EQ_3_1_80

The first of those two is for deep-sky viewing, primarily, and the second can actually do both: lunar/planetary and deep-sky.

Since you said that everything is tiny, I'm guessing you have the first. 

Do you have a range of eyepieces, and a 2x or 3x barlow?

Hi Alan64

Nice alt-az mount and pillar in pic 1! What is it? 

Now if that had slo-mo I'd be feverishly counting my pennies, like a cat counting herring at the fish market.... :)

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1 hour ago, ghostdance said:

Hi Alan64

Nice alt-az mount and pillar in pic 1! What is it? 

Now if that had slo-mo I'd be feverishly counting my pennies, like a cat counting herring at the fish market.... :)

I think slo mo controls are over rated for alt az mounts. You end up needing to adjust both to track the object and actually nudging the scope is a lot easier in my experience. Plenty of people disagree with me though so it depends upon your preferences.

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If you got yourself a bigger scope you'd improve the views and increase interest in the hobby again. You would of course come to the same junction at some point where you have seen everything your skies will allow. At that point you would have to consider visiting darker skies, sketching, video astronomy or imaging. 80 mm scopes are great for grab and go but they simply cannot touch a 200+ mm scope for bringing objects to life.

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I plan on upgrading somewhere down the road. But I want to become great with this one first. Plus, $$ is always an issue for this guy. :)

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Hi Jon

 

I think we can all get like that at times, I'm very new to field also, I got my new scope before Christmas just gone and  althou I'm not bored I'm very frustrated about not being able to see things but my problem is Manchester weather, I think I've had 2 good nights where the sky is clear since I bought mine. I'm in a very polluted area so will definitely have to look into finding a dark site somewhere hopefully nearby. 

 

Good luck and keep at it. ?

 

Gary

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13 hours ago, ghostdance said:

Hi Alan64

Nice alt-az mount and pillar in pic 1! What is it? 

Now if that had slo-mo I'd be feverishly counting my pennies, like a cat counting herring at the fish market.... :)

Hello ghostdance,

Indeed it does have slow-motion controls.  My own is an Astro-Tech Voyager I; not the current Voyager II sold in the States, but the I.  I acquired it about ten years ago, and was able to get the pier-extension and eyepiece-tray at the time.  It's currently available as the GSO SkyView Deluxe, here in the States, and in Europe, and in black...

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p1753_TS-Optics-Alt-Azimuth-Mount-Deluxe-with-worm-gears---up-to-8-kg.html

This is how it appears currently... http://agenaastro.com/gso-skyview-deluxe-altaz-mount.html

The pier, which is good for mounting longer telescopes, like refractors, is only available from Andrews in Australia, and near the bottom of this listing...

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-content-section-10-guansheng.htm

That is, if they get any more in stock.  They do sell the mount with the pier included, I see.

The GSO mount is a Taiwanese clone of the Takahashi Teegul, and possibly the 150...

http://www.dark-star.it/astronomia-articoli-e-test/test-strumentali/takahashi-tg-150/

I've had great success in mounting my 150mm f/5 Newtonian on it...

6 f5-Voyager I.jpg

I like how the optical-tube is almost centered over the mount-head, and by virtue of the curved mounting arm. 

Stu has a point about the slow-motion controls, as it's quite the dance to track.  Still, the mount may operated in either manner.

In so far as its stability with a telescope of that size, I did take these afocal shots, through the eyepiece, and on the fly...

sampling.jpg

I do use the slow-motion controls, particularly when taking afocal photographs.

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20 hours ago, Jon the Newb said:

Alan64-I'm guessing I have the first one? Here's the link to what I have-http://www.ioptron.com/v/Manuals/8500_Cube-E_manual.pdf if that allows you to view it, maye you can tell if mine is intended for deep sky viewing, or both?

Yes, that's the same 80mm f/5 achromat as the Orion ST-80. It's branded "Sky-Watcher" as well, and they are configured primarily for low-power wide-field deep-sky. 

If you have the diagonal pictured in that manual, then that's a 45° Amici, and suitable only for daytime/terrestrial observations.  If you don't have one already, then for astronomy, observing at night, you will need a 90° star-diagonal...

http://agenaastro.com/gso-1-25-90-refractor-mirror-star-diagonal.html

You might also want to consider a 2x barlow...

http://agenaastro.com/antares-1-25-2x-barlow-lens-twist-lock-adapter-t-thread-ub2stl.html

It will double the power of any eyepiece when the barlow is inserted into the diagonal.  If I'm not mistaken, if you insert it into the focusser, then insert the diagonal and eyepiece, the power will be increased.  In that your 80mm f/5 has a focal-length of 400mm, the 2x barlow will transform that into an effective 800mm or greater.  In other words, the barlow will help in getting you closer to the objects of interest.

However, being that the refractor is a fast achromat, a considerable amount of false colour will be seen when viewing brighter objects, of which you may find objectionable.  Still, you can observe the dimmer objects up close, like the Trapezium star cluster of Orion.

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Totally agree with lots of folk here. I was becoming frustrated with my 150p in my light polluted back garden in Edinburgh. I eas actually thinking of sacking it off until I went to dark skies with an astronomy group. It totally changed my perception of the hobby. I quickly bought an 8" and then a 12" dob so I have to travel for dark skies. It makes it all the more worth it. Hope you find a solution to your problem mate

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I plan on upgrading somewhere down the road. But I want to become great with this one first. Plus, $$ is always an issue for this guy. :)

 

i just ordered the  90° Eyepiece from the link you sent alan64.  Thank you for that!

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It was my pleasure, Jon.  You may be surprised at how that diagonal will improve the views.  Also, it will not introduce additional false colour, being that it's a mirror rather than a prism.  If your refractor was the longer one as I had illustrated, I would've suggested the Celestron prism star-diagonal at that price-point.

Synta's 80mm f/5 achromat, whether branded Orion, Sky-Watcher or iOptron, has a great following.  Some users, if not many, replace the original 1.25" focusser with a 2", and for even wider views of the sky.

Now, a 10mm and 25mm came with the kit.  They should be Plossls(Synta), and practically identical to the ones I got with my Synta(Orion) 6" f/5 Newtonian...

Sirius Plossls2.jpg

To find the power of your eyepieces, you simply divide the focal-length of the refractor by the focal-length of the eyepiece...

400mm ÷ 25mm = (16x), and binocular-like.

400mm ÷ 10mm = (40x), and for a closer look, but not by much.

Depending on the quality of the main lens, or doublet, you should be able to realise 150x, per the 50x per inch standard on a night of average seeing, being that 80mm is 3.1".  Therefore...

400mm ÷ 150x = a 2.7mm eyepiece

Hmm, that's a tough one, but maybe not too tough.

Let's say that you already have in hand the 2x barlow that I suggested; wishful thinking on my part, eh?  :icon_mrgreen:

Normally, you would place the new diagonal into the focusser first, then the barlow into the diagonal, and then the eyepiece into the barlow.  Let's see what extra powers we get...

400mm ÷ (25mm ÷ 2x = 12.5mm) = (32x)

400mm ÷ (10mm ÷ 2x = 5mm) = (80x)

So, by combining the 2x barlow with the two eyepieces that you already have, you then have a total of essentially four eyepieces, for 16x, 32x, 40x and 80x.

Now, if you place the barlow into the focusser first, then the diagonal, and then the eyepiece, the 10mm and 25mm are approximately tripled(3x) in power...

400mm ÷ (25mm ÷ 3x = 8.3mm) = (48x)

400mm ÷ (10mm ÷ 3x = 3.3mm) = (121x)

So, by combining the 2x barlow, before the diagonal and after the diagonal, with your two eyepieces, you get a total of six powers, and the equivalent of six eyepieces...

...16x, 32x, 40x, 48x, 80x and 120x, and all out of that one barlow.  Later, you can add other eyepieces of different focal-lengths, and combine those with the barlow. 

Just one extra eyepiece thereafter will give you three new powers.

It's interesting to note that a barlow may be configured as described only with telescopes that use diagonals: refractors, Schmidt and Maksutov Cassegrains, and even classical Cassegrains.

Edited by Alan64
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You are really only limited as to what you see, by what you know. An 80mm scope is not an under-performer. Obviously objects when viewed in an 80mm scope wont look like objects when viewed in larger scopes. You have to understand the scopes limitations and your own expectations.

There is no reason what so ever why you should not seek out objects like the Ring Nebula (M57), Dumbbell (M27) etc. You should see them..........but they will be small. Open clusters,globular clusters etc will fine also.

There's not much you cant/wont see. Its just a case of "how" you see them. The main thing is if you are happy with the views. Obviously bigger aperture helps in how you see things.

A sweet upgrade from 80mm, would be 130-150mm (5-6"). If you can afford it..........200mm (8"). That will really open up the universe to you.

I went from 90mm to 130mm and then to 200mm.

 

Edited by LukeSkywatcher
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Luke, awesome response. I'm already looking forward to a bigger scope. 

In your opinion, in hindsight, and if you were me ?, would you go to the 130-150 range, or skip it anf jump into the 200?

jon

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To go larger in aperture, and for increased light gathering, you'll want a Newtonian, either a 6" f/5 on a tripod-type mount...

6 f5z7a.jpg

...or a longer 6" f/8 on a Dobson alt-azimuth.

This kit can be motorised for hands-free automatic tracking of any object, but without the go-to of your iOptron, and the mount is the same as my own pictured on the right above, albeit with mine having been modified...

https://www.optcorp.com/celestron-omni-xlt-150-newtonian-telescope-31057.html

$478.94 with free shipping to Aurora via UPS Ground.  The optical-tube would require rotation within its tube-rings whilst observing, and for a more comfortable focusser position, but not that difficult, not at all really, with a  6" f/5.  There are even economical ways to make rotation even easier, via a simple mod.

Or this...

http://www.highpointscientific.com/celestron-omni-xlt-150-newtonian-reflector-optical-tube-assembly-ota-31057ota

...with this... http://www.telescope.com/Mounts-Tripods/Altazimuth-Mounts-Tripods/Orion-VersaGo-II-Altazimuth-Telescope-Mount/pc/-1/c/2/sc/35/p/10105.uts

Together they would appear very similar to this...

Bresser-Messier-NT150S-Newtonian-reflect

...and easily moved about for short distances.  Just point the tube straight up, then grab and go.  A 6" f/5 is a bright, observationally-versatile and portable telescope, with magnifications ranging from a low and wide 19x, to 250x and beyond with the aid of 2x and 3x barlows.

Here's a comparison between an 80mm(3.1") refractor and a 150mm(6") Newtonian, in so far as the light-gathering apertures...

80mm to 150mm comparison.jpg

Note the small 7mm circle.  That's our natural telescope, the pupil of the human eye, and dark-adapted.  It gets us by from day to day, and even smaller then as it contracts from the sunlight, but at night it's not as good.  Telescopes are relatively enormous extensions of our pupils, which is why we all love telescopes.

Just how large of a "pupil" would you like? :icon_mrgreen:

Note also the secondary obstruction of the Newtonian, and at 50mm(2") in diameter.  Such reduces contrast and sharpness a bit, but it is what it is.  Still, the primary mirror of that Newtonian would collect close to if not more than four times the light of the 80mm refractor.  In addition, Newtonians are 100% false-colour free; no purple halos around brighter objects, in other words.

Then there are the "Dobsonians"...

A 6" f/8 Newtonian on a Dobson alt-azimuth... https://www.astronomics.com/6-f8-traditional-dobsonian-reflector_p20339.aspx

A 6" f/8 would excel under light-polluted skies, where  most of the visible objects are quite bright; the planets, the Moon, and the brighter stars.

An 8" f/6  Newtonian on a Dobson alt-azimuth... https://www.telescopesplus.com/products/zhumell-z8-deluxe-dobsonian-reflector-telescope

The Zhumell Z8 is the best kit sold in the States, and the same kit as the Revelation sold in the UK.  Both are made by GSO(Guan Sheng Optical).  They have machined two-speed focussers instead of the cast/molded one-speeds of the Orion and Sky-Watcher.  The trunnion system of the Z8, where the tube joins the mount, and the RACI finderscope, are also superior to those of the Orion and Sky-Watcher.  The Z8 costs a little more than the Sky-Watcher, and less than that of the Orion; odd, that, for the extras should set the Z8 at $100 more than the others.  Well, let's not tempt fate.

The inside of a Newtonian, which uses two mirrors, one large and one small, to produce an image...

newtonian_scope.jpg

Edited by Alan64

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There's a go-to type kit that's quite popular, if you'd miss that of the iOptron, and within the price-range of the preceding...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=681797&gclid=CMrFybTr19ECFQOewAoddaMCpQ&Q=&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051678882%2C&is=REG&A=details

The inside of a Maksutov, which uses a thick lens(meniscus) at the front, along with the secondary mirror, and the primary mirror at the rear...

makcass_scope.jpg

The focal-length of a 5" f/12 is quite long, as you can tell from that diagram, and 1500mm in length.  Whereas your 10mm affords a power of 40x with the 80mm refractor, let's see what that same eyepiece would produce with the Maksutov...

1500mm ÷ 10mm = (150x) 

Quite a difference, eh?  Maksutovs are primarily for moderate-to-high magnifications, and ideal for lunar and planetary observations, along with that of double-stars.  They are also capable of observing many deep-sky objects, as most DSOs are in fact small.  Of all the mirrored telescope designs, the Maksutov is the only design that has been described as being "refractor-like" in performance.

You can even mount the 80mm f/5 achromat on the Celestron SLT mount, if you'd like, but the 5" Maksutov might be a bit too large for the iOptron mount, conversely.

Incidentally, a refractor uses only two or three lenses, at the front, to form an image...

refractor_scope.jpg

Edited by Alan64

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On 23/01/2017 at 05:01, Jon the Newb said:

Luke, awesome response. I'm already looking forward to a bigger scope. 

In your opinion, in hindsight, and if you were me ?, would you go to the 130-150 range, or skip it anf jump into the 200?

jon

I'd probably jump straight to 200mm if you can afford it.

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On 1/22/2017 at 05:17, Alan64 said:

It was my pleasure, Jon.  You may be surprised at how that diagonal will improve the views.  Also, it will not introduce additional false colour, being that it's a mirror rather than a prism.  If your refractor was the longer one as I had illustrated, I would've suggested the Celestron prism star-diagonal at that price-point.

Synta's 80mm f/5 achromat, whether branded Orion, Sky-Watcher or iOptron, has a great following.  Some users, if not many, replace the original 1.25" focusser with a 2", and for even wider views of the sky.

Now, a 10mm and 25mm came with the kit.  They should be Plossls(Synta), and practically identical to the ones I got with my Synta(Orion) 6" f/5 Newtonian...

Sirius Plossls2.jpg

To find the power of your eyepieces, you simply divide the focal-length of the refractor by the focal-length of the eyepiece...

400mm ÷ 25mm = (16x), and binocular-like.

400mm ÷ 10mm = (40x), and for a closer look, but not by much.

Depending on the quality of the main lens, or doublet, you should be able to realise 150x, per the 50x per inch standard on a night of average seeing, being that 80mm is 3.1".  Therefore...

400mm ÷ 150x = a 2.7mm eyepiece

Hmm, that's a tough one, but maybe not too tough.

Let's say that you already have in hand the 2x barlow that I suggested; wishful thinking on my part, eh?  :icon_mrgreen:

Normally, you would place the new diagonal into the focusser first, then the barlow into the diagonal, and then the eyepiece into the barlow.  Let's see what extra powers we get...

400mm ÷ (25mm ÷ 2x = 12.5mm) = (32x)

400mm ÷ (10mm ÷ 2x = 5mm) = (80x)

So, by combining the 2x barlow with the two eyepieces that you already have, you then have a total of essentially four eyepieces, for 16x, 32x, 40x and 80x.

Now, if you place the barlow into the focusser first, then the diagonal, and then the eyepiece, the 10mm and 25mm are approximately tripled(3x) in power...

400mm ÷ (25mm ÷ 3x = 8.3mm) = (48x)

400mm ÷ (10mm ÷ 3x = 3.3mm) = (121x)

So, by combining the 2x barlow, before the diagonal and after the diagonal, with your two eyepieces, you get a total of six powers, and the equivalent of six eyepieces...

...16x, 32x, 40x, 48x, 80x and 120x, and all out of that one barlow.  Later, you can add other eyepieces of different focal-lengths, and combine those with the barlow. 

Just one extra eyepiece thereafter will give you three new powers.

It's interesting to note that a barlow may be configured as described only with telescopes that use diagonals: refractors, Schmidt and Maksutov Cassegrains, and even classical Cassegrains.

Hi Alan64,

 Maybe you can help me out with something else as well. I received my diagonal yesterday and I love how clear it is. So last night I did put my Barlow Lynn's directly into the focus or, followed by the  diagonal, followed by the IP's. The problem I had was everything was so large I couldn't focus on anything. Now I do only have a 3X Barlow, could that be the reason? Or am I doing something wrong? 

 Basically every star was just a gigantic circle and I couldn't even come close to getting it into focus.  Do I just need a 2X Barlow?

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